changintimes
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changintimes said:Bush sent 164 people to the death penalty in Texas, a record for a United States governer.
Do you think Bush may have made a mistake in deciding that all of the 164 people were guilty of the crime as charged?
Do you think Bush made a mistake about WMDs in Iraq?
I'd say yes and yes.
mistermain said:Bush didn't decide that they were guilty. The juries that convicted them decided that they were guilty.
changintimes said:that's nice, but bush, as governer, had the power to stop an execution, but he did not,
changintimes said:Bush sent 152 people to the death penalty in Texas, the highest number for a United States governer in recent history.
Statistically, 7% of death row prisoners are found to be innocent.
Do you think Bush may have made a mistake in deciding that all of the 152 people were guilty of the crime as charged?
Do you think Bush made a mistake about WMDs in Iraq?
I'd say yes and yes.
How can you tell a whiny leftie?Canuck said:only 152
he sent 1000+ young innocent amereicans to their death in IRAQ
why so much apathy in america today
cnredd said:How can you tell a whiny leftie?
When they show examples of Bush-bashing in a thread that has nothing to do with what is being discussed...:roll:
I --knew-- there was a reason I voted for him!!changintimes said:Bush sent 152 people to the death penalty in Texas, the highest number for a United States governer in recent history.
Bush didnt decide this.Do you think Bush may have made a mistake in deciding that all of the 152 people were guilty of the crime as charged?
Not in the slightestDo you think Bush made a mistake about WMDs in Iraq?
Of course you would.I'd say yes and yes.
changintimes said:that's nice, but bush, as governer, had the power to stop an execution, but he did not,
You're right.aps said:Come on, Cnredd, it does have something to do with this thread.
There is absolutely NO necessary relationship between those two thoughts.It goes to Bush's concern about sending anyone to death. For some people, it lends credence to their assertion that Bush doesn't care about the lives of other people.
So what?I think the death penalty should be eliminated. It costs taxpayers more money to have it in place than to just put someone in jail for the rest of his/her life. Trust me on this.
aps said:It costs taxpayers more money to have it in place than to just put someone in jail for the rest of his/her life. Trust me on this.
C.J. said:I do not trust you on this, feel free to try and prove it.
aps said:You got it:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7#financial facts
Scroll down to read "Financial Facts About the Death Penalty"
http://www.uscourts.gov/dpenalty/2TABLE.htm
http://www.kslegislature.org/postaudit/testimony/deathpenalty.htm
M14 Shooter said:If so - so what?
If the objective behind punishing criminals is to deter people from commiting crime, to remove criminals from sociert because they are adanger, and to give them what they 'deserve' -- how is the cost of a given punishment an argument agianst that punshment? The objective is to punish the criminal appropriately, not save money.
If a criminal -should- die for his crime, then shouldnt the costs be borne?
aps said:You got it:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7#financial facts
Scroll down to read "Financial Facts About the Death Penalty"
http://www.uscourts.gov/dpenalty/2TABLE.htm
http://www.kslegislature.org/postaudit/testimony/deathpenalty.htm
C.J. said:Let's just take one item of one of your sources (Feel free to choose another if you so desire), at the the first link.
I chose this one at random, but again feel free to choose another.
Kansas Study Concludes Death Penalty is Costly Policy
In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases. The study counted death penalty case costs through to execution and found that the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million. Non-death penalty cases were counted through to the end of incarceration and were found to have a median cost of $740,000. For death penalty cases, the pre-trial and trial level expenses were the most expensive part, 49% of the total cost. The costs of appeals were 29% of the total expense, and the incarceration and execution costs accounted for the remaining 22%. In comparison to non-death penalty cases, the following findings were revealed:
Notice first that LWOP was not utilized in place of the DP. "Non-death penalty cases were counted through to the end of incarceration and were found to have a median cost of $740,000." BTW they do not discuss what types of non DP cases these were do they?
Notice also that the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million. I will accept that with no argument, but will tell you it is low. The national average is approximately $1.5 million.
There is no doubt that a DP trial and appeals are more costly than a non DP trial, and this is not in dispute by me.
Here is the conflict of costs. I assume you accept the $1.26 million mentioned, as do I so we have no conflict here right?
Trial and appeals for an average LWOP trial average approximately $75,000. Sounds reasonable doesn't it? At an average of $34,400 per year to keep an inmate in an average cell this means for the amount stated ($740,000), the average inmate spent approximately 19 years and 4 months. Not exactly life without parole is it?
If the inmate were placed in a maximum security cell (Approximately $75,000 per year), his stay would be less than nine years. Again, not exactly life without parole is it?
A $34,000 yearly cost per inmate for 50 years, figuring a 2% annual cost increase amounts to over $3 million, doesn't it. Now lets put this bad guy in a max security cell for fifty years, and it works out to be between $6 and $7 million doesn't it?
This is significantly higher than the $1.26 million. Heck cut it down to a slum cell at $17,000 per year, its still over the $1.26 million.
You are welcome to pick another to discuss.
aps said:So I am supposed to trust your facts? Well, I don't.
Yes. It is. But its still not death.aps said:I disagree. If someone is sentenced to life without the chance of parole, I think that is punishment.
C.J. said:Initiative would be good, but which facts don't you trust. I only introduced two facts and then used your source.
If we must though, lets use your facts. Let's use the $740,000 from your source, give a person free trials and appeals. This would be a 50 year average of $14,800.00 per year, a 25 year average yearly cost of $29,600.
In 1990 florida cost was $25,665.98, or $70.27 per day, and this was not maximum security, nor does it consider the cost of the facility. 15 years later, I would tend to believe the cost has gone up. http://www.fcc.state.fl.us/fcc/reports/crime/crben.html
Jail bed cost
http://justiceconcepts.com/cost.htm
In GA http://www.pap.state.ga.us/costs_for_sanctions.htm
Florida http://www.dc.state.fl.us/pub/annual/9899/beds.html
CT http://www.cga.ct.gov/pri/archives/2000fireportchap5.htm
How about WA http://www.quaker.org/fcwpp/OVERVIEW.htm
An NCJRS study on privitization. http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles1/bja/181249.txt
Let's see what the Senate Democrats have to say. And they are being kind. I know this article is concerning Iraq, but read the fourth paragraph about high security prisons in the U.S., and at $26,000 per year, they are being kind.http://democrats.senate.gov/~dpc/pubs/108-1-356.html
or this http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Prison_System/Justice_USA.html
M14 Shooter said:NO offense, but - Who cares?
That executing someome might cost more than putting them in prison for life isnt an sound argument against executing them.
C.J. said:Actually I was pointing out the opposite, that keeping them in prison likely costs much more than executing them, which coincidentally isn't a sound argument for executing someone either.
changintimes said:Bush sent 152 people to the death penalty in Texas, the highest number for a United States governer in recent history.
Statistically, 7% of death row prisoners are found to be innocent.
Do you think Bush may have made a mistake in deciding that all of the 152 people were guilty of the crime as charged?
Do you think Bush made a mistake about WMDs in Iraq?
I'd say yes and yes.
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