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Austria will tighten its firearms law now, after the school shooting this week with 11 dead and 30+ injured. - Do you think this is a good idea ?

?

  • Yes, this is a good idea ... and I even support a full ban of private firearm ownership.

    Votes: 4 19.0%

  • Yes, this is a good idea ... but I only support modest changes, not a full ban.

    Votes: 12 57.1%

  • No, I support the current law.

    Votes: 2 9.5%

  • No, I support US-style gun laws without many restrictions like in Austria.

    Votes: 2 9.5%

  • No, I support a gun law with no restrictions at all.

    Votes: 1 4.8%
  • Total voters
    21
Tender Branson

Tender Branson

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🇦🇹 Austria 🇦🇹
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I would support "option 2", which is also what the centrist ÖVP-SPÖ-NEOS government is now planning.

After Austria's "Columbine" this week, they simply cannot do nothing ... and the attack has shown that some loopholes need to be closed.

Especially psychological data sharing between agencies such as from the army draft psychological assessment (which is very comprehensive) must be shared with psychologists and authorities that are issuing the firearm permits to private persons.

This is currently not the case, because of data privacy law. The shooter was ruled "unfit to serve" at 18 at the military draft, after a military psychologist evalued him. This was not shared with the authorities at 21, before he got his firearm licence and with another psychologist whose assessment was necessary to get the license.

Also, the age to get firearms in Austria is 18 for rifles and 21 for handguns. Maybe they will raise both ages to 22-26, because if they raise the age to 26, there would be no connection to high school anymore at this age and high school is often a terrible place with bullying etc.

Also, the psychological testing itself to get firearms (= required) is outdated: currently, it's a written test that is quite oldfashioned which reads "do you hear voices ?" and questions like that, which every person can pass. The government is now trying to reform this, so that a combination of several modern state-of-the-art tests will be used, also personal talks with psychologists, not just written tests.
 
I think that our firearm law should be changed, so that

* the minimum age for getting a license and ALL firearm purchases is raised from 18 (rifles) and 21 (handguns) to 26 years of age.
* a waiting period of 3 months should be introduced (currently just 3 days !), after which you can buy a firearm after you get your license --- as a "cool-down-phase".
* better data sharing between psychologists/military draft agency/etc. with the licensing authorities. If you had prior psychological problems, you shouldn't be able to get a license and guns.
* the psychological assessment to get a license should not be done just once (before the permit), but every 3 years. Because your psychological health changes sometimes. You might be healthy now, but depressed in 3 years.
 
I also think that police should be able to enter your house to check if all your firearms/ammo is stored away safely - every year.

Currently, the police is only coming every 5 years here in Austria to gun owners, to check if firearms/ammo is stored away safely in a locked room or safe.

Verwahrung von Schusswaffen

www.oesterreich.gv.at
 
I just looked into it. Austria appears to have relaxed laws compared to the rest of Europe. I always oppose further restrictions on gun ownership, but I don't live in Austria.
 
tharock220 said:
I just looked into it. Austria appears to have relaxed laws compared to the rest of Europe. I always oppose further restrictions on gun ownership, but I don't live in Austria.
Click to expand...

I am not really familiar what the gun laws in other European countries are, but our media says that they are stricter.

While I totally oppose a ban on private firearms ownership, I support quite a bit of closing loopholes that now emerged and other improvements (see above).

Maybe this will save many lives in the future that would otherwise have been lost without these coming reforms.
 

I said I always oppose further restrictions. That's not entirely true. There was a time when I background checks and possibly registration didn't sound like bad ideas to me. The problem is that process was turned into a black box for the purpose of prohibiting guns in multiple US cities. The requirements to clear a background check were ambiguous, and local governments would simply refuse to register weapons. So it was a de facto ban, and now I'm not on board with it anymore.
 

It's your country so, they have the power to take the issue to the electorate and proceed to follow the vote.
 
I support a total ban on handguns.
 
As there is no Constitutional right for the People to keep and bear arms in Austria. BAN ALL GUNS.

One and done.
 
SkyChief said:
As there is no Constitutional right for the People to keep and bear arms in Austria. BAN ALL GUNS.

One and done.
Click to expand...
Bad logic. In the USA (u Atria/ there is no constitutional right to eat peanut butter. But no one suggests that therefore peanut butter must be banned.
 
Where in your link does it talk about options?

Considering that apparently austria has a strong hunting culture and thus the reason for why there is plentiful guns. Can you explain why hand guns are also so popular as it is normal to go hunting with rifles rather than a glock. Yet I have read that austrian often carry hand guns when hunting as well as rifles.

And then there is this laughable notion that a psychologist can somehow predict whether a person will be a criminal or a terrorist. If it were that easy then we would not have any crime at all because psychologists could tell us who is going to commit terrible acts with guns. Psychology is a soft science. They work on percentages not facts.

And this is the big question.
https://www.bta.bg/en/news/world/90...in-austria-current-rules-and-growing-concerns
The question is why are austrians so scared?
Rather than psychoanalyze peoples motive for a having a gun which the answer will always be influenced by the subjective opinion of the psychologist doing the analyse. Why are you not concentrating on what is making the people so fearful that they feel the need to buy a gun.


.
 

This is definitely true, as seen by the school shooting perpetrator this week. The military psychologist at his draft appearance at 18 ruled him mentally unfit to serve in the army.

