Budget and beuracracy

[middleagedgamer]

When I look in the paper for jobs, I see an ad for the Post Office. The base pay is $18-$25 an hour, and if you know federal beuracracy, you know that these jobs are simple and can be performed with only a one-hour learning curve, tops. You could probably qualify to do this job with a G.E.D.

Beuracracy is a necessary evil in government, though, because history has proven that, when any one individual has too much decision-making power, abuse of said power is imminent. That's why there's two houses of Congress; that's why there's nine Supreme Court justices; that's why even inter-branch relations have a system of checks and balances so that each branch can keep the other branches in line.

However, if the beuracratic jobs are so easy that they have about a one-hour learning curve (maybe a day; PERHAPS a whole week at the VERY most), then why do they deserve to earn $18-$25 an hour?

I once had a clerical job. It was for a private company. My job responsibilities were MUCH more diverse than any of these beuracratic jobs, but I only made $8.00 an hour. Tell me, what are these idiots doing that lets them deserve more than TWICE the pay that I made, PLUS benefits?

Labor isn't the only thing that the government overspends on. Ever heard the stand-up joke about them spending $600 on a plunger? So, they're wondering how to balance the budget, yet they're spending a hundred bucks on the battery to power the microphone that they speak into while they talk about balancing the budget? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

I know someone who works for the state government, and she tells me that governments have to spend the money before the treasury department will give it to them. This kind of opened my eyes on the POSSIBILITY that that six hundred bucks wasn't spent on the plunger itself, but on the debt associated with "buy now, pay later." However, that still doesn't explain beuracracy salaries. If labor is buy now, pay later, then they're spending even more on beuracracy, because beuracratic workers will tell you that they actually take home a gross salary of $18-$25 an hour, and it's bullcrap.

So, why don't you try paying these A-holes what they're worth? Knock the salaries down to "the greater of $8.00 an hour, or the applicable minimum wage." That way, in areas like Sacramento, CA, where the minimum wage is $8.50 an hour, they won't be getting ripped off.

The beuracratic A-holes might protest, but hey, being the government, they have job security, which is, in and of itself, a terrific job perk, especially in this economy, so if they don't like it, they can go somewhere else where they'll be a dime a dozen.

Try paying the beuracratic people what they're actually worth, and then talk about how you're worried about money.

Thoughts?

 

[phattonez]

When you don't have to worry about profits, you don't have to worry about waste.

 

[middleagedgamer]

When you don't have to worry about profits, you don't have to worry about waste.

How do they not have to worry about waste? They can't just keep on borrowing money and borrowing money until the end of time.

 

[phattonez]

How do they not have to worry about waste? They can't just keep on borrowing money and borrowing money until the end of time.

The individual agencies of government don't have to worry about waste; they can just get more money from the government.

 

[bhkad]

How do they not have to worry about waste? They can't just keep on borrowing money and borrowing money until the end of time.

It's, "bureaucracy" dude.

 

[middleagedgamer]

The individual agencies of government don't have to worry about waste; they can just get more money from the government.

Yes, but if Congress can set in stone the salaries for these agencies, and every year, give them a cost of living wage increase that is the same percentage across the board (so that they can all live the same standard of living that they did the previous year), then wasting won't be an option.

I understand the INDIVIDUAL agencies don't have to worry about waste, but that's why we should give them a REASON to worry!

 

[middleagedgamer]

It's, "bureaucracy" dude.

Send me $1,000 Paypal and I'll go in and correct it for you.

 

[bhkad]

Send me $1,000 Paypal and I'll go in and correct it for you.

You won't get a post office job with that attitude.

 

[middleagedgamer]

You won't get a post office job with that attitude.

Let's not change the subject. Let's stick to the topic at hand.

 

[phattonez]

Yes, but if Congress can set in stone the salaries for these agencies, and every year, give them a cost of living wage increase that is the same percentage across the board (so that they can all live the same standard of living that they did the previous year), then wasting won't be an option.

