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As Trump dithers over Ukraine, Russia’s military edge weakens, officials say

Since Milosevic was committing a genocide yes. We even found out he was hiding the bodies.
 
bomberfox said:
Since Milosevic was committing a genocide yes. We even found out he was hiding the bodies.
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Do you call trying to save your country from rebellious Islamist terrorists “genocide”?
 

Except Americans felt differently last November, even the ones who were from some of those groups.

Waiving Mexican Flags, burning cars, and throwing rocks at policemen and National Guard, it's not a good look.

It's like some of you people learned not a thing from the BLM Riots. Initially, everyone was horrified and even big corporations were trying to appease the anger. But then it dragged on and on with riots and lootings and fire, and frankly, the only reason why Trump came as close to winning as he did in 2020 was because people just got fed up with the chaos.

bomberfox said:
Also Trump has rounded up citizens. Thats what happens. We learned since Eisenhower that mass deportations cause humanitarian crises.
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Actually, Trump's policies, like Eisenhower's, are having the desired effect.

The number of people caught trying to cross the border in December 2022 (After Autopen told them to "surge to the border) was close to 300K a month. After Trump won re-election, it dropped to less than 100K a month. Now its only about 12,000 a month. So if nothing else, Trump's policies HAVE staunched the bleeding.

The reality is, we probably can't deport more than 250,000 a year, and Trump's numbers will be below Biden's because there won't be people being turned away at the border if they don't show up. But the policy of snatching people up and sending them back IS having the desired effect of getting people to either never come to start with, or to self-deport before ICE catches up with them.

bomberfox said:
America is not failing because of immigrants or flag waving, America is failing because of its own dogshit know nothing homegrown culture.
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No other country has immigration policies as liberal as the US. Even in Trump's best fever dream, it will still be easier to immigrate to the US than anywhere else, if you do it legally.

bomberfox said:
I think you are just arguing to argue because you have been proven wrong so many times here.
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Nope, I argue because frankly, BOTH sides live in echo chambers and only sniff their own farts. On USMB, it's the right-wingers; on this board, it's the left-wingers, but in both cases, you guys live in confirmation bias.

bomberfox said:
The thing about polls is if you ask people specific policy questions the answers change/
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Yes, they do. Not that this matters, Trump doesn't have to worry about polls, he can't run again anyway. With compliant courts and a compliant congress, he can do whatever the hell he wants.
 
bomberfox said:
Since Milosevic was committing a genocide yes. We even found out he was hiding the bodies.
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But he wasn't attacking any NATO members, which puts the lie to "NATO is a defensive Alliance and Putin shouldn't worry if they set up shot on his border".
 
JoeB131 said:
But he wasn't attacking any NATO members, which puts the lie to "NATO is a defensive Alliance and Putin shouldn't worry if they set up shot on his border".
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It's delusinal to think that a humanitarian mission to end genocide in a tiny country 25 years ago would result in an invasion or atack on Russian now. Serbia doesnt predict anything because Serbia and Russia are two different things. Just because one thing happened 25 years ago cannot possibly cause another attack today. Same with qadaffi. Libya decades ago is not the same as Russia now.

It's a charade and a false pretense to pretend that NATO would invade or attack Russia first. Putin said it was about protecting ethnic Russians and that's just as big a lie. His lies about NATO are just as fake.

Let's see, Libya, Serbia and Russia. Which one has nukes. Do you imagine NATO officials are telling each other that it worked so well in 1999 in Serbia we should repeat that on Russia now? That's delusional. NATO isn't stupid and they can tell the difference between libya, Serbia and Russia because they are not putin lovers.

Don't attack another country and NATO won't be any threat at all.
 
That doesnt disprove my points about your claim that immigrants waving flags is national suicide. You might just want to give that up before you look more foolish. It is as good a look as waving Irish flags. You just dont like it but unfortunately for you it is protected speech your ass hurt doesnt make law.

We let up on Eisenhower’s policy because it was creating a humanitarian crisis.

Its having a short term desired effect but the public is now turning on trump. Trump is trying to deport people who are here legally and citizens as well.

Trump won in part because he sabotaged a bipartisan bill designed to address this issue so its not like democrats didnt try.

I base my opinion on facts here, not reading the tea leaves.

Peaceful protests have only resulted in small band aids which is why you are seeing people get more radical.
 
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Roadvirus said:
So NATO should just ignore some nation's dictator committing wholesale murder?
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Which ones? NATO is a defense pact not a police force or tool for instigating wars. But that's how it's used.
 

Oh, so NATO gets to DECIDE when it's okay to overthrow a government because they are "in the right".
Putin thinks he's in the right.
This kind of thinking never ends well.


Okay, they are perfectly free to wave whatever flag they want.

When they burn a car, arrest them.
When they throw a rock at a policeman, arrest them.
And if we find out that he wasn't born here, send his ass back to Mexico or wherever he came from.

Problem solved.

bomberfox said:
We let up on Eisenhower’s policy because it was creating a humanitarian crisis.
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Um, no. You need to look up the history of Operation Wetback. To start with, Mexico fully cooperated because they were undergoing severe labor shortages and WANTED those people back.

I had this same argument with a rightwinger on USMB who claimed Operation Wetback shows Trump can deport everyone, but leaves out the part where it was agricultural interests that put a stop to it when they had no one to pick their crops.

bomberfox said:
Its having a short term desired effect but the public is now turning on trump. Trump is trying to deport people who are here legally and citizens as well.
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Yes he is. No one is standing up for Trump, just pointing out how Autopen's fecklessness created this situation.

bomberfox said:
Trump won in part because he sabotaged a bipartisan bill designed to address this issue so its not like democrats didnt try.
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Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.