Another psychiatrist at 21, in order to get his firearm license, ruled him no threat.


A) many Austrians who get guns are afraid of crime in general (especially home invasions)

B) many are afraid of increasing illegal immigrants, causing more crime

C) many are afraid of Russia and the Chinese (who could invade Austria) and want to be ready
 
I’m just glad they can discuss it like adults instead of having the entire conversation drowned out by dumb, violent, brainwashed loons.
 
Then quite obviously a psychological assessment of anyone who wants to buy a gun is a waste of time for everyone.

Tender Branson said:
A) many Austrians who get guns are afraid of crime in general (especially home invasions)
Click to expand...
Are you prepared to offer any statistics to back up the fear or is this like america where stupidity and propaganda are a bigger influence in creating fear than the crime itself.
https://criminologysymposium.com/do...1c4/1531986642251/WED24_Armin_Kaltenegger.pdf
 Residential burglary belongs to the top 5 criminal offences Criminal reports are in decline since 2009
Click to expand...

Tender Branson said:
B) many are afraid of increasing illegal immigrants, causing more crime
Click to expand...
Again brought on by a propaganda of fear or is there any evidence to back it.
Some factors as to why immigrants end up on the wrong side of the law.
https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/62992/german-study-immigration-does-not-raise-crime-rate
A new study by a top German economic policy institute has confirmed the academic consensus: There is no correlation between increased migration and a rise in crime — despite the political debate.

C) many are afraid of Russia and the Chinese (who could invade Austria) and want to be ready
Click to expand...
Right because a gun is really effective against a missile. Why the **** would the chinese attack austria.
 

Immigrants (like after the 2015 invasion here) definitely increase certain types of crimes, such as homicide or rape. This has been proven here. The fact that crime fell overall, has to do with other areas of crime.

And I wasn't talking about the Russians or Chinese firing missiles to Austria, but actually coming here and invading - in which case you could use a firearm in your home to protect your family and self.

But in this case, we have bigger problems anyway ...
 

Hi Branson,

I too Voted option 2.

Strict rules including evaluation. But also periodic re-evaluation. But people should still be able to keep a collection on the wall or go to a range. Just under much stricter rules. Not all guns. Not all people. Never a license for life. And NEVER in the streets.


Joey
 

Hi Branson,

A friend of mine in Holland owned a firearm. He told me that in Holland they can come and check un-announced. This is many years ago though. As a concept, I like that, but very specifically to only see where and how firearm(s) and ammunition are kept. This could be done in less than 5 minutes, and there does not have to be any further intrusion into your private life. It is something I am strongly against, but if it is this specific, I can live with that I think.

Joey
 
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Tender Branson said:
Immigrants (like after the 2015 invasion here) definitely increase certain types of crimes, such as homicide or rape. This has been proven here. The fact that crime fell overall, has to do with other areas of crime.
Click to expand...
By whom was it proven? Gossip magazines? Far right christian conservatives perhaps. Germany has the same problem with migrants and most probably the same results.
https://www.infomigrants.net/en/pos...cts-about-the-dark-side-of-the-refugee-crisis

Meaning more rapes are caused by local people while on the other hand more rapes where an immagrent is involved are reported.
Again, fear seems to be the basis for your beliefs rather than facts.

Tender Branson said:
And I wasn't talking about the Russians or Chinese firing missiles to Austria, but actually coming here and invading - in which case you could use a firearm in your home to protect your family and self.
Click to expand...
Yeah because russians would never just bomb a place they always send in an army. Just as they are not doing in ukraine. And again, what the **** makes you think china has any interest in staring a war in the middle of europe. Yours is a land locked country. How could or would chinese by pass other countries to invade you. And again I ask, what for?
Tender Branson said:
But in this case, we have bigger problems anyway ...
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True you have a country full of paranoid fantasies about being attacked by china.
 

Hi Rock,

So it is not the concept you disagree with, but the implementation of it. Worse, the different implementation in different cities.

And though we are on opposing sides here, I do completely agree with you that it is wrong what they did. Both parties do it all the time, but people should look at intent and not constantly try to find a way to bend it such that it suits them better, becaue that was not the intent.


Joey
 

Hi Soy,

No, they can not predict that, but I rather ask a psychologist than a carpenter or baker about a person's state of mind. So let's ask him anyways.


Joey
 

Some things should be outside of politics. In the UK, it's the police that make those decisions based on their checks of safe storage and any history of crime.
 
JoeyJoystick said:
Hi Soy,

No, they can not predict that, but I rather ask a psychologist than a carpenter or baker about a person's state of mind. So let's ask him anyways.


Joey
Click to expand...
You might as well ask for the opinion of anyone as psychiatry does not give a person a magical ability to understand another simply by asking a few questions. Psychology deals in statistical information not some idealised image of a person trained to know what others think. Psychiatrists would only be making a guess that is as good as a guess you might get from a carpenter or baker.
The point is that getting a psych evaluation of a person before giving them a gun would be a complete waste of time and have no more certainty than if you asked a carpenter or baker their opinion.
 

Hi Soy,

Yes, listening to someone who has no clue what he is talking about is a waste of time. I think I should listen to you more. Why would I want to listen to people who study in University for 6+ years. I better listen to someone who has been reading the Tom & Jerry Chronicle, such as yourself.

Joey
 
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