Causes of unemployment in Canada???

[Mack]

Unemployment can be caused for various reasons. For starters, in Canada, the price for post secondary school have been increasing; keeping some students from even having the opportunity to attend. Although OSAP, grants, loans and bursaries can help the student, its not always enough. OSAP especially can be difficult in some families to pay back.
Another factor, especially for the generation of students just starting post secondary education now, is that there is a lack of of availability out there once we are to finish school. This generation is large, as once the baby boom generation. Although yes, many of them will begin to retire it is the older students in our generation that will reap the benefits.
Together, being uneducated or not, it will be tough for some people to find a job which will just increase the unemployment rate. Laziness isn't JUST the factor. Many jobs require post secondary school now. With the prices as their raising, not all will be ale to receive it.
HOWEVER, to all those out there believing its just due to lack of work ethic, laziness, or irresponsibility - its not always. Although those factors can play a factor, although often times MINIMAL. Its hard for some to pick up a new job, after being unemployed for awhile and uneducated.

 

[cannuck]

Mack: Sorry to see that your thread on this topic didn't get picked up.

I can tell you that out here in both SK and AB, if someone is unemployed they are either really useless idiots, super lazy or just plain unemployable.

HOWEVER: let's get back to the real issue you have raised: Post secondary education at accredited universities WAS, and IMHO really still should be about EDUCATION, not vocational training. We have an excellent system of community colleges to cover that aspect.

Now, let's get down to the brass tacks of two very different streams. University education is grossly over sold in this country. A good part of that comes from the institutions themselves that are, let's face it, incestuous bureaucracies that have enjoyed politically correct (actually opportune) access to taxpayer's back pockets for a very long time. We as parents, all want our kids to become doctors, lawyers and Indian Chiefs because that's what our (I am a boomer) parents were led to believe from depression era upbringing. Problem is, we have raised those kids in such a bubble that they reach the end of HS with no bloody idea what the world is about nor how it works (mean that literally as well as figuratively).

If you look at the issue of teachers in ON, you will find out that the province graduates so many in excess of the vacancies available, it exposes one of the problems with letting the inmates run the assylum. Universities simply want to become bigger bureaucracies (as that is THE measure of success to a bureaucrat) so that requires more cannon fodder (you could hardly call them/us clientelle). So, in their vocational training reality role, they simply crank out whatever they can. If we had any sense, we would combine the functions of the feds in both education and employment to ensure a good regional and national balance of programmes vs. market predictions. But, we don't. We just tell our kids to sign up at U of Whatever and the riches will follow. As an example: one of my kids spent 9 years to end up with a BSc, some languages and a DVM. She started her professional career making $5k/yr. more than her boyfriend who is a guard in a Federal Penetentiary. She may NEVER close that income gap in her lifetime - especially when you consider Fed hours of service, pensions and benefits vs. real world. My other kid is 12 years into the process, has a graduate degree (among four in total) and MIGHT go out into the world and get a job this year. Believe me when I say I didn't buy them 21 years of education with any intention of it leading to a "better job", and sure as hell not for the resultant income.

Now, on the other hand, I get to work with a lot of young people who have studied Engineering Technology and others who have apprenticed to trades. We are so busy trying to be good Americans, we seldom forget that ALL of the wealth that is created in any economy comes from adding value to a resource, or delivering a service needed to do so. We have mostly bought into this Wall Street idiocy of a "technology" or "service" economy. Problem is, if we abandon Main Street to do so, the economy just can't have millions of brokers, insurers, bankers, traders, consultants and the massive support staff of the speculative false economy without someone going out and actually WORKING for a frigging living.

THAT is why we have a reasonably good system of community colleges - but if you look at the market demands (remember, I live in a BOOM economy that didn't fall flat on its face in '09 because it was not totally dependent on the speculative economy of Wall Street and Bay Street) we never seem to have enough capacity to train all of those trades and technology grads to meet the actual demand. Instead we give our tax dollar and our kids to Universities to be graduated as mostly unemployable or under-employable suits with big student loans.

Oh, I forgot to mention: the kids who come from EET programmes to work with us will make 6 digit incomes usually in their second year due to a lot of travel and overtime. Not bad for two years of training. And, it is very unlikely that ANY of them will be without related work for their entire life if they so choose.

So, the real question is why do we send kids to an institution that is producing the wrong products in the wrong proportions?

