• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Brain-dead woman must carry fetus to birth because of abortion ban, family says

The time depends on when and where a recipient can be located and prepared. Then there's immunoassays, preserving, and transporting the organ. It can be a complicated process which has to be coordinated and performed within a finite amount of time. There's a lot of links in that chain and if any link breaks, the organ could be lost. So the process can take days or even weeks. But I never heard of it taking months.
 
I don't find any relevance to the amount of time. The mother doesn't care, she's dead. All that's there is meat that's able to keep a child alive.
 
No, liberals would say that, if she had a living will, it should be respected as to her will over the fate of the corpse, and if she had designated a person to have the authority to decide about artificial means of keeping her body going, that person's will should be respected.

They would never say that the state had authority to decide for a reason. If the state can override a living person's will regarding the fate of his/her corpse or medical means of artificially continuing her body processes, etc., then it will be able to override your will not to donate the organs of your corpse for transplant, and ultimately it will be be able to override your will not to donate the organs of your body while still living.

By supporting such state authority, you are leading to that place where our extra kidneys can be stolen from us just because "we don't need them." But we should have the right to choose whether or not to be organ donors. No one should have the right to our organs, or our bodies, dead or alive, against our living will.
 
Real blank said:
So can the baby survive?
Click to expand...
Yes. I read some online things about this. This is the most recent article I know. It tells of about 19 cases of newborns from corpses on ventilators like this. But so far as I am aware, it was only the Texas case before where the state law was used to try to override the living will of the person who died or the will of the designated survivors for making medical decisions.

Delivery of a Healthy Baby from a Brain-Dead Woman After 117 Days of Somatic Support: A Case Report - PMC

Patient: Female, 27-year-old Final Diagnosis: Brain death Symptoms: Loss of consciousness Medication:— Clinical Procedure: — Specialty: Critical Care Medicine • Obstetrics and Gynecology Rare disease The care and management of brain-dead pregnant ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Tettsuo said:
I don't find any relevance to the amount of time. The mother doesn't care, she's dead. All that's there is meat that's able to keep a child alive.
Click to expand...
This is ridiculous.

If you die, is it okay for the state to harvest the organs of your body for donation for transplants without your living will?

Is it okay for the state to cremate you even if it contradicts your living will?

It is okay to just dump your body in the Atlantic and not allow you to have a burial in the place you selected?

Is it okay to pick you up on the street while still living, subject you to medical tests, and then force you to have a kidney harvested for transplant, telling you that you don't have a choice because "you don't need the kidney"?
 
Bonnot said:
Adriana's family will be expected to pay for 7 months of medical care they didn't ask for or want, all so conservatives can force birth upon women, even those clinically dead.
Click to expand...
Probably that's how Georgia sees it. But I foresee a legal suit against the state of Georgia on this.
 
Tettsuo said:
I don't find any relevance to the amount of time. The mother doesn't care, she's dead. All that's there is meat that's able to keep a child alive.
Click to expand...
There are her parents, her boyfriend, her living child…and how NONE of them have been given a choice or a voice.

You think this isn’t going to permanently scar and traumatize them?

Then…perhaps…they’ll be expected to raise a disabled baby (or turn it over to the state or adoption and that trauma) and all that comes with THAT.

With NO CHOICE.

None.

Just so we are clear - THAT is what you are ok with?


She was 8-9 weeks pregnant. It’s been 90+ days and they have at least another 10+ weeks of this to go. These people are living a nightmare.

Where they have NO choices.

And, ,with the way things are going…by the time this fetus MIGHT be born, the current MAGA congress may make it so the then baby couldn’t be covered by Medicaid. Or slash funding for ACA healthcare plans to cover it. And based on the disabilities already identified…there will be extensive medical bills for the fetus/baby. Probably an extensive NICU stay.

No voice in that choice, and the government that’s forcing it upon to them is also slashing programs that would help with raising the fetus the government is insisting be carried no matter what.

I’m glad we can assume she’s a citizen - because otherwise the government is out there arguing this fetus could be deported once born and wouldn’t be a citizen.

What kind of funding has been slashed (or will be slashed) in GA for public education? Because kids with disabilities don’t tend to go to private schools…

 
A lot of folks exposed themselves here, and it isn't a good look.

Imaginary choices, so what if the state uses your body to grow fetuses, your family's future burdens are irrelevant.

Lots of masks were dropped.

