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Can Trillion Dollar Coins Save the Economy?


If congress didn't want to raise the debt ceiling then it shouldn't have passed appropriations bills that require it. Either vote for both or vote for neither. It's stupid to support a budget then oppose raising the funds to enact it. I think everyone can agree on that point.
 
Grant said:
Apples, oranges and now bananas.
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Um. Well if you have a hard time with reading comprehension and keeping it all straight, which seems the case given that you are unable to process the basic information of the most minimal pages that you link to…not my issue.
 
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What budget ?

And exactly WHY do we need an ever increading debt ?
 
Khayembii Communique said:
The appropriations bills that have been
financing the government since 2011 and the last debt ceiling fiasco.
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Not a budget and you know it. Just a legislative device to allow perpetual spending.

Again, why do we need a ever increasing debt ?
 
Fenton said:
Not a budget and you know it.
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It is as good a stand in shorthand as any in the context he used it.

Try it, place those words “[t]he appropriations bills that have been financing the government since 2011 and the last debt ceiling fiasco” in the sentence in which he used the word budget.

It makes even more sense toward the point than just a plain old ‘budget’.
 
To mint two $1T coins using market value amounts of gold would require, roughly, 20% of all the gold ever mined.

P.S. That is a fundamental problem that people urging a return to the gold standard do not, I think, realize. The world has simply outgrown gold.

EDIT: Incidentally I am not certain if $2T worth of platinum has been mined, in total?
 
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Fenton said:
Not a budget and you know it. Just a legislative device to allow perpetual spending.

Again, why do we need a ever increasing debt ?
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Sure the appropriations bills aren't a budget in the legal sense (i.e. legally speaking there hasn't been a budget for a few years now) but in the informal sense they are budgeting Federal spending. In other words, you're completely avoiding my point by arguing the semantics of me using a word in an informal, non-legalistic way.

So let's clear this up. If congress doesn't want to spend money, then it should not approve the spending. Congresspeople should not be approving spending then opposing the fundraising to enact that spending that they approved. That's just stupidity. I don't care if you're a conservative or not. Conservatives that oppose raising the debt ceiling shouldn't be approving spending that requires raising the debt ceiling. It's simple as that.
 

I don't think the coin would need to be worth $1T in platinum value. It would simply be made of platinum and denominated at $1T.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
I don't think the coin would need to be worth $1T in platinum value. It would simply be made of platinum and denominated at $1T.
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I am pretty sure he was ignoring the seniorage value as a joke.
 
Jerry said:
So then why not make it out of dog food?
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I'm sure there's laws or rules as to what type of materials the Treasury can mint coinage out of. Of course if there aren't then you're correct in that the medium really doesn't matter. All that really matters is the denomination. Maybe wet dog food would work; they could press it then wait for it to dry. I don't think dry dog food would, though, unless they ground it up and added water or some kind of binding agent; too crumbly.

We could make it out of the ground up bones of Ted Stevens.
 
Jerry said:
So then why not make it out of dog food?
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The wording in the clause of the law in question, the one that allows the head of the Treasury to pick whatever denomination and design without requiring approval from Congress, names platinum explicitly as the material allowed. I do not have the link handy but it is in one of my posts earlier in the thread.
 
Has Obama ever shown interest in balancing a budget?

In fact they haven't even presented a budget and there appears no haste to do so. The last one Obama presented was voted down by everyone and he certainly didn't campaign on the importance of having a budget. In fact budgets would only get in the way of his cronyism spending, where billions are being pocketed.

My understand is that this is also contrary to the Constitution.

Obama budget defeated 99-0 in Senate - Washington Times
 
We agree on some of what you said (rather go with areas of agreement). I'd put it this way. Trillions of dollars have been pumped into the banking system to re-open the Wall Street casino. Money is trapped in the banking system for the reason you stated (interest on reserves) plus the demand for stuff just isn't there to justify investment. What I see occurring is eflation caused by unemployment and less stuff produced with simultaneous inflation in commodity prices caused by mal-investment created by Fed policy using only the monetary system to help the economy.

As for the trillion dollar coin, "unorthodox" methods in the face of the stupidity of not raising the debt ceiling is less disruptive.
 
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Khayembii Communique said:
I don't think the coin would need to be worth $1T in platinum value. It would simply be made of platinum and denominated at $1T.
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Yes, indeedy! That old fiat coinage. Money because we say it is. That is currently referred to as a "medium of exchange." It is always the same. As long as there is 0 % interest, there is manipulation. Undeniable manipulation. Will the end result be a much reduced usage of US Dollars.
 

Perhaps it's best to stop all this talk about a "debt ceiling" if it will always be ignored and out of control spending continues. Why even bother with the pretense that spending and borrowing will ever be remedied? It just makes asses out of everyone because we know it will never end until they close the doors.

Politicians like to punt, just as they did on this 'fiscal cliff' issue, and leave it for someone else smarter than them to try and fix it after they leave office.
 
I don't see the purpose of the debt ceiling in any case. If congress passes a budget then that should imply they also approve of funding the spending for that budget. That's why the debt ceiling used to be a non-issue, anyways.
 

What that article leaves out is that it what the GOP brought to the floor wasn’t a ‘budget’ in the sense. It was only the top line numbers, roughly 2000 pages short of an actual Congressional budget (it was only about 50 pages long).

In short a trap, a gimmick, a GOP election campaign stunt to sell as a “historic rejection of a sitting President”, roughly speaking a shuck and jive that would make P.T. Barnum proud. But certainly one that they have gotten a LOT of mileage out of, sucking in rubes like you. *shrug*
 
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Khayembii Communique said:
I don't see the purpose of the debt ceiling in any case. If congress passes a budget then that should imply they also approve of funding the spending for that budget. That's why the debt ceiling used to be a non-issue, anyways.
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Damn you took my response!!!
 
Khayembii Communique said:
I don't see the purpose of the debt ceiling in any case. If congress passes a budget then that should imply they also approve of funding the spending for that budget. That's why the debt ceiling used to be a non-issue, anyways.
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Any Ideas as to why the demo's have not passed a budget in over 4 years now?
 

I see no benefit to the "trillion dollar coin" concept and just see it as a attempt to mainstream the discussion of a ever increasing debt without any thought to the potential perils of being so leveraged up one good sell off or one credit downgrade could render this entire discussion pointless.

Imagine, were defeated by our own insatiable appetite for spending because we've come to expect the minimum from our politicians and 8 years of Obama has everyone convinced that Keynesian economics works in a global economy....when we buy are crap from China.

Hey is that a incoming thermal nuclear warhead ? Nope, the Chinese just dumped their bonds because we threatend to defend Taiwan and live up to our agreement to keep Taiwan Democratic.

Its stupid, stupid , stupid. Instead of trying to incentivize private sector growth Obama's sustained misery has everyone justifying making the US less secure.

Is the 3 oclock phone call Obama calling Wen Jia Boa or Putin when we hit 20T with yields climbing and uttering "execute order 66" ?

The order to dump all US bonds owned by the Chinese and the Ruskies will be "execute order 66" because I'm a huge Star Wars fan.

No one is putting up any effort to improve our economy, its supposed damage control from 2008 and thats BS.
 
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Jessica22 said:
As for the trillion dollar coin, "unorthodox" methods in the face of the stupidity of not raising the debt ceiling is less disruptive.
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Does anyone realize that a "trillion dollar platinum coin" would be about 39,000,000 pounds? :lamo On a serious note, are we to now believe that progressives are putting stock in non fiat currency?
 
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