Mason-
My bad, now please address the state laws I posted about cops, IDs, and when they can require you produce them.
How many of that 15% are eligible to vote?
A solution in search of a problem, but a great way to disenfranchise the poor and minorities. Which, of course, is the point. Republicans don't even pretend otherwise.
Who knows why they filled out a voter registration form. Perhaps when they were getting their photo ID the form was in a pile of paper work and not knowing any better, they just filled out everything that was put in front of them.
Being registered and actually voting are two separate, independent actions.
I don't know the expense, but easily is the key, if someone's purpose is to commit fraud under penalty of the law.
The National Voter Registration Act of 1993 (NVRA) (42 U.S.C. § 1973gg), also known as The Motor Voter Act, was signed into effect by United States President Bill Clinton on May 20, 1993, however, compliance did not become mandatory until 1995. The legislation required state governments to allow for registration when a qualifying voter applied for or renewed their driver's license or applied for social services.
Implied? He pretty much said what I said - it is so small that it's statistically nil.
It makes sense, in your opinion, to prevent thousands of legitimate voters from casting ballots, in order to catch, in all probability, ZERO illegitimate voters? Could you explain your logic?
Yet another reason for voter ID laws.
"Raleigh-based group devoted to reducing the potential for voter fraud presented the N.C. Board of Elections on Friday with a list of nearly 30,000 names of dead people statewide who are still registered to vote."
The Voter Integrity Project compiled the list after obtaining death records from the state Department of Public Health from 2002 to March 31 and comparing them to the voter rolls.
NC group finds thousands of deceased people still registered to vote | NBC17.com
Yet another reason for voter ID laws.
"Raleigh-based group devoted to reducing the potential for voter fraud presented the N.C. Board of Elections on Friday with a list of nearly 30,000 names of dead people statewide who are still registered to vote."
The Voter Integrity Project compiled the list after obtaining death records from the state Department of Public Health from 2002 to March 31 and comparing them to the voter rolls.
NC group finds thousands of deceased people still registered to vote | NBC17.com
So, are you saying that if it doesn't happen to you it doesn't happen?Kal'Stang said:What "pile of paperwork"? When I went to get my license the only thing I had to fill out was the test to get the license and the form saying that I agree to have insurance on my car.
We're in a court of law now?Kal'Stang said:Besides, ignorance is not an excuse that is allowed in a court of law.
Is $300 the financial limit if someone was determined to circumvent the law?Kal'Stang said:Last I heard a fake ID cost $300.
Is there an incentive in there somewhere to not give out voter registration cards when you apply for or renew your license? They're post card sized and in a box by the thousands at the clerk's fingertips. It would be more plausible to just give one out to everyone (they can always say "I don't need one thanks") rather than try and circumvent the law using a 'loophole' for no reason whatsoever.Kal'Stang said:And what you fail to mention is that the States can establish procedures to register so long as they comply with the law. The voter registration must be available with the license due to the Motor Voter Act yes, and it is. However that does not mean that they have to give it to you unless you ask for it. Just a little loophole that you should know about before continueing this line of discussion.
How do you figure that it's "damn near impossible to catch a person commiting voter fraud"? Haven't various states produced voter registration lists with dead people and/or non-citizens on them? If they have those people identified from the voter registration rolls, that means they have their names, addresses and voter precincts identified. The next step should be obvious and rather simple. Check the actual voter roster at the poll against the list they have already compiled.Kal'Stang said:There is a difference between what he said and what you said. But I won't argue that inane point. And the only reason that it is "statistically nil" is for a couple of reasons. One is that it is damn near impossible to catch a person commiting voter fraud unless it is done by someone counting the votes or is part of the staff.
With the deep pockets of the Koch brothers, and the desire to quash liberals I guarantee that it's been studied and if they had of found something it would've been plastered everywhereKal'Stang said:Two, no one has really studied it to PUT statistics to it.
And the most important reason that voter obstructionist love to use ONLY allegations is that's all they have and refuse the reality that there's nothing there.Kal'Stang said:And the most important reason that those against these laws love to do is that they ONLY look at convictions and refuse to use common sense.
Or there is no one stuffing the ballot box.Kal'Stang said:Probably because they know damn well that its damn near impossible to catch someone stuffing the ballot boxes.
