• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Can you give me any reason why the top 50% shouldn't pay 85-90% of all taxes?

aociswundumho

aociswundumho

Capitalist Pig
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
21,831
Reaction score
9,558
Location
Bridgeport, CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Someone asked this question in another thread, and it's a good question, and I feel it deserves its own thread instead of getting buried.

Can you give me any reason why the top 50% shouldn't pay 85-90% of all taxes?
Click to expand...

1) Because then half the country can vote for endless government spending with no cost to themselves. That severs the link between citizenship and responsibility.

2) When most people don't pay taxes, they’ll always demand more programs and subsidies since someone else is footing the bill. That's why we have runaway spending and a $37 trillion national debt.

3) When you tax something you get less of it. Punishing the most productive members of society with nearly all the taxes shrinks the pie for everyone. And remember, economic growth compounds just like interest - shave even a little off yearly growth, and over decades you've destroyed trillions in future wealth:

Seemingly small differences in yearly GDP growth lead to large changes in GDP when compounded over time. For instance, in the above table, GDP per person in the United Kingdom in the year 1870 was $4,808. At the same time in the United States, GDP per person was $4,007, lower than the UK by about 20%. However, in 2008 the positions were reversed: GDP per person was $36,130 in the United Kingdom and $46,970 in the United States, i.e. GDP per person in the US was 30% more than it was in the UK. As the above table shows, this means that GDP per person grew, on average, by 1.80% per year in the US and by 1.47% in the UK. Thus, a difference in GDP growth by only a few tenths of a percent per year results in large differences in outcomes when the growth is persistent over a generation.
Click to expand...

4) Basic fairness. When a group splits a pizza, only a fool, or a communist, says everyone should chip in "according to their ability" like a goddamn Marxist instead of paying their share.
 
All spoken by an OP that has no concept of basic economics. Or even reality.

BTW, today, the top 50% of taxpayers paid 97% of all federal individual income taxes (FICA becomes a problem because of mixed components of tax category progressive and regressive by type.)
 
aociswundumho said:
Someone asked this question in another thread, and it's a good question, and I feel it deserves its own thread instead of getting buried.



1) Because then half the country can vote for endless government spending with no cost to themselves. That severs the link between citizenship and responsibility.

2) When most people don't pay taxes, they’ll always demand more programs and subsidies since someone else is footing the bill. That's why we have runaway spending and a $37 trillion national debt.

3) When you tax something you get less of it. Punishing the most productive members of society with nearly all the taxes shrinks the pie for everyone. And remember, economic growth compounds just like interest - shave even a little off yearly growth, and over decades you've destroyed trillions in future wealth:



4) Basic fairness. When a group splits a pizza, only a fool, or a communist, says everyone should chip in "according to their ability" like a goddamn Marxist instead of paying their share.
Click to expand...
Uh, because they earn 80-90% of the money?
Or do you think every individual should pay the same amount of income tax, whatever their income is?
 
OrphanSlug said:
All spoken by an OP that has no concept of basic economics. Or even reality.

BTW, today, the top 50% of taxpayers paid 97% of all federal individual income taxes (FICA becomes a problem because of mixed components of tax category progressive and regressive by type.)
Click to expand...
It gets worse! The top earners pay way more sales tax because they buy way more expensive stuff!
How unfair is that?
 
aociswundumho said:
Someone asked this question in another thread, and it's a good question, and I feel it deserves its own thread instead of getting buried.



1) Because then half the country can vote for endless government spending with no cost to themselves. That severs the link between citizenship and responsibility.

2) When most people don't pay taxes, they’ll always demand more programs and subsidies since someone else is footing the bill. That's why we have runaway spending and a $37 trillion national debt.

3) When you tax something you get less of it. Punishing the most productive members of society with nearly all the taxes shrinks the pie for everyone. And remember, economic growth compounds just like interest - shave even a little off yearly growth, and over decades you've destroyed trillions in future wealth:



4) Basic fairness. When a group splits a pizza, only a fool, or a communist, says everyone should chip in "according to their ability" like a goddamn Marxist instead of paying their share.
Click to expand...
The top 10% own 70% of all the wealth in the United States so they should pay 70% of the taxes to run the country. The benefit you receive from the government is in direct proportion to the wealth you have.
 
  • Pertaining to federal income taxes.

  • So as far as income tax the top earners are paying the bulk of taxes. According to data, the top 50% paid 97.7% of all federal income tax.
  • The top 1% paid 25.99% of the tax.