No, because they don't innovate like private companies, will charge artificially low prices, and will overpay for goods.

I understand the INDIVIDUAL agencies don't have to worry about waste, but that's why we should give them a REASON to worry!

Private companies have a reason to worry, so why not depend on them instead of government agencies that are prone to waste?

 

[middleagedgamer]

No, because they don't innovate like private companies,

Which is EXACTLY why they shouldn't make as much money.

will charge artificially low prices,

Relevant how?

and will overpay for goods.

Again, that's exactly what I'm talking about, Mr. [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man]Scarecrow[/ame].

Private companies have a reason to worry, so why not depend on them instead of government agencies that are prone to waste?

Because we are legally required to depend on the government.

What? Are we just gonna not pay taxes anymore?

 

[phattonez]

I don't even know what you're arguing about now.

 

[middleagedgamer]

I don't even know what you're arguing about now.

Ok, let me break it down into nice, little bullets.

- Beuracracy employees get paid about $18-$25 an hour.
- Beuracracy jobs are easy and can be done with only a one-hour learning curve.
- About 1.8 million people work for the federal government, not counting the extremely high-paying jobs like Congressmen, President, and Cabinet.
- If you make $18 an hour and work 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, you make $36,000 a year.
- Multiply that by 1.8 million beuracracy workers, and that's $64.8 billion.
- If beuracratic employees were paid $8.00 an hour, that same $64.8 billion would only cost $28.8 billion. That's a difference of $36 billion, which won't eliminate the deficit by itself, but it can go a LONG way towards doing it.
-Then, when you stop paying $600 for a plunger and start paying $5 for it, your equipment budget plummets. The benefits fall to the American taxpayers.

 

[phattonez]

So why not let the private sector run and shut down those bureaucracies?

 

[drz-400]

It's very true that a lot of waste comes out of these government agencies. I think it's mostly because no one has any liability. It's not their money they are using. There are a lot of good government employees out their that do not waste and actually work hard as well.

I think many people would be surprised how many private idustries rely on these government programs for work though. Just look at many large construction projects, many are paid for by the government through these agencies.

 

[middleagedgamer]

So why not let the private sector run and shut down those bureaucracies?

Oh, you mean, go back to the Guilded Age?

It's very true that a lot of waste comes out of these government agencies. I think it's mostly because no one has any liability. It's not their money they are using. There are a lot of good government employees out their that do not waste and actually work hard as well.

I think many people would be surprised how many private idustries rely on these government programs for work though. Just look at many large construction projects, many are paid for by the government through these agencies.

THANK YOU for finally giving me an INTELLIGENT thought!

It's very true that a lot of waste comes out of these government agencies. I think it's mostly because no one has any liability.

Then, we should give them some.

It's not their money they are using.

If we treated them like people on welfare, and told them "Here's some money; make ends meet," then they'd worry about it.

There are a lot of good government employees out their that do not waste and actually work hard as well.

Yes, but why do they get paid $18 to $25 an hour for entry-level positions, only to start making six figures when they get promoted? I'm all for earning you keep and getting paid more when you deserve it, but why should they get paid $18 an hour when the employers have no true idea how hard they work, only going off references?

I think many people would be surprised how many private idustries rely on these government programs for work though.

Doesn't mean they have to pay the government $18-$25 an hour, with multiple people doing small tasks.

Just look at many large construction projects, many are paid for by the government through these agencies.

Ok, I can see that.

What I can't see is that these general contractors and tax accountants deserve more than twice what they would get paid in private companies, and sometimes more than thrice what private companies pay.

 

[phattonez]

Oh, you mean, go back to the Guilded Age?

Be open with your opinions.

