Bernie Sanders, I-Vt

radcen · Nov 10, 2014

Bernie Sanders, I-Vt

Why does this man pretend to be independent?

I don't necessarily disagree with everything he says, but he's still very liberal and still pretty much aligns himself with the Democrats exclusively. Plus, the people who like to quote him all the time are overwhelmingly staunch liberals, and it seems to me that if he were indeed independent (in the sense of being more middle-of-the-road, not liberal, in point-of-view) then at least some conservatives would occasionally quote him in a positively-intended context as well... but they don't.

lizzie · Nov 10, 2014

If he's independent, it's because he doesn't quite fit thoroughly into the dem or the socialist mold. From what I've seen, he seems to be significantly left of most democrats.

American · Nov 10, 2014

radcen said:
Bernie Sanders, I-Vt

Why does this man pretend to be independent?

I don't necessarily disagree with everything he says, but he's still very liberal and still pretty much aligns himself with the Democrats exclusively. Plus, the people who like to quote him all the time are overwhelmingly staunch liberals, and it seems to me that if he were indeed independent (in the sense of being more middle-of-the-road, not liberal, in point-of-view) then at least some conservatives would occasionally quote him in a positively-intended context as well... but they don't.

Is that old fossil still alive?

Declan · Nov 10, 2014

radcen said:
Bernie Sanders, I-Vt

Why does this man pretend to be independent?

I don't necessarily disagree with everything he says, but he's still very liberal and still pretty much aligns himself with the Democrats exclusively. Plus, the people who like to quote him all the time are overwhelmingly staunch liberals, and it seems to me that if he were indeed independent (in the sense of being more middle-of-the-road, not liberal, in point-of-view) then at least some conservatives would occasionally quote him in a positively-intended context as well... but they don't.

He is a progressive champion of middle class workers. He is the one person who could spoil a Hillary win in 2016 if he ran for President as an independent.

Henrin · Nov 10, 2014

Declan said:
He is a progressive champion of middle class workers. He is the one person who could spoil a Hillary win in 2016 if he ran for President as an independent.

He's a self proclaimed democratic socialist. I don't believe he has ever called himself a progressive.

Declan · Nov 10, 2014

Henrin said:
He's a self proclaimed democratic socialist. I don't believe he has ever called himself a progressive.

Democratic socialism falls within the broad category of progressive thought, just as there are such things as progressive libertarians. It is a large umbrella with lots of variation.

Henrin · Nov 10, 2014

Declan said:
Democratic socialism falls within the broad category of progressive thought, just as there are such things as progressive libertarians. It is a large umbrella with lots of variation.

:roll: Sure, whatever.

Declan · Nov 10, 2014

Henrin said:
:roll: Sure, whatever.

Well your level of contributing nothing is noted.

ocean515 · Nov 10, 2014

Declan said:
Democratic socialism falls within the broad category of progressive thought, just as there are such things as progressive libertarians. It is a large umbrella with lots of variation.

Indeed. Progressivism appears to be similar to fog. Of little substance, and quite deadly if not steered clear of.

Henrin · Nov 10, 2014

Declan said:
Well your level of contributing nothing is noted.

All you said is that the term progressive is more or less meaningless. If you intended to make your lean appear to be pointless, well, you did it.

Declan · Nov 10, 2014

ocean515 said:
Indeed. Progressivism appears to be similar to fog. Of little substance, and quite deadly if not steered clear of.

I think you are thinking of the steam coming of the pile of BS that pretends to be the Tea Party or post-modern Nazis as they should be more appropriately labeled.

Declan · Nov 10, 2014

Henrin said:
All you said is that the term progressive is more or less meaningless. If you intended to make your lean appear to be pointless, well, you did it.

All broad labels are meaningless.

RGacky3 · Nov 10, 2014

radcen said:
Bernie Sanders, I-Vt

Why does this man pretend to be independent?

I don't necessarily disagree with everything he says, but he's still very liberal and still pretty much aligns himself with the Democrats exclusively. Plus, the people who like to quote him all the time are overwhelmingly staunch liberals, and it seems to me that if he were indeed independent (in the sense of being more middle-of-the-road, not liberal, in point-of-view) then at least some conservatives would occasionally quote him in a positively-intended context as well... but they don't.

Being independant doesn't mean being "middle of the road" whatever that means.

He's a socialist, the Democrats are a party of wallstreet ...

mpg · Nov 10, 2014

radcen said:
Bernie Sanders, I-Vt

Why does this man pretend to be independent?

I don't necessarily disagree with everything he says, but he's still very liberal and still pretty much aligns himself with the Democrats exclusively. Plus, the people who like to quote him all the time are overwhelmingly staunch liberals, and it seems to me that if he were indeed independent (in the sense of being more middle-of-the-road, not liberal, in point-of-view) then at least some conservatives would occasionally quote him in a positively-intended context as well... but they don't.

He's too far to the left to be a Democrat.

