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Ask a Libertarian Socialist

Right. But two wrongs don't make a right. People here own private land now. A government taking it back through coercion and force is just as evil as the Europeans who initially took it by coercion and force.

I don't believe in the government taking the land. But I also believe that land is not property the same way goods are. I happen to believe that true property derives from the fruits of labor. Land has never derived from the fruits of anyone's labor.


You and Kindness are communists, I get it.

I do not consider myself a communist.

Why the need to try to disguise it with newfangled terms?

As already pointed out, libertarian socialist is not a "newfangled term." Look up its history.
 

It's not newfangled as much as it is oxymoronic...maybe even omit the "oxy-".

About the closest that socialism can come to being anarchistic is syndicalism - and that's just because workers can "pool" their money together in an effort to be equal owners and equal profiteers. Any other way, and you're just committing theft - and the victims are capital owners.

They're the ones that socialists want dead, enslaved, or robbed - in true authoritarian measure.
 
This whole country was private property of native Americans that Europeans took by force and coercion. That doesn't make it right.

And what about areas of America they didn't occupy? What made the land their 'property?' It certainly wasn't a land title because they usually did not have titles. And if you say 'homesteading' then how much work is required to make land 'private property?'
 
About the closest that socialism can come to being anarchistic is syndicalism

Then you haven't done your research:

Political philosophies commonly described as libertarian socialist include most varieties of anarchism (especially anarchist communism, anarchist collectivism, anarcho-syndicalism,[20] and mutualism[21]) as well as autonomism, Communalism, participism, libertarian Marxist philosophies such as council communism and Luxemburgism,[22] and some versions of "utopian socialism"[23] and individualist anarchism.[24][25][26]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

They're the ones that socialists want dead, enslaved, or robbed - in true authoritarian measure.

That is certainly true of certain state socialists, whom I abhor as much as any other totalitarians.
 

You're right. I haven't done my research...on wikipedia...

Also, "anarchist communism" is redundant, since true communism exists completely without the state. Of course, it's wiki. I rather expect that.
 
You're right. I haven't done my research...on wikipedia...

Then prove its wrong. Its a fact that individualist anarchists like Benjamin Tucker and Kevin Carson consider(d) themselves libertarian socialists.
 
Then prove its wrong. Its a fact that individualist anarchists like Benjamin Tucker and Kevin Carson consider(d) themselves libertarian socialists.

Oh I know a bunch of people who consider themselves libertarian socialists. I also know a bunch of people who think that man never walked on the moon.
 
Oh I know a bunch of people who consider themselves libertarian socialists. I also know a bunch of people who think that man never walked on the moon.

Point is, socialism was not always a term for those who supported the State. I will repost what Cyrylek said because he summarized it well:

 
Then prove its wrong. Its a fact that individualist anarchists like Benjamin Tucker and Kevin Carson consider(d) themselves libertarian socialists.
What about the poem in Romeo and Juliet, "O, be some other name! What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet;"

So what difference does that name mean? If you are a socialist, call yourself a socialist, to make it easier for everyone to know what you mean. How do you know if you are a socialist? If you want central control of production and distribution you are a socialist.

The problem with all of the system which are similar to the one called socialism is, for it to work there must be autocratic rule. It doesn't matter who agrees to what at the beginning, it will still be an autocracy. Like Cuba, Fidel was not a "socialist," he was a revolutionary who showed his true colors after the agreed upon revolution was won. Too late to change by then.

Me, I am a classic liberal, a moderate democrat who decries all extremes of politics. Call me a Blue Dog if you wish, but I am still me.
 
"Classical liberalism" is the term used to designate the ideology advocating private property, an unhampered market economy, the rule of law, constitutional guarantees of freedom of religion and of the press, and international peace based on free trade. Up until around 1900, this ideology was generally known simply as liberalism. The qualifying "classical" is now usually necessary, in English-speaking countries at least, because liberalism has come to be associated with wide-ranging interferences with private property and the market on behalf of egalitarian goals. This version of liberalism — if such it can still be called — is sometimes designated as "social," or (erroneously) "modern" or the "new," liberalism.
 
Point is, socialism was not always a term for those who supported the State. I will repost what Cyrylek said because he summarized it well:

I know that libertarian and socialist both had different definitions at one point in time. I consider myself to be somewhat more related to the French libertarian movement of the 18th century.
 
Because it would be agreed upon before any revolution.

So people would be free to do as they choose provided that they cannot own property or start their own businesses? See to me, socialism can only exist if you prevent any new businesses from forming and forcing all of the old businesses to hand over their resources. Otherwise, any old Joe/Jane might start their own business and start undercutting the union owned businesses. To prevent that from happening would require some form of force. That is not libertarianism to me.
 
So what difference does that name mean? If you are a socialist, call yourself a socialist, to make it easier for everyone to know what you mean.

For me, personally, I do not call myself a socialist because it creates confusion (as it is in this thread) about what I support. Just calling myself a left libertarian creates enough confusion for those who don't research ideological terms.


How do you know if you are a socialist? If you want central control of production and distribution you are a socialist.

And there is the confusion again. Many libertarian socialists do not support central control of production and distribution.


Me, I am a classic liberal, a moderate democrat who decries all extremes of politics. Call me a Blue Dog if you wish, but I am still me.

Actually, I consider myself a classical liberal. Probably refer to myself as that more than I do left libertarian. I like TRUE free markets and decentralized government.
 
Point is, socialism was not always a term for those who supported the State. I will repost what Cyrylek said because he summarized it well:

My question will always be, what do you do if socialism erodes itself under a purely libertarian society? Which are you willing to give up first?
 

Yet, calling yourself classical liberal I bet would get many folks chanting: "You're a liberal that supports private property and free market?! Thats an oxy-moron!" Thats exactly what were seeing with some of the comments in this thread.
 
Because it would be agreed upon before any revolution.

Are you kidding me? Agree to what? Agree to be happy handing over all economic freedom and simply agreeing to accept whatever the state decides is your "fair share"?
 
My question will always be, what do you do if socialism erodes itself under a purely libertarian society? Which are you willing to give up first?

I am pro-volunteer and anti-coercion, so whatever society evolves from that I support.
 
Every one of them that you've stated thus far in this thread. Read the thread.

I know what I have stated and nothing I've stated is 'communist.' In case you missed it, I believe in keeping the fruits of one's own labor. Does that sound communist?
 
I know what I have stated and nothing I've stated is 'communist.' In case you missed it, I believe in keeping the fruits of one's own labor. Does that sound communist?

But seizing all private land. Yes, that sounds communist.
 
I am pro-volunteer and anti-coercion, so whatever society evolves from that I support.

Libertarian capitalism. Libertarian socialism may be pro-volunteer, but it damn sure isn't anti-coercion.
 
Yet, calling yourself classical liberal I bet would get many folks chanting: "You're a liberal that supports private property and free market?! Thats an oxy-moron!" Thats exactly what were seeing with some of the comments in this thread.

No, because "socialism" is by its nature coercive and authoritarian, and both "libertarian" and "anarcho-" in any of their flavors is the opposite of that.

Now, you CAN have a totally voluntary communism if everyone agrees all the time and is entirely committed to it. But that ain't ever going to happen large-scale and long-term. If you want to maintain the socialism, you must be coercive against the unwilling. And there will always be unwilling.

If you just want your own little commune, go to it. No one's stopping you. But imposing it on non-volunteers is something else entirely, and it puts paid to any claptrap of it being non-coercive.
 
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