CA leading again: ban on plastic grocery bags

[Steve Case]

Probably either because the company that made them was operating at a loss or they just lied about them being recycled plastic. The reality is you have no idea what those sheets were made out of.

Instead of sheets made out of recycled plastic would cost about 5 or 6 times the cost of a set of sheets get out of plastic that wasn't recycled. Just because the recycling process takes a lot of money to operate.

The recycling center closed down probably because it's just an expense it's a processing center for things to be taken to the dump. I'm betting 98% of the stuff that was brought to them went right to the dump. Recycling really is a scam.

The companies that aren't a scam are the ones that are called scrap before recycling was called recycling was called scrap metal

Yeah chickens will eat anything. I've seen people use all food waste to make a black soldier fly larvae farm to feed their chickens.

"Recycling really is a scam."

Can't prove it, but I think the contents of our recycle bin goes straight to the land fill.

 

[eohrnberger]

I wonder how this idea occurred. I'd love to more about this!

My wife's mother's church does it, or did it (not sure), she's not participating / supporting anymore since her fall / hip incident.

 

[nota bene]

I have not tried this with corn tortillas.
My mother in law would soften the corn tortillas for enchiladas in the juice left over from cooking the meat.

I finally replaced my old microwave a couple of months ago and am still having to experiment with the new one, but I used to give each corn tortilla 30 seconds before adding filling. The problem for me with just using the juice was making the tortillas soggy. If you don't do something, you can't roll them without their breaking (or at least I can't!). I will report back on what I learn this weekend. I'm using flour tortillas mainly but prefer corn for myself, so I hope I have leftover filling, just a bit, for me.

 

[nota bene]

Really? Hmmm, I eat the entire apple except the stem. Been doing it for years.
Google Search says you'd have to chew a whole lot of seeds in order to be poisoned.

Maybe so if you're human.

 

[nota bene]

My wife's mother's church does it, or did it (not sure), she's not participating / supporting anymore since her fall / hip incident.

Well, this turns out to be a thing, and I found all sorts of instructions and YouTubes. https://thesavvyage.com/turn-your-plastic-bags-into-sleeping-mats/

 

[Craig234]

Can't prove it, but I think the contents of our recycle bin goes straight to the land fill.

It appears that the recycling industry might well have a 'scam' side and be greatly exaggerated, but that doesn't mean it isn't still a lot better than not having the recycling it does. There are plenty of investigations and documentaries.

 

[eman623]

Jesus, read the article:

"State Sen. Catherine Blakespear, one of the bill’s supporters, said people were not reusing or recycling any plastic bags. She pointed to a state study that found that the amount of plastic shopping bags trashed per person grew from 8 pounds (3.6 kilograms) per year in 2004 to 11 pounds (5 kilograms) per year in 2021."

I've lived in CA for almost a decade, and I can't remember a single time seeing anyone bringing those 10 cent plastic bags with them to bag their groceries. But I see plenty of people walking out with them.

I bring them to the store and reuse them all the time.

In fact, when the new ban goes into effect and my reusable bag collection dries up (the bags do eventually wear out), I plan to just buy more on Amazon.

FU California.

 

[Noodlegawd]

I bring them to the store and reuse them all the time.

In fact, when the new ban goes into effect and my reusable bag collection dries up (the bags do eventually wear out), I plan to just buy more on Amazon.

FU California.

There are far better options for reusable grocery bags than those crappy plastic ones you currently get for 10 cents. We've been using the same 5 bags we bought for a dollar each at a grocery store 10 years ago. Not only do they last much longer (and therefore have less environmental impact), but they also hold more and stand up on their own.

 

[eman623]

There are far better options for reusable grocery bags than those crappy plastic ones you currently get for 10 cents. We've been using the same 5 bags we bought for a dollar each at a grocery store 10 years ago. Not only do they last much longer (and therefore have less environmental impact), but they also hold more and stand up on their own.

That's a good start but You'll have to us those 5 bags for about 50 years to have the same carbon footprint of even single use bags. Let alone semi reusable bags like I have.

Besides I like to walk to the store(which also reduces my carbon footprint) and I like how my bags can be collapsed and tucked into my man- purse

 

[Noodlegawd]

That's a good start but You'll have to us those 5 bags for about 50 years to have the same carbon footprint of even single use bags.

I'm nearly certain that is false. Do you have a source for that?

The figure I've seen is comparing cotton bags to single use plastic, and they said you had to reuse the 50-100 TIMES, not for 50 years.

 

[eman623]

I'm nearly certain that is false. Do you have a source for that?

Yes.

You'll Need To Re-Use That Cotton Shopping Bag 7,100 Times For It To Make Environmental Sense

Companies left and right are banning plastic straws because ocean critters are important - with no evidence getting rid of plastic straws is really helping marine critters at all. While I shake my head at that, I am not surprised. The free market has spoken, companies respond to what consumers...

www.acsh.org

edit - and lest you dismiss this because you don't trust the ACSH, this figure comes from a Danish meta study. See pgs 17-18.

https://www2.mst.dk/udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-73-4.pdf

The figure I've seen is comparing cotton bags to single use plastic, and they said you had to reuse the 50-100 TIMES, not for 50 years.

Looks like I was off by about 25%. Assuming you go to the store every other day (187 shopping trips per year), those cloth bags will actually pay for themselves, environmentally speaking, in only 37 years.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Yes.