Yet another reason for voter ID laws.
"Raleigh-based group devoted to reducing the potential for voter fraud presented the N.C. Board of Elections on Friday with a list of nearly 30,000 names of dead people statewide who are still registered to vote."
The Voter Integrity Project compiled the list after obtaining death records from the state Department of Public Health from 2002 to March 31 and comparing them to the voter rolls.
NC group finds thousands of deceased people still registered to vote | NBC17.com
Funny how that always seems to pop up in the last paragraph of an article.Article said:The group says it doesn’t know how many of the 30,000 names were actually used to vote illegally, yet.
Alright, finally someone is listening to me.Article said:The next step is volunteers will match names with voting records.
So, are you saying that if it doesn't happen to you it doesn't happen?
Besides, we're talking about non-citizens, so unless you're a non-citizen, their situation would be a little different.
We're in a court of law now?
Is $300 the financial limit if someone was determined to circumvent the law?
How about a group discount? LOL!
Is there an incentive in there somewhere to not give out voter registration cards when you apply for or renew your license? They're post card sized and in a box by the thousands at the clerk's fingertips. It would be more plausible to just give one out to everyone (they can always say "I don't need one thanks") rather than try and circumvent the law using a 'loophole' for no reason whatsoever.
How do you figure that it's "damn near impossible to catch a person commiting voter fraud"? Haven't various states produced voter registration lists with dead people and/or non-citizens on them? If they have those people identified from the voter registration rolls, that means they have their names, addresses and voter precincts identified. The next step should be obvious and rather simple. Check the actual voter roster at the poll against the list they have already compiled.
With the deep pockets of the Koch brothers, and the desire to quash liberals I guarantee that it's been studied and if they had of found something it would've been plastered everywhere
And further, if it's impossible to catch someone now, how will one know that photo voter ID has or hasn't worked? Or that there has been voter fraud using a fake photo ID?
Tired old talking point. In every case that I have heard about ID laws being voted into law the states have provided a way to get that ID free. Can't exactly use this reasoning when you don't need a single penny to get that ID huh?
More paperwork. We were talking about the paperwork shuffle.Kal'Stang said:Legal non-citizens get treated the same in the DMV so whats your point?
Did anyone say any different? We were talking here, in this forum, about registration, not how it would play out in a court of law.Kal'Stang said:In case you didn't know it but registering to vote just by itself is also illegal if you are not a citizen. Not just voting.
My point was, what would be the financial limit that would deter someone from committing voter fraud.Kal'Stang said:I doubt you get group discounts from someone making fake ID's. The point was to show that while fake ID's might be easy to make they are not cheap to get. Which makes them hard to get.
I would say that it be more prudent to give them out to everyone rather than risk the allegation of circumventing federal law.Kal'Stang said:What incentive is there to give it out? IE They prolly are not given out due to simple lazyness.
LOL! Well you're going to have to help me out on this one. What is the difference, privacy wise, of a list of registered voters and a list of those who actually voted?Kal'Stang said:There is a big difference between scouring for registered voters and scouring to see if those people actually voted. The right to privacy prevents one and not the other..can you figure out which one?
I've asked in this thread, and others, why someone hasn't done exactly that before.Article said:The group says it doesn’t know how many of the 30,000 names were actually used to vote illegally, yet. The next step is volunteers will match names with voting records.
I don't think the Koch brothers really care what the liberals, or anyone for that matter, thinks of them. These are the guys whose political actions resulted in the term 'Swift Boating'.Kal'Stang said:Not if they feared that it would be used against themselves also.
Non-citizens can get approved photo ID, legally. That's been established beyond a doubt.Kal'Stang said:In order to get state issued ID for voting you have to show that you are a citizen of the US. A non-citizen could not come up with this proof.
I'm not questioning the effectiveness. There is no problem to combat, so therefore there will be no change.Kal'Stang said:As for the fake ID you are right..there are those that will use fake ID's and still get away with voter fraud. No system is 100% effective. If it was then there would be no murders, rapes, thefts etc etc. Voter ID's is only one link in a chain to prevent fraud and it should be treated as such. It should never be treated as an end all be all fool proof system.
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