Your turn.

 

[Carjosse]

Mack: Sorry to see that your thread on this topic didn't get picked up.

I can tell you that out here in both SK and AB, if someone is unemployed they are either really useless idiots, super lazy or just plain unemployable.

HOWEVER: let's get back to the real issue you have raised: Post secondary education at accredited universities WAS, and IMHO really still should be about EDUCATION, not vocational training. We have an excellent system of community colleges to cover that aspect.

Now, let's get down to the brass tacks of two very different streams. University education is grossly over sold in this country. A good part of that comes from the institutions themselves that are, let's face it, incestuous bureaucracies that have enjoyed politically correct (actually opportune) access to taxpayer's back pockets for a very long time. We as parents, all want our kids to become doctors, lawyers and Indian Chiefs because that's what our (I am a boomer) parents were led to believe from depression era upbringing. Problem is, we have raised those kids in such a bubble that they reach the end of HS with no bloody idea what the world is about nor how it works (mean that literally as well as figuratively).

If you look at the issue of teachers in ON, you will find out that the province graduates so many in excess of the vacancies available, it exposes one of the problems with letting the inmates run the assylum. Universities simply want to become bigger bureaucracies (as that is THE measure of success to a bureaucrat) so that requires more cannon fodder (you could hardly call them/us clientelle). So, in their vocational training reality role, they simply crank out whatever they can. If we had any sense, we would combine the functions of the feds in both education and employment to ensure a good regional and national balance of programmes vs. market predictions. But, we don't. We just tell our kids to sign up at U of Whatever and the riches will follow. As an example: one of my kids spent 9 years to end up with a BSc, some languages and a DVM. She started her professional career making $5k/yr. more than her boyfriend who is a guard in a Federal Penetentiary. She may NEVER close that income gap in her lifetime - especially when you consider Fed hours of service, pensions and benefits vs. real world. My other kid is 12 years into the process, has a graduate degree (among four in total) and MIGHT go out into the world and get a job this year. Believe me when I say I didn't buy them 21 years of education with any intention of it leading to a "better job", and sure as hell not for the resultant income.

Now, on the other hand, I get to work with a lot of young people who have studied Engineering Technology and others who have apprenticed to trades. We are so busy trying to be good Americans, we seldom forget that ALL of the wealth that is created in any economy comes from adding value to a resource, or delivering a service needed to do so. We have mostly bought into this Wall Street idiocy of a "technology" or "service" economy. Problem is, if we abandon Main Street to do so, the economy just can't have millions of brokers, insurers, bankers, traders, consultants and the massive support staff of the speculative false economy without someone going out and actually WORKING for a frigging living.

THAT is why we have a reasonably good system of community colleges - but if you look at the market demands (remember, I live in a BOOM economy that didn't fall flat on its face in '09 because it was not totally dependent on the speculative economy of Wall Street and Bay Street) we never seem to have enough capacity to train all of those trades and technology grads to meet the actual demand. Instead we give our tax dollar and our kids to Universities to be graduated as mostly unemployable or under-employable suits with big student loans.

Oh, I forgot to mention: the kids who come from EET programmes to work with us will make 6 digit incomes usually in their second year due to a lot of travel and overtime. Not bad for two years of training. And, it is very unlikely that ANY of them will be without related work for their entire life if they so choose.

So, the real question is why do we send kids to an institution that is producing the wrong products in the wrong proportions?

Your turn.

Well mainly because they get to choose what they go to university or get post-secondary education for. You are going to get who make the the smart choice and go into something that will allow them a high paying job which is not necessarily engineering. Half of it needs to be parents, don't let your children go and waste your money to get a worthless degree.

 

[cannuck]

Well mainly because they get to choose what they go to university or get post-secondary education for. You are going to get who make the the smart choice and go into something that will allow them a high paying job which is not necessarily engineering. Half of it needs to be parents, don't let your children go and waste your money to get a worthless degree.

I agree fully with what you are saying, I just have to sympathize with the general population that has been sold this bill of goods that you simply must have a university degree, or the university's version of it - and advanced degree to earn a decent living. It just isn't true. One of my good friends was a senior guy - nuclear engineering PhD - at the same facility where my eldest daughter did research for her dissertation. He was getting paid something like $45k a year 10 years ago!!!!!!!! (and I know he is not getting much more than that in Italy now). Geez, we START a new grad EE at more than that today. But, with a little bit of hard work, our trades guys and engineering technologists make a lot more than that.