You'll Need To Re-Use That Cotton Shopping Bag 7,100 Times For It To Make Environmental Sense

Companies left and right are banning plastic straws because ocean critters are important - with no evidence getting rid of plastic straws is really helping marine critters at all. While I shake my head at that, I am not surprised. The free market has spoken, companies respond to what consumers...

www.acsh.org

edit - and lest you dismiss this because you don't trust the ACSH, this figure comes from a Danish meta study. See pgs 17-18.

https://www2.mst.dk/udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-73-4.pdf

Looks like I was off by about 25%. Assuming you go to the store every other day (187 shopping trips per year), those cloth bags will actually pay for themselves, environmentally speaking, in only 37 years.

The result in your source shows 2 times of reuse for climate change effect and only 35 times for all environmental effects for the very common polyester bags sold at grocery stores.

The worst option (organic cotton) is still only 149 times (about 3 years) of reuse for climate change purposes, which is a far cry from your original claim.

 

[Gordy327]

So no paper bags and no plastic bags. LOL. How stupid can the left get.

No needless waste or pollution from said bags either. More durable reusable or recycled bags which can be used over and over again. Seems like a good and efficient idea. Besides, paper and plastic is still around. Stores may simply charge an additional fee for using them.

 

[Mach]

I love bringing my own bags, and it's out of laziness.

Bigger bags are far easier to load, unload, and carry.
When unloading large bags you can set cold bags down in front of the fridge, and easily reach in and unload them straight to the fridge.
You can do the same with pantry items.

I also frankly, prefer bagging too, so I can ensure they are bagged based on where I will unload them, although I don't mind either way, obviously.

It's not that hard to remember once the habit is established.

 

[Gordy327]

I love bringing my own bags, and it's out of laziness.

Bigger bags are far easier to load, unload, and carry.
When unloading large bags you can set cold bags down in front of the fridge, and easily reach in and unload them straight to the fridge.
You can do the same with pantry items.

I also frankly, prefer bagging too, so I can ensure they are bagged based on where I will unload them, although I don't mind either way, obviously.

It's not that hard to remember once the habit is established.

Agreed. I do the same. I don't trust store baggers. They tend to just throw everything in willy nilly, not caring if certain things are crushable or not. That's why I prefer the self checkouts too. I can do it faster and better.

 

[eman623]

The result in your source shows 2 times of reuse for climate change effect and only 35 times for all environmental effects for the very common polyester bags sold at grocery stores.

Are you saying those are the bags you use? What does that look like?

The worst option (organic cotton) is still only 149 times (about 3 years) of reuse for climate change purposes, which is a far cry from your original claim.

I did not say the 7100 was just climate change. If you look on the next page, you see where the 7100 comes. from



That is the overall environmental performance, not just the climate change part. I see no reason to limit the minimum reuse number to just climate change. It takes water and land and fertilizer and trucks and machines to grow, harvest and manufacture cloth bags. All of that needs to go into a realistic comparison IMO.

In any case, I don't care what you use. If you like the PET bags, use them. Just be aware what their honest environmental footprint is. Or not. I certainly don't worry about that.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Are you saying those are the bags you use? What does that look like?


I did not say the 7100 was just climate change. If you look on the next page, you see where the 7100 comes. from

View attachment 67536310

That is the overall environmental performance, not just the climate change part. I see no reason to limit the minimum reuse number to just climate change. It takes water and land and fertilizer and trucks and machines to grow, harvest and manufacture cloth bags. All of that needs to go into a realistic comparison IMO.

In any case, I don't care what you use. If you like the PET bags, use them. Just be aware what their honest environmental footprint is. Or not. I certainly don't worry about that.

Here's what you said:

"That's a good start but You'll have to us those 5 bags for about 50 years to have the same carbon footprint of even single use bags."

The data you provided indicated that I have to use them TWO times to have the same carbon footprint. I don't know why you would use the worst example, and then move the goalposts from "carbon footprint" to the entire supposed environmental impact (which was only 35 times (i.e., less that a year) for the PET bags).

 

[eman623]

Here's what you said:

"That's a good start but You'll have to us those 5 bags for about 50 years to have the same carbon footprint of even single use bags."

The data you provided indicated that I have to use them TWO times to have the same carbon footprint. I don't know why you would use the worst example, and then move the goalposts from "carbon footprint" to the entire supposed environmental impact (which was only 35 times (i.e., less that a year) for the PET bags).

I was referring to the overall impact, and if saying "carbon footprint" limited that, then I respectfully withdraw that and replace it with "environmental impact".

And for the record I did not use the worst example which are organic cotton bags. I used the 2nd worst example, just regular cotton bags. They still require 37 years of use to match the environmental impact of a single use LPDE bag. Organic cotton bags would require mode than a century to recoup the costs.

 

[Noodlegawd]

I was referring to the overall impact, and if saying "carbon footprint" limited that, then I respectfully withdraw that and replace it with "environmental impact".

And for the record I did not use the worst example which are organic cotton bags. I used the 2nd worst example, just regular cotton bags. They still require 37 years of use to match the environmental impact of a single use LPDE bag. Organic cotton bags would require mode than a century to recoup the costs.

Then don't use them. Use polyester or polypropylene bags, like they sell at pretty much every grocery store.

 

[eman623]

Then don't use them. Use polyester or polypropylene bags, like they sell at pretty much every grocery store.

I like to use thick 1.2mm polyethylene bags. The ones I get are even gusseted so they stand up by themselves.

I hope this meets with your approval.