- Joined
- Sep 3, 2011
- Messages
- 34,817
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- Look to your right... I'm that guy.
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- Political Leaning
- Centrist
Bush I and "Read My Lips, No New Taxes!"
Then he raised taxes.
Did Bush I lie, or was he a victim of unfortunate circumstances?
Note: "Lie" implies intent to deceive.
Bush I and "Read My Lips, No New Taxes!"
Then he raised taxes.
Did Bush I lie, or was he a victim of unfortunate circumstances?
Note: "Lie" implies intent to deceive.
I fully agree with your assessment. I believe he was sincere. But going further, I also believe he was trying to show how non-partisan he was and that he could work with the other party in times in distress, and it came back to bite him in the butt.In my opinion, he was 100% sincere in the pledge and he fully intended to keep it when he made the pledge. Then we had a normal recession and the normal short falll of cash and somehow the Democrats were able to convince him that they were sincere in giving him three dollars of spending cuts for every dollar raised in new taxes if he would sign their 'tax the rich' bill. He agreed to do so--stiff new luxury taxes on private luxury boats, airplanes, and fine jewelry and such.
The result?
1. The rich simply went elsewhere to purchase their toys just as they will put their money elsewhere if Hillary tries to tax more of it.
2. American boat and private plane industries were decimated and tens of thousands of manufacturing workers lost their jobs. Those industries never fully recovered to what they once were even after those taxes were rescinded.
3. A great deal of America's fine jewelry business moved off shores to places like Grand Cayman. Much of it never came back.
4. The Republicans in the House and Senate quickly distanced themselves from their President.
5. George HW Bush's re-election prospects, almost a sure thing before he broke his pledge, went down in flames and Bill Clinton was elected with 43% of the vote.
And it is interesting, that amidst all that chaos, we did get the new taxes. And not a penny in spending cuts.
I fully agree with your assessment. I believe he was sincere. But going further, I also believe he was trying to show how non-partisan he was and that he could work with the other party in times in distress, and it came back to bite him in the butt.
Some might call that naive, I don't know, but I do think it's an example of how and why our political world has evolved to become so absurdly partisan. It almost has to be as a matter of survival.
Wow, that took me farther off than I intended the topic to be. lol
We the people have become ridiculously partisan yes. And I suppose it is a matter of self defense if we see the policies and proposals of the opposition as the most destructive. I am not sure those in Washington are so partisan as they would have us believe though. Democrats and Republicans have to go through the motions to throw enough bones to their base to get sufficient votes to stay in their lucrative and self serving positions. But ultimately nothing much ever happens to make things better does it? That's because making things better is not as sure a thing as the status quo is to increase their power, prestige, influence, and personal wealth.
I think both Democrats and Republicans hate Trump, for instance, not because he proposes doing bad things. He doesn't. But what he proposes could, maybe would, upset that status quo that is so valuable to both parties. They are not in the least interested in making government more efficient, effective, or honest because it benefits them for it to stay as it is. And Donald Trump is not one of them--one who will toe the line and protect the status quo. Hillary is. So I am thinking the Republicans of course want to retain their majority and those lucrative committee chairs, but they don't want things to significantly change for them. So they are allowing Hillary to be elected as one of them, and they are doing everything in their power to sabotage Trump who isn't.
It is a very different world than when George H.W. Bush was President. Now almost everybody in Congress is part of the permanent political class who want all that corruption and flexibility in their President.
Greetings, AlbqOwl. :2wave:
Maybe they don't actually want it, but since it's there, they're more than willing to accept it and then ignore it! Mustn't let outsiders upset the apple cart, and all that jazz! :mrgreen:
I fully agree with your assessment. I believe he was sincere. But going further, I also believe he was trying to show how non-partisan he was and that he could work with the other party in times in distress, and it came back to bite him in the butt.
Some might call that naive, I don't know, but I do think it's an example of how and why our political world has evolved to become so absurdly partisan. It almost has to be as a matter of survival.
Wow, that took me farther off than I intended the topic to be. lol
Dear Bill,
When I walked into this office just now I felt the same sense of wonder and respect that I felt four years ago. I know you will feel that, too.
I wish you great happiness here. I never felt the loneliness some Presidents have described.