Henrin · Nov 10, 2014

Declan said:
I think you are thinking of the steam coming of the pile of BS that pretends to be the Tea Party or post-modern Nazis as they should be more appropriately labeled.

facepalm

radcen · Nov 10, 2014

RGacky3 said:
Being independant doesn't mean being "middle of the road" whatever that means.

He's a socialist, the Democrats are a party of wallstreet ...

mpg said:
He's too far to the left to be a Democrat.

If he is indeed radically to the left of average Democrats, then the independent designation could make some sense. He could be to the Dems what the Tea Party is to the Reps... a hyper-extreme version.

Though I still think he aligns with the Dems more than either he thinks or he wants others to think.

soot · Nov 10, 2014

radcen said:
Why does this man pretend to be independent?

HE doesn't "pretend" to be an Independent, he is an Independent.

He officially has no party affiliation.

The Republican and Democrat Parties are just that, parties.

By definition membership organizations which seek to achieve goals through the acquisition and exercise of political power.

Bernie Sanders, and other Independents, choose not to affiliate themselves through membership with any particular party.

That doesn't mean that they can't agree with party platforms right down the line, it just means that they aren't officially members of the organization.

This has a cost in that Independents can't enjoy the many benefits of party membership, but it also has the benefit of allowing the candidate to not be beholden to a party in any way.

Sanders' independent status isn't so much an ideological distinction as it is administrative.

ocean515 · Nov 10, 2014

Declan said:
I think you are thinking of the steam coming of the pile of BS that pretends to be the Tea Party or post-modern Nazis as they should be more appropriately labeled.

Bad guess. I was thinking of the ideology that, for example, has allowed the once prosperous state of California to now become home to the highest poverty in the Nation. I guess Progs like to see women and children starve.

Do like the Nazi reference. Reaching for that typically represents the full extent at which Progs can express their intellect, so I appreciate the herculean effort that represented..

VanceMack · Nov 10, 2014

He says he is an 'Independent' because if he admitted he was a 'Socialist' that might be just a little too much to keep him elected. Even for Vermont.

One might ask the same question of Ron or Rand Paul or Gary Johnson.

Henrin · Nov 10, 2014

Declan said:
All broad labels are meaningless.

No, they're not. Libertarian is a broad term, but the libertarian left or right believe in liberty. In that way the term libertarian is NOT meaningless by itself. It is of course better to call yourself something like a voluntaryist or minarchist than a libertarian, but the word libertarian still generally defines what you believe in.

RGacky3 · Nov 10, 2014

radcen said:
If he is indeed radically to the left of average Democrats, then the independent designation could make some sense. He could be to the Dems what the Tea Party is to the Reps... a hyper-extreme version.

Though I still think he aligns with the Dems more than either he thinks or he wants others to think.

So does the tea party, so do libertarians ....

And look at his record, he votes against democrats a lot.

Declan · Nov 10, 2014

Henrin said:
No, they're not. Libertarian is a broad term, but the libertarian left or right believe in liberty. In that way the term libertarian is NOT meaningless by itself. It is of course better to call yourself something like a voluntaryist or minarchist than a libertarian, but the word libertarian still generally defines what you believe in.

No more or less so than progressive. "liberty" and "freedom" subjective. To some it may mean having no government and for others it may mean to have more government.

radcen · Nov 10, 2014

Declan said:
No more or less so than progressive. "liberty" and "freedom" subjective. To some it may mean having no government and for others it may mean to have more government.

That would require some creative tap dancing, though.

American · Nov 10, 2014

Declan said:
He is a progressive champion of middle class workers. He is the one person who could spoil a Hillary win in 2016 if he ran for President as an independent.

Good, if that's true, where do I send a check? :mrgreen:

tres borrachos · Nov 10, 2014

radcen said:
Bernie Sanders, I-Vt

Why does this man pretend to be independent?

I don't necessarily disagree with everything he says, but he's still very liberal and still pretty much aligns himself with the Democrats exclusively. Plus, the people who like to quote him all the time are overwhelmingly staunch liberals, and it seems to me that if he were indeed independent (in the sense of being more middle-of-the-road, not liberal, in point-of-view) then at least some conservatives would occasionally quote him in a positively-intended context as well... but they don't.

He calls himself "Independent". He's an admitted socialist. He was one of the founders of the Congressional Progressive Caucus more than 20 years ago. They are the most left-leaning members of Congress. My understanding is he has some deal with the Senate Dems that he will vote with them in exchange for committee seats and other goodies. I know he did oppose them on all Iraq votes, including the ones where the bulk of the Dems voted in favor of invasion.

No conservative would consider supporting him.

Bernie Sanders, I-Vt

radcen

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lizzie

American

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Declan

Henrin

Declan

Henrin

Declan

ocean515

Henrin

Declan

Declan

RGacky3

mpg

Henrin

radcen

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soot

ocean515

VanceMack

Less like the tiger...more like the lion.

Henrin

RGacky3

Declan

radcen

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American

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tres borrachos

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Bernie Sanders, I-Vt

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Trump Grump Whisperer

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Less like the tiger...more like the lion.

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