 
Hatuey said:
A lot of folks exposed themselves here, and it isn't a good look.

Imaginary choices, so what if the state uses your body to grow fetuses, your family's future burdens are irrelevant.

Lots of masks were dropped.

Click to expand...

You mean we're saying choice is essential because everyone's situation is different and there are many different possible scenarios?

OMG. THE MASKS ARE OFF.

 
Hatuey said:
You seem to be reaching for imaginary wishes nobody has made to justify using women as fetus pods.

Why?

Click to expand...

Why am I bringing up the fact that her wishes could have been anything? Even one you yourself wouldn't want?

Um, because...that's the whole argument for choice?

You seem to be attempting to put all women into one box and deciding you know exactly what every woman in this situation would want.

Why?

 
But in this case ?
 
No, they only force women to give birth, after taking choice away from them, they then refuse any help or programs aimed at aiding children.
 
EnchantedMuggle said:
You mean we're saying choice
Click to expand...

Did a woman make a choice to be used as a fetus growing vessel in case of brain death? Where?

Show us your homework, no more imaginary choices.

 
Hatuey said:
Did a woman make a choice to be used as a fetus growing vessel in case of brain death? Where?

Show us your homework, no more imaginary choices.

Click to expand...

No, she didn't. She chose to have a pregnancy, but the rest of the hyperbole is you putting on any woman (since you don't know this one) a desire for what *you personally* would want or not want.

Which um, kind of negates the whole idea of choice...

The masks are definitely off.

 
Atreus21 said:
More sickening yet is you guys' insistence on a dead baby.
Click to expand...
She is ****ing brain dead! You are prolonging suffering! Its not your goddamn call! **** the fetus. Its a seed, its not independent and it does not have personhood
 
Hatuey said:
No choice was made to be used as a fetus growing vessel in the case of ceasing brain activity by anyone except the state here. This is the exact opposite of women having a choice.

Lol.

Click to expand...

I didn't say GA is giving her a choice.

We don't know what she could choose, though, so I offered one possibility. Because I am trying to see GA's logic, especially as this is a matter of law or should be.

You, OTOH, have decided you do know what every woman would want. No other possibility but yours, you know better than any woman you've never met. No wiggle room.

Which is literally the diametric opposite of choice.

 
EnchantedMuggle said:
No, she didn't. She chose to have a pregnancy,
Click to expand...

This too you do not know. She could have chosen to go to a state where abortion is legal past 6 weeks at week 10, or 11, or she could have kept it.

This is the state making the choice to keep her alive, regardless of the fact that no choice was made.

Why is it your imaginary choice that counts? She is dead, keeping her body going to keep a fetus alive for an additional 11 weeks is gnarly stuff, but it is what you defend.

That mask is coming off.

 
We’re going to become el salvador where women are imprisoned for miscarriages
 
EnchantedMuggle said:
I didn't say GA is giving her a choice.
Click to expand...

GA isn't giving her a choice. You pretending there was an imaginary choice we should all abide by is crazy work when no choice was given, not to this dead woman or her relatives. The state is forcing that fetus on everyone.

Dead or alive.

 

Correct. I don't know. Which is why I only stated a possibility. Every woman, every circumstance is different. As I said.

Yes, the state is making the decision. As I said.

Neither of us knows what choice she would have made, correct.

When did I say my possible choice counts? As I've said quite a few times now, it actually doesn't.

Your assertion is that what should be done is what you personally want done, full stop.

You're more knowledgeable than a stranger, you know what's best for women, women and families should do what you've decided.

The mask has fallen all the way off. And it's a clown mask. I'm not really seeing the difference in your attitude and GA's, TBS. Both of you know better than anyone involved what should or shouldn't be done with a woman's body.
 
Hatuey said:
GA isn't giving her a choice. You pretending there was an imaginary choice we should all abide by is crazy work when no choice was given, not to this dead woman or her relatives. The state is forcing that fetus on everyone.

Dead or alive.

Click to expand...

If that's what I had said (I said we all must abide by one possible choice? Show your work) and if I disagreed that GA is not giving her or her family a choice (I didn't) some of this might apply but...yeah, here we are.

The problem, as I see it, is that you didn't read my posts. You're doing th MAGA thing: claiming I said or believe something and then failing against that.

Simply reading and thinking can prevent this. If you're willing. But until then, you're really just creating an argument that was never made and fighting that. It's very difficult to have a discussion this way, TBH. I can't fight what you're inventing.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…