There will be very tough times, made even more difficult by criticism you may not think is fair. I’m not a very good one to give advice; but just don’t let the critics discourage you or push you off course.
You will be our President when you read this note. I wish you well. I wish your family well.
Your success is now our country’s success. I am rooting for you.
Good luck,
George
If you want to see the difference between presidential candidates of that day and today.
Letter from Bush SR to Bill Clinton
Bush I and "Read My Lips, No New Taxes!"
Then he raised taxes.
Did Bush I lie, or was he a victim of unfortunate circumstances?
Note: "Lie" implies intent to deceive.
I have the utmost respect for the Bush's young and old, but this tradition apparently started with a short note from Reagan to his VP GHW Bush when he was taking over and Bush Senior, Clinton, and Bush Junior have carried that forward. One assumes that President Obama will somehow put away his hyper-partisanship and do the same, even if Donald Trump is elected, but I'm not prepared to bet on it since President Obama has done many classless things while President.
Jesus, weren't those the days. When a candidate could say definitively what his position was, and when he wasn't able to stand by it it destroyed his career and made him a laughingstock.
If only he'd waited to make that comment today. He could have lied about everything just for the fun of it and he would have been fine.
Now the people of the US excuse everything their own party does, and condemns everything the other party does.
I have the utmost respect for the Bush's young and old, but this tradition apparently started with a short note from Reagan to his VP GHW Bush when he was taking over and Bush Senior, Clinton, and Bush Junior have carried that forward. One assumes that President Obama will somehow put away his hyper-partisanship and do the same, even if Donald Trump is elected, but I'm not prepared to bet on it since President Obama has done many classless things while President.
In my opinion, he was 100% sincere in the pledge and he fully intended to keep it when he made the pledge. Then we had a normal recession and the normal short falll of cash and somehow the Democrats were able to convince him that they were sincere in giving him three dollars of spending cuts for every dollar raised in new taxes if he would sign their 'tax the rich' bill. He agreed to do so--stiff new luxury taxes on private luxury boats, airplanes, and fine jewelry and such.
The result?
1. The rich simply went elsewhere to purchase their toys just as they will put their money elsewhere if Hillary tries to tax more of it.
2. American boat and private plane industries were decimated and tens of thousands of manufacturing workers lost their jobs. Those industries never fully recovered to what they once were even after those taxes were rescinded.
3. A great deal of America's fine jewelry business moved off shores to places like Grand Cayman. Much of it never came back.
4. The Republicans in the House and Senate quickly distanced themselves from their President.
5. George HW Bush's re-election prospects, almost a sure thing before he broke his pledge, went down in flames and Bill Clinton was elected with 43% of the vote.
And it is interesting, that amidst all that chaos, we did get the new taxes. And not a penny in spending cuts.
I'd like to add that the media rode his ass into the ground over it, then you add in Ross Perot, and George was pretty well hosed.
I will say that I cringed at the time, thinking, "Ooh, you might regret that." It was too definitive... which was refreshing, and which did get him a lot of votes, I think... but it's usually not a good idea to paint oneself into a corner like that.Yes. Even dear old Paul Harvey who rarely ever took a personal jab at anybody was dismayed. I think it was Bush's immediate unpopularity with his own party coupled with Bill Clinton's very high unfavorables at the time that opened the door for Perot who probably wouldn't have been able to gain much traction if either party had a popular candidate. Too bad we didn't have somebody viable with Perot's charisma show up in this election.
Bush I and "Read My Lips, No New Taxes!"
Then he raised taxes.
Did Bush I lie, or was he a victim of unfortunate circumstances?
Note: "Lie" implies intent to deceive.
Roman numerals.Do you mean Bush the 1st or Bush Sr.?
Bush "I" doesn't make any sense.
I fully agree with your assessment. I believe he was sincere. But going further, I also believe he was trying to show how non-partisan he was and that he could work with the other party in times in distress, and it came back to bite him in the butt.
Some might call that naive, I don't know, but I do think it's an example of how and why our political world has evolved to become so absurdly partisan. It almost has to be as a matter of survival.
Wow, that took me farther off than I intended the topic to be. lol
I would be surprised to hear that Bush Jr did something similar. IF he did, I would doubt the sincerity.
It may be a little cynical of me to think that way but I don't see that same quality in W. I could be wrong.
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