 

[drz-400]

I am not sure what all of the government agencies pay for entry level positions. My dad works for a government agency called northern water. He started at an entry level position on the Operation and maintnence crew. Basically he would work the ditches and reservoirs owned by the agency and keep them up to spec. I think this starts at about $15 - $18 an hour with good benefits. Government agencies can hardley be beat for the benefits they give. Therefore this is a very sought after job and there are a lot of applicants for it.

Conversely, I worked for an industrial electrician as an apprentice only a few months ago and started at $13 an hour with really no benefits.

I would say these are fairly similar jobs as far as resposibilty. Both basically start out as a laborer working on contruction type projects.

Here is something to think about.

Could the higher pay and better benefits attract more workers? Would it allow the government to hire better and more resposible employees? Would resposible employees hold themselves liable for their tasks despite the fact they are not gambling their own money?

I would also like to say that most government agencies do not just have unlimited funding. Where my dad works they are sort of a quasi-municipality. They recieve tax payer money from a specific area and charge fees to use their ditches to get the bulk of their revenue. If they overspend or are not responsible with their money they will not simply be written a check by colorado. They must keep a balanced budget.

 

[phattonez]

I would also like to say that most government agencies do not just have unlimited funding. Where my dad works they are sort of a quasi-municipality. They recieve tax payer money from a specific area and charge fees to use their ditches to get the bulk of their revenue. If they overspend or are not responsible with their money they will not simply be written a check by colorado. They must keep a balanced budget.

And who determines what is responsible?

 

[drz-400]

A board of directors decides on the budget in this case. The board of directors is composed of different people in northern water throughout the state. When an opening in the board of directors is chosen anyone (that lives within northern waters district) interested in filling the position can apply. The applicants are then reviewed by judges from the county they live in and the best applicant according to the judges is chosen.

The actual amount of money northern water receives is a set amount. It is from an ad valorem tax. Basically, the state has allocated only a certain amount (I think 1% in this case) of propery taxes collected in the agencies area will go to northern water. The board of directors did not decide this. The state has and it has remained unchanged for a long time.

I am sure other government agencies work differently, but this is how one works.

 

[phattonez]

Yeah, I was just trying to show that they wouldn't be as responsible as a private company would be.

 

[middleagedgamer]

I am not sure what all of the government agencies pay for entry level positions. My dad works for a government agency called northern water. He started at an entry level position on the Operation and maintnence crew. Basically he would work the ditches and reservoirs owned by the agency and keep them up to spec. I think this starts at about $15 - $18 an hour with good benefits. Government agencies can hardley be beat for the benefits they give. Therefore this is a very sought after job and there are a lot of applicants for it.

Then, it should be like a straight man looking on adultfriendfinder.com for a date.

Here is something to think about.

Could the higher pay and better benefits attract more workers?

What makes you think it doesn't?

Would it allow the government to hire better and more resposible employees?

The best paying jobs should go to experienced managers and really high-ranking officials. Entry level positions are pretty much blind labor; you have no idea, aside from references, how well they'll perform.

Would resposible employees hold themselves liable for their tasks despite the fact they are not gambling their own money?

Yes, and they should.

I would also like to say that most government agencies do not just have unlimited funding. Where my dad works they are sort of a quasi-municipality. They recieve tax payer money from a specific area and charge fees to use their ditches to get the bulk of their revenue. If they overspend or are not responsible with their money they will not simply be written a check by colorado. They must keep a balanced budget.

Good. Let's make it this way for the entire government, federal, state, AND municipality.

 

[drz-400]

Yeah, I was just trying to show that they wouldn't be as responsible as a private company would be.

Why wouldn't they be though?

Are private companies owner's reviewed by judges?

Are those that decide the budget in private companies detached from the ones who decide how much they get to spend?

 

[phattonez]

Why wouldn't they be though?

Are private companies owner's reviewed by judges?

Are those that decide the budget in private companies detached from the ones who decide how much they get to spend?

They don't waste money because it cuts into the profit margin. What's a public agency's reason?

 

[drz-400]

because they only have so much money allocated to go into their budget