As to the "worthless degree" part, that goes back to what I had said before. There is a place in this world for education for the sake of enlightenment. Unfortunately, we get confused between the academic part of post-secondary studies and the vocational aspect. Even though our kids are scientists, we have spent a lot more money on their non-science education (music mostly. also language) than all of their science degrees cost. Don't regret a minute or a penny of it.

 

[Carjosse]

I agree fully with what you are saying, I just have to sympathize with the general population that has been sold this bill of goods that you simply must have a university degree, or the university's version of it - and advanced degree to earn a decent living. It just isn't true. One of my good friends was a senior guy - nuclear engineering PhD - at the same facility where my eldest daughter did research for her dissertation. He was getting paid something like $45k a year 10 years ago!!!!!!!! (and I know he is not getting much more than that in Italy now). Geez, we START a new grad EE at more than that today. But, with a little bit of hard work, our trades guys and engineering technologists make a lot more than that.

As to the "worthless degree" part, that goes back to what I had said before. There is a place in this world for education for the sake of enlightenment. Unfortunately, we get confused between the academic part of post-secondary studies and the vocational aspect. Even though our kids are scientists, we have spent a lot more money on their non-science education (music mostly. also language) than all of their science degrees cost. Don't regret a minute or a penny of it.

Well the people I know with nuclear engineering make upwards of 500,000$/year and relating to the other thread and are part of the Power Worker's Union.

 

[Mach]

Well the people I know with nuclear engineering make upwards of 500,000$/year and relating to the other thread and are part of the Power Worker's Union.

That sounds really strange. Engineers don't typically make that much in any industry, even petroleum. Are you talking executives or stock option equivalent or something? Most engineers, senior, would likely make around $150K, maybe $250K if they are an executive...but then they aren't really in an engineering role (unless it's CTO or VP engineering, etc.) $500K for a salaried engineering job, either that unions is magical or I'm missing something?

 

[Carjosse]

That sounds really strange. Engineers don't typically make that much in any industry, even petroleum. Are you talking executives or stock option equivalent or something? Most engineers, senior, would likely make around $150K, maybe $250K if they are an executive...but then they aren't really in an engineering role (unless it's CTO or VP engineering, etc.) $500K for a salaried engineering job, either that unions is magical or I'm missing something?

They work at a nuclear power plant, everyone there gets paid a lot of money. Even if your the welder they contract you get that 500,000$ and part of it is the union. The Power Worker's Union is very powerful, and some make far higher.

 

[clownboy]

Just took a look around the average salary for nuclear engineers - $55,339 - $126,767. Here is contrasting private, and government employees.

 

[Carjosse]

Just took a look around the average salary for nuclear engineers - $55,339 - $126,767. Here is contrasting private, and government employees.

I'm using the numbers form the workers who work at a nuclear plant close to me. I don't really knwo about anywhere else. Do you guys have power unions?

 

[Mach]

They work at a nuclear power plant, everyone there gets paid a lot of money. Even if your the welder they contract you get that 500,000$ and part of it is the union. The Power Worker's Union is very powerful, and some make far higher.

Are you talking U.S. dollars? A contract welder making half a million in salary?

 

[Carjosse]

Are you talking U.S. dollars? A contract welder making half a million in salary?

Well since your welding in a nuclear plant you get paid a missive amount of money since it is very high skill or you can go to Alberta and weld pipelines in -40C weather.

 

[Mach]

Well since your welding in a nuclear plant you get paid a missive amount of money since it is very high skill or you can go to Alberta and weld pipelines in -40C weather.

I'm staggered, I suppose I learned a new bit of trivia today.

 

[SidewaysBear]

Changing world, in my parents day you could just walk into a bank and they could give you a job as a teller. Now you need quals and experience to get a job, even though service or efficiency isn't any better with it.

 

[cannuck]

Gee, I work as a contractor in several nuclear plants, and I can tell you for a fact we don't have to pay ANY union worker $500k a year. The guys on our crews make more money storm chasing than in the nukes. I DO know for a fact that featherbedding is on the most extreme level in nukes, thus why their cost make nuclear power in Canada and the US un-competitive with any other form of energy. Yeah, that's something to be proud of.