  • In 2020, taxpayers filed 157.5 million tax returns, reported earning nearly $12.5 trillion in adjusted gross income (AGI), and paid $1.7 trillion in individual income taxes.
  • The average income tax rate in 2020 was 13.6 percent. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 25.99 percent average rate, more than eight times higher than the 3.1 percent average rate paid by the bottom half of taxpayers.
  • The top 1 percent’s income share rose from 20.1 percent in 2019 to 22.2 percent in 2020 and its share of federal income taxes paid rose from 38.8 percent to 42.3 percent.
  • The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.7 percent of all federal individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.3 percent.
  • The 2020 figures include pandemic-related tax items such as the non-refundable part of the first two rounds of Recovery Rebates and the $10,200 unemployment compensation exclusion.
  • The newly released report covers Tax Year 2022 (for tax forms filed in 2023). The newest data reveals that the top 1% of earners, defined as those with incomes over $663,164, paid nearly 40.43% of all income taxes—marking a significant drop from the previous tax year, as the economy improved in the wake of the pandemic and economic shutdown. This was a drop of 5 points (12% lower) than in 2021 when the top 1% paid nearly 46% of all income taxes.
So how unfair is the tax system? The bottom 50 are paying almost none. You only wanted them to pay 85 - 90%. They are paying far more.
This is the problem with people who don't do the research.
 
craig said:
The top 10% own 70% of all the wealth in the United States so they should pay 70% of the taxes to run the country.
Click to expand...
Most of that wealth is holdings they don't get taxed on until they sell and there's a capital gain.

Take Warren Buffett for example. His net worth is about 151 billion, mostly holdings in Berkshire Hathaway. He'd only be taxed the capital gains when he sells shares.

His normal taxable income is his salary which is $100k per year.

But there is taxable income from his holdings. All the companies he's invested in do pay taxes.
 
aociswundumho said:
Someone asked this question in another thread, and it's a good question, and I feel it deserves its own thread instead of getting buried.



1) Because then half the country can vote for endless government spending with no cost to themselves. That severs the link between citizenship and responsibility.

2) When most people don't pay taxes, they’ll always demand more programs and subsidies since someone else is footing the bill. That's why we have runaway spending and a $37 trillion national debt.

3) When you tax something you get less of it. Punishing the most productive members of society with nearly all the taxes shrinks the pie for everyone. And remember, economic growth compounds just like interest - shave even a little off yearly growth, and over decades you've destroyed trillions in future wealth:



4) Basic fairness. When a group splits a pizza, only a fool, or a communist, says everyone should chip in "according to their ability" like a goddamn Marxist instead of paying their share.
Click to expand...

If you went out for a meal with a millionaire and a homeless person would you still expect everyone to pay the same at the end?
 
Imagine poor white trash Trump supporters convinced that the RICH are paying too much.

If you think I am exaggerating, wait till you see the demographic of those who will pop on here defending the notion that the rich are paying too much.

THAT will be your clue.
 
aociswundumho said:
Someone asked this question in another thread, and it's a good question, and I feel it deserves its own thread instead of getting buried.



1) Because then half the country can vote for endless government spending with no cost to themselves. That severs the link between citizenship and responsibility.

2) When most people don't pay taxes, they’ll always demand more programs and subsidies since someone else is footing the bill. That's why we have runaway spending and a $37 trillion national debt.

3) When you tax something you get less of it. Punishing the most productive members of society with nearly all the taxes shrinks the pie for everyone. And remember, economic growth compounds just like interest - shave even a little off yearly growth, and over decades you've destroyed trillions in future wealth:



4) Basic fairness. When a group splits a pizza, only a fool, or a communist, says everyone should chip in "according to their ability" like a goddamn Marxist instead of paying their share.
Click to expand...
Can you cite a source, please?
 
Integrityrespec said:
  • Pertaining to federal income taxes.

  • So as far as income tax the top earners are paying the bulk of taxes. According to data, the top 50% paid 97.7% of all federal income tax.
  • The top 1% paid 25.99% of the tax.