Trump hasn't passed any new laws. He's STILL managed to get border crossings down to a trickle and deport 139,000 uninvited guests.

Autopen could have done the same thing instead of inviting them to "surge the border".
 
Roadvirus said:
So NATO should just ignore some nation's dictator committing wholesale murder?
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Is that dictator a member of NATO? No.
Did he invade a NATO member state? No.

None of NATO's Business.
 
Umm no. Trump specifically prevented the bill that would have allowed the president to legally close the border. Why do you constantly lie?

To stop a genocide. You know like the nazis needed to be overthrown to stop the holocaust.

Bullshit bullshit bullshit indeed lol…
 
JoeB131 said:
Oh, so NATO gets to DECIDE when it's okay to overthrow a government because they are "in the right".
Putin thinks he's in the right.
This kind of thinking never ends well.
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You're using the murder of civilians and genocide in order to make a claim that NATO is the problem?

Does it makes sense that Serbia and Libya are permission for Putin to demand the Balkins as a prerequisite to negotiations with Ukraine. Nothing that happened in Serbia, Libya gives Putin a free ticket to Ukraine or the Balkins. Another false equivalence

Circular logic for saying Putin decided, and his decision is that "he's in the right". Compare that to a consensus of Europe against Putin.

You still can't accept the former Warsaw Pact nations chose the the West.

NATO intervened when the scale of human rights violations were exponential.

Most people oppose genocide, but for Putin it's ok because he can use it as an excuse. He can invade Ukraine because he's scared that NATO forced a villain to quit 25 years ago. But we all know, only villains fear NATO.
 
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The difference is that Putin is actually in the right. NATO supported Albanian terrorism and wanted to destroy Milosevic’s noble goal of a Greater Serbia—a goal that has been around for decades before that. Putin is fighting Nazism in Ukraine and is trying to reclaim lost land. There is a big difference.
 
The only Nazis in Ukraine are in the employ of Russia.
 

NATO stopped ethnic cleansing.
 
I am just amazed that you put Milosevic and noble in the same sentence.
 

How could he have prevented anything if he didn't hold public office at the time? Autopen didn't need new laws to get rid of our unwelcome guests; the laws we have are reasonably sufficient. Trump didn't get any new laws passed, but he's deported 140,000 migrants and slowed the bleeding at the border to a trickle. AMAZING how that works.

Um, guy, we killed more people in Iraq and Afghanistan than Slobodon was trying to kill in Kosovo. They were killing Muslim Terrorists before it was cool!


First, it's the "Baltics", not the "Balkins".
Second, my point isn't that Serbia or Libya were justified (they weren't, and made matters much worse in fact), but that the lie that NATO is purely a defensive alliance and please don't be upset that we are setting up missile sites right here on your border, nothing to see here.

soap box said:
Circular logic for saying Putin decided, and his decision is that "he's in the right". Compare that to a consensus of Europe against Putin.

You still can't accept the former Warsaw Pact nations chose the the West.
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If the consensus in Europe is that they want to fight Putin, they can do it without our help. Just like most of these shitheads were nowhere to be found when we went to war with Iraq.

Seems fair to me.

soap box said:
NATO intervened when the scale of human rights violations were exponential.
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Bullshit. The only reason we intervened in Kosovo was Slick Willy wanted the history books to say something about him other than "Got impeached for getting a blow job!" Kosovo went on to be a nest of Muslim Terrorists in Europe.

soap box said:
Most people oppose genocide, but for Putin it's ok because he can use it as an excuse. He can invade Ukraine because he's scared that NATO forced a villain to quit 25 years ago. But we all know, only villains fear NATO.
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That you think of anyone as a "villian" is kind of child-like in your thinking.

Milosevic had a pretty reasonable reason for wanting to go into Kosovo. It was part of Serbia, had been since the country's inception. It also has a historical signifigance, Kosovo was the site of the battle where the Serbians lost their freedom to the Ottomans. (Kosovo Polje means "Field of Ravens")

There was no noble cause. The Europeans didn't want a bunch of Muslims flooding into their countries and Slick Willy was looking for a legacy.

We know why Putin invaded Ukraine, because the 19% of the population who are ethnic Russians would rather be part of Russia.
 
 

"we killed more people in Iraq and Afghanistan than Slobodon was trying to kill in Kosovo. They were killing Muslim Terrorists before it was cool!"

Slobodon and his ilk commited genocide and were committing ethnic cleansing when NATO got involved.

And NATO had no hand in Iraq and Afghanistan.

War =/= Genocide/Ethnic cleansing
 
Actually he did which is why the democrats worked to pass a republican created bill. Why do you lie so much? Are you two years old? Autopen is centuries old technology used.

They werent killing muslim terrorists, they actually created death camps over a scare about rape that really wasnt that common.

Trump contacted key republicans and told them to change their votes and they did. Thats how.
 
You are lying again. The war in afganistan was a joint effort and one of the few times that the defense pact was actually triggered. Everyone in NATO supplied boots on the ground. We actually dragged several countries into Iraq despite the fact that there was no binding reason to.
 

If Putin invaded to save ethnic Russians, why did he send indigenous Russians first? Which Russian is more important? That reality shows how much he gives a flying F about ethnic Russians.

You'll never know what people in the region want because there is no referendum. I reject your claim immediately because Putin is too scared of democracy to find out what self determination means, and you don't know what your 19% wants. You don't know any of that. Tell Putin to force a ceasefire so that we can put your claim to the test.

NATO never started a war. There is no defense for Milo nor Putin. I'm ignoring your points because you're willing to tell any lie to support Putin.

It's shameless that you want to blame ethnic cleansing on Clinