teamosil
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2009
- Messages
- 6,623
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- Location
- San Francisco
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- Male
- Political Leaning
- Liberal
Me? My "pay" was docked when Governor Quinn raised my state income tax by 67%. 'Course teacher pensions don't count. They're state-tax free. So it doesn't come of their pockets. My "pay" was docked last year when my real estate tax bill went up by 15%.
Yeah, it is. You spend all kinds of time and money getting a bs and usually a master's degree in education that is pretty much useless in other fields, you have a very specific kind of experience that isn't really useful in very many other fields. Somebody with a master's degree and 25 years of experience might find that their best option to transfer into another field would be to work in a Starbucks or whatever.
Teachers pay the same income taxes you do. Why should they have to shoulder an additional share of the state's financial problems on top of the share that everybody else takes on?
Regardless, your state income tax rate is only 5%... World's tiniest violin...
No, they do not. Teachers do not pay state income tax on their pensions.
Threw themselves on our mercy. There are lines around the block twice to be a teacher in the Chicago area. There is no shortage of teachers willing to take on the burdensome low-paying jobs that are teachers today. I wonder why that is? Could it be they're not low-paying? Nope. Can't be that. Could it be that it's not burdensome? Nope. Can't we that. Could it be that moms find it a wonderful way to work and raise a family? Nope. Can't be that.
So. Why then?
Me? My "pay" was docked when Governor Quinn raised my state income tax by 67%. 'Course teacher pensions don't count. They're state-tax free. So it doesn't come of their pockets. My "pay" was docked last year when my real estate tax bill went up by 15%, 70% of which goes towards schools.
My next-door neighbor, on the other hand, had his pay docked when he was laid off eight months ago. The guy across the street had his pay docked when he was forced to take a 5% pay cut or get a new job.
There's plenty of people sacrificing each and every day. That the Chicago Teachers' Union finds 16% over four years unacceptable is ludicrous. That they absolutely refuse to implement (in a trial program) evaluations that they themselves had a part in creating is ludicrous. That they absolutely reject merit pay is ludicrous.
But. It's all for the children.
So let's cut to the chase and talk about experience? Have you ever worked in a classroom? Or are you a well-intentioned theorist?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think IL just doesn't tax any pensions. It isn't like some exception for teachers, they just only apply the state's income tax to wages, right?
I've never been a teacher. I ran a program that worked with kids on probation for a while and spent maybe 10 hours a week in the schools, but that's about it. My parents were both teachers though. Why?
They pretty much tax all income except pensions. Teachers and other public sector employees get the largest bump from that because, of course, they have the largest pensions. My mom doesn't pay Illinois state taxes on her $13,000 Social Security she receives. My co-worker's wife doesn't pay Illinois state taxes on the $130,000 Illinois teacher's pension she receives either.
And as another issue, do "caring professions"--teachers, nurses, EMS's, and others--have a special obligation that, say, accountants and welders, don't have? What happens when "essential services" aren't provided? Do muncipal codes/job descriptions do enough to spell out the special obligations that some professions do have? Is it okay for all of a city's firefighters or teachers or cops to walk off the job the way accountants and welders do?
The vermin exploiting children
There IS a special obligation. I can only speak on behalf of firefighters, but it is against our oath to abandon the people we serve... EVER. We just don't do it. There have been many instances where entire departments have been shut down or barred by local governments from performing their duties in certain jurisdictions for political or budgetary reasons, but when the calls came in, those firemen still showed up in their civilian vehicles, ready to protect and serve... for no money.
There has only been one mass Fire Department strike in the US. It is an embarrassing stain in the history of our profession, a gross show of negligence which set FD's back horribly in terms of public trust for a long time. Incidentally, anyone wanna guess where it happened? Thaaaaaat's right. In Chicago.
There is nothing lower than somebody who insults teachers. I mean, really, school teachers. You hate school teachers? If you did poorly in school, that was your fault, not your teacher's fault. Get over it already.
What makes insulting teachers lower than insulting anyone else?
The vermin exploiting children
Chicago Teachers Union uses students in strike protest - YouTube
Where is the president on this? The clock is ticking.
That they are people who have made the commitment to sacrifice their career possibilities to the noble goal of educating our children. Duh. It's like insulting veterans or nuns or something. Just pathetic.
Yeah, I think it is about the money. And good for them. Again, teachers are a radically undervalued and underpaid profession. It is an intellectually and emotionally demanding jobs. It is one of the most important jobs in our society. It requires far more education than the typical job to get. And yet we pay for it like we pay for managing a Starbucks. It is a travesty and I am glad that these folks are willing to take the risks and accept the costs of fighting to correct that.
What evidence do you have that the teachers are failing?
There is nothing lower than somebody who insults teachers.
Sure, but only if your compensation is fair in the first place. Think about hourly wages. On average a teacher in Illinois work 5.5 hours and earn 71000 per year. Yes, they do some work after school, but they also got more vacation so I can still use the number of hours.Maggie - you strike me as a basically fair person. Do you think it is proper that if one is asked to perform substantially more labor, than one is appropriately compensated for that increase in work?
The 8th grade achievement scores and drop out rate are pretty bad.
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