  • In 2020, taxpayers filed 157.5 million tax returns, reported earning nearly $12.5 trillion in adjusted gross income (AGI), and paid $1.7 trillion in individual income taxes.
  • The average income tax rate in 2020 was 13.6 percent. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 25.99 percent average rate, more than eight times higher than the 3.1 percent average rate paid by the bottom half of taxpayers.
  • The top 1 percent’s income share rose from 20.1 percent in 2019 to 22.2 percent in 2020 and its share of federal income taxes paid rose from 38.8 percent to 42.3 percent.
  • The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.7 percent of all federal individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.3 percent.
  • The 2020 figures include pandemic-related tax items such as the non-refundable part of the first two rounds of Recovery Rebates and the $10,200 unemployment compensation exclusion.
  • The newly released report covers Tax Year 2022 (for tax forms filed in 2023). The newest data reveals that the top 1% of earners, defined as those with incomes over $663,164, paid nearly 40.43% of all income taxes—marking a significant drop from the previous tax year, as the economy improved in the wake of the pandemic and economic shutdown. This was a drop of 5 points (12% lower) than in 2021 when the top 1% paid nearly 46% of all income taxes.
So how unfair is the tax system? The bottom 50 are paying almost none. You only wanted them to pay 85 - 90%. They are paying far more.
This is the problem with people who don't do the research.
Click to expand...
The bottom 50% owned approximately 2.5% of total wealth in 2025 so 2.3% of their wealth paid in taxes sounds a little high.
 
Peter said:
If you went out for a meal with a millionaire and a homeless person would you still expect everyone to pay the same at the end?
Click to expand...
An Ironworker I knew years ago hit the lottery for $2.something million. A couple years later I was working with one of his close buds who told me, "Jim's the only millionaire I know and he always owes me $50!"
 
aociswundumho said:
Someone asked this question in another thread, and it's a good question, and I feel it deserves its own thread instead of getting buried.



1) Because then half the country can vote for endless government spending with no cost to themselves. That severs the link between citizenship and responsibility.

2) When most people don't pay taxes, they’ll always demand more programs and subsidies since someone else is footing the bill. That's why we have runaway spending and a $37 trillion national debt.

3) When you tax something you get less of it. Punishing the most productive members of society with nearly all the taxes shrinks the pie for everyone. And remember, economic growth compounds just like interest - shave even a little off yearly growth, and over decades you've destroyed trillions in future wealth:



4) Basic fairness. When a group splits a pizza, only a fool, or a communist, says everyone should chip in "according to their ability" like a goddamn Marxist instead of paying their share.
Click to expand...
They already do. Top 20-25%. pay nearly 80% of all income tax collected. Almost 50% pay none and some even get money.
 
craig said:
The top 10% own 70% of all the wealth in the United States so they should pay 70% of the taxes to run the country. The benefit you receive from the government is in direct proportion to the wealth you have.
Click to expand...

Taxes are levied on income, not wealth.
 
Allan said:
Do you have a 401k? How much tax do you pay on your holdings? Do you have a savings account? How much tax do you pay on the balance?
Click to expand...
I write a check on my bank account to pay my income taxes. I pay income taxes on the 401k (now an IRA) as I withdraw from it. I am over 59 1/2.
 
aociswundumho said:
Someone asked this question in another thread, and it's a good question, and I feel it deserves its own thread instead of getting buried.



1) Because then half the country can vote for endless government spending with no cost to themselves. That severs the link between citizenship and responsibility.

2) When most people don't pay taxes, they’ll always demand more programs and subsidies since someone else is footing the bill. That's why we have runaway spending and a $37 trillion national debt.

3) When you tax something you get less of it. Punishing the most productive members of society with nearly all the taxes shrinks the pie for everyone. And remember, economic growth compounds just like interest - shave even a little off yearly growth, and over decades you've destroyed trillions in future wealth:



4) Basic fairness. When a group splits a pizza, only a fool, or a communist, says everyone should chip in "according to their ability" like a goddamn Marxist instead of paying their share.
Click to expand...
Right off the bat you miss the point, especially with numbers 1 & 2. Most people want to work. They just want to be able to get ahead from working and not perpetually feel poorer or stuck. If the distribution of wealth were not so grotesquely skewed, there would be very little need for governmental support.
 
craig said:
I write a check on my bank account to pay my income taxes. I pay income taxes on the 401k (now an IRA) as I withdraw from it. I am over 59 1/2.
Click to expand...
You pay on the income, not the wealth.
 
aociswundumho said:
It's not "distributed" it's earned, and you getting richer in a market economy doesn't make anyone else poorer.
Click to expand...
Money isn’t infinite. There’s only so much that can go around. When the Rich hoard their wealth, and avoid paying taxes, this concentrated more and more wealth to the top 1%. We have 4 decades of data showing this happening.
 
rahl said:
Money isn’t infinite. There’s only so much that can go around. When the Rich hoard their wealth, and avoid paying taxes, this concentrated more and more wealth to the top 1%. We have 4 decades of data showing this happening.
Click to expand...
Wealth (aside from property) isn't taxed. Income is.

And the wealthy aren't "hoarding" anything. Their wealth is invested in corporations and other assets.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom