Can or do "Atheists" have faith or beliefs?

[Dragonfly]

Those who don't believe in a god/gods are often accused of lacking faith. Or have some inability to believe.

For the sake of this thread can we broad-brush label ALL non-believers in god/gods as "atheists"?

I'm suggesting in this thread that atheists (per the above definition) actually have many beliefs and use some level of faith every single day.
I'm suggesting that in fact atheists and believers share many similar beliefs and faiths.

When I drive my car, or ride my motorcycle on public roads I have faith and believe that everybody else on the road will follow the rules and laws of the road.
I have faith and belief that my spouse is not cheating on me.
I have faith and belief I won't be fired from my job today.
I have faith and belief that the sun will rise everyday.
I have faith and belief my children will be safe and productive people.
I have faith and belief I won't be a victim of a terrorist attack today.

We can make a very long list of the things that every single person regardless of religion or non-religion believe in and have faith in.


So is it even reasonable to suggest that one who doesn't believe in, or have faith in a god lacks some innate ability to believe?
Or that they have no faith?

I once started a thread here that religious believers and non-believers have so much in common with each other that from a 10,000 foot view an observer wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Of course this angered a few of the religious folks here. They can't be similar in almost every way to an atheist. That's just crazy.

Or is it?

Also, there's no denying at all that some atheists have some truly wacky and outright insane beliefs.

So not believing in "your god" is far and away NOT a sign that atheists lack some ability to believe or have faith.
Is that a correct conclusion?

 

[NWO_Spook]

1. When I drive my car, or ride my motorcycle on public roads I have faith and believe that everybody else on the road will follow the rules and laws of the road.
2. I have faith and belief that my spouse is not cheating on me.
3. I have faith and belief I won't be fired from my job today.
4. I have faith and belief that the sun will rise everyday.
5. I have faith and belief my children will be safe and productive people.
6. I have faith and belief I won't be a victim of a terrorist attack today.

I would substitute 'faith and belief' for 'hope' in all of the above.

 

[Dragonfly]

I would substitute 'faith and belief' for 'hope' in all of the above.

What's the distinction between those words?

 

[NWO_Spook]

What's the distinction between those words?

I think there is more of a negative connotation in the usage, for example (the qualifications are hypothetical):

1. When I drive my car, or ride my motorcycle on public roads I hope that everybody else on the road will follow the rules and laws of the road. For in my experience they often don't.

2. I hope that my spouse is not cheating on me. Because a previous partner did.

3. I hope I won't be fired from my job today. Because the idiot running the place is sending us broke.

4. I hope that the sun will rise everyday. And I'm not evaporated by a supernova while I'm asleep.

5. I hope my children will be safe and productive people. Even though Timmy is a crack addict.

6. I hope I won't be a victim of a terrorist attack today. But some looney just attacked the mosque up the road.

I think the above may say more about me than it does about the abstracts within your OP.

 

[Dragonfly]

I think there is more of a negative connotation in the usage, for example (the qualifications are hypothetical):

1. When I drive my car, or ride my motorcycle on public roads I hope that everybody else on the road will follow the rules and laws of the road. For in my experience they often don't.

2. I hope that my spouse is not cheating on me. Because a previous partner did.

3. I hope I won't be fired from my job today. Because the idiot running the place is sending us broke.

4. I hope that the sun will rise everyday. And I'm not evaporated by a supernova while I'm asleep.

5. I hope my children will be safe and productive people. Even though Timmy is a crack addict.

6. I hope I won't be a victim of a terrorist attack today. But some looney just attacked the mosque up the road.

I think the above may say more about me than it does about the abstracts within your OP.

I feel if I can easily replace the words in question, and the statements retain their meaning, that it's a game of semantics.

Is "faith" in a religious context different than "faith" in a non-religious context?

 

[NWO_Spook]

I feel if I can easily replace the words in question, and the statements retain their meaning, that it's a game of semantics.

Is "faith" in a religious context different than "faith" in a non-religious context?

Well, yes if it carries the degree of uncertainty I presented in my answers above, don't you think? 'Faith' in the existence of a god, as we have seen repeatedly, is somewhat of an absolute in many individuals.

 

[Dragonfly]

Well, yes if it carries the degree of uncertainty I presented in my answers above, don't you think? 'Faith' in the existence of a god, as we have seen repeatedly, is somewhat of an absolute in many individuals.

Faith in the sun rising each day is an absolute isn't it?

 

[NWO_Spook]

Faith in the sun rising each day is an absolute isn't it?

Well, yes and no, as it depends upon the perspective. Sure the sun will rise, but the uncertainty lies in 'will it rise for me?' For I may die through the night.

Unless of course it 'goes nova' through the night and evaporates the planet, therefore there will be no sunrise on Earth, but that possibility is remote at this stage of the Sun's life cycle.

 

[Dragonfly]

Well, yes and no, as it depends upon the perspective. Sure the sun will rise, but the uncertainty lies in 'will it rise for me?' For I may die through the night.

Okay, lets do this:

Is there any instance where an atheist has, or uses faith/belief in their daily life, or ever for that matter?

 

[Tim the plumber]

Those who don't believe in a god/gods are often accused of lacking faith. Or have some inability to believe. ?

OK Mr arrogant, I will explain very slowly for those who have never thought before;

1, Take the accused out of there. There is nothing negative about not believing in the Great Sky Daddy. I have a brain. I think for myself. You clearly have never done such a thing.

2, Obviously I believe things. I believe I am currently writing on this keyboard. Your ideas are utterly foolish. Grow up!

3, I don't wish to use faith to make decisions. I try to only believe stuff that is reasonable to believe. You know, backed by evidence etc.

Do not insult those who are better at thinking than you.

 

[NWO_Spook]

Okay, lets do this:

Is there any instance where an atheist has, or uses faith/belief in their daily life, or ever for that matter?

I may be a little pessimistic for this exercise. Ok, I believe the next time I pick up my electric guitar, I will play some cool Blues licks, because I always do.

 

[Tim the plumber]

What's the distinction between those words?

That you are too stupid to not understand the difference means that you are unsuitable to sit on a jury.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Okay, lets do this:

Is there any instance where an atheist has, or uses faith/belief in their daily life, or ever for that matter?

I try not to, it would make me as stupid in my own mind.

 

[Dragonfly]

OK Mr arrogant, I will explain very slowly for those who have never thought before;

1, Take the accused out of there. There is nothing negative about not believing in the Great Sky Daddy. I have a brain. I think for myself. You clearly have never done such a thing.

2, Obviously I believe things. I believe I am currently writing on this keyboard. Your ideas are utterly foolish. Grow up!

3, I don't wish to use faith to make decisions. I try to only believe stuff that is reasonable to believe. You know, backed by evidence etc.

Do not insult those who are better at thinking than you.

Ummm....is it possible you've mis-read something in the OP?

 

[Tim the plumber]

Ummm....is it possible you've mis-read something in the OP?

No. It is obvious that you wish to frame this exchange in a way that presupposes that there is something deficient in Atheists.

Needing to believe in fairies because the world would be far too scary otherwise is deficient in both mental capacity and moral capacity.

 

[Dragonfly]

I may be a little pessimistic for this exercise. Ok, I believe the next time I pick up my electric guitar, I will play some cool Blues licks, because I always do.

So you admit to having an ability to believe, or have faith?

Nothing at all stated about the criteria or requirements you demand for such, just that the ability is there?

 

[Dragonfly]

No. It is obvious that you wish to frame this exchange in a way that presupposes that there is something deficient in Atheists.

Needing to believe in fairies because the world would be far too scary otherwise is deficient in both mental capacity and moral capacity.

Do you NOT get that I am a non-believer???

You in fact might be the ignorant one here.

 

[NWO_Spook]

So you admit to having an ability to believe, or have faith?

Yes, but it is qualified by experience.

Nothing at all stated about the criteria or requirements you demand for such, just that the ability is there?

In the instance provided, the ability to believe is there owing to experience, so that may interfere with the conclusion/demonstration.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Do you NOT get that I am a non-believer???

You in fact might be the ignorant one here.

So why are you couching the argument in terms of accused and admit?

 

[NWO_Spook]

Do you NOT get that I am a non-believer???

I do actually, but I'm a little unsure of the 'truth' of this exercise, if indeed, there is one.

 

[Dragonfly]

So why are you couching the argument in terms of accused and admit?

Dude, you have a serious chip on your shoulder right now. I don't know what your issue is.

I am asking questions. Answer them without accusing me of things you OBVIOUSLY know nothing about.

You got off on a VERY WRONG assumption.

Back up and start again.

Otherwise go find another thread to get all flustered in.

 

[Dragonfly]

I do actually, but I'm a little unsure of the 'truth' of this exercise, if indeed, there is one.

Don't make seeking for some "truth" any harder than it is.

Can atheists have faith and/or belief in things? Anything?

Simple as that. Why must it be anything else?

Have you never heard someone of religious faith accusing a non-believer of "lacking faith"?

Sure, they lack faith in a god/gods. For good reason.

That doesn't mean they don't have faith. It only means they don't have faith in a god. Right?

 

[NWRatCon]

I would substitute 'faith and belief' for 'hope' in all of the above.

I have always detested the use of the term "believer", or "person of faith", because it implies an otherness and superiority. I have very strong beliefs - in physics, math, science, in legal norms and rational thought. (Faith, by the way, also implies disappointment or disillusion when the faith is unrewarded or disproved.) But, I completely agree that, on an everyday basis, we order our lives, whether religious or not, on common expectations or beliefs - in gravity, for example, in cause and effect. Indeed, when one behaves contrary to those beliefs, we label that person insane (apparently unless it involves climate change).

Humans have the capacity for rationality and irrationality. This is exhibited on a daily basis in ways large and small. How many of us brush our teeth daily to avoid cavities? We believe one is related to the other, and that is rational. Yet, we may, consciously or unconsciously, avoid stepping on a crack in the sidewalk in deference to a childhood rhyme. The more one lives their life in accordance with the rational side, the more we describe them as "grounded". The more the irrational side affects them, we apply a series of labels - quirky, eccentric, kooky, nuts, Insane. This is also true for religious beliefs - mainstream, fundamentalist, extremist, fanatic. (We do, however, exhibit a great deal of tolerance if those beliefs happen to coincide with our own.)

I have a very strong set of beliefs and I adhere to them faithfully. God just happens to not be one of them.

 

[Dragonfly]

I have always detested the use of the term "believer", or "person of faith", because it implies an otherness and superiority. I have very strong beliefs - in physics, math, science, in legal norms and rational thought. (Faith, by the way, also implies disappointment or disillusion when the faith is unrewarded or disproved.) But, I completely agree that, on an everyday basis, we order our lives, whether religious or not, on common expectations or beliefs - in gravity, for example, in cause and effect. Indeed, when one behaves contrary to those beliefs, we label that person insane (apparently unless it involves climate change).

Humans have the capacity for rationality and irrationality. This is exhibited on a daily basis in ways large and small. How many of us brush our teeth daily to avoid cavities? We believe one is related to the other, and that is rational. Yet, we may, consciously or unconsciously, avoid stepping on a crack in the sidewalk in deference to a childhood rhyme. The more one lives their life in accordance with the rational side, the more we describe them as "grounded". The more the irrational side affects them, we apply a series of labels - quirky, eccentric, kooky, nuts, Insane. This is also true for religious beliefs - mainstream, fundamentalist, extremist, fanatic. (We do, however, exhibit a great deal of tolerance if those beliefs happen to coincide with our own.)

I have a very strong set of beliefs and I adhere to them faithfully. God just happens to not be one of them.

THANK YOU!!!!


It's not that atheists don't have an inability to have faith or belief.

It's just that when they don't it's because supporting evidence isn't available to trigger it.

Right?

 

[NWO_Spook]

Don't make seeking for some "truth" any harder than it is.

Can atheists have faith and/or belief in things? Anything?

Well, in light of NWRatCon's explanation below, yes, but as I've stated, my beliefs have qualifications based upon experience & science. Can the believer in the supernatural claim these qualifications?

Simple as that. Why must it be anything else?

Have you never heard someone of religious faith accusing a non-believer of "lacking faith"?

Yes, and I don't find that problematic. I believe in gravity, but my belief is not based upon faith, however if faith can be defined as complete trust or confidence in someone or something, then sure, I have faith that gravity will remain a natural force.

Sure, they lack faith in a god/gods. For good reason.

That doesn't mean they don't have faith. It only means they don't have faith in a god. Right?

Agreed, I was thinking a faith in terms of 'believing in something without proof'. Perhaps a definition in the OP would have been beneficial, for I view faith in God and faith in gravity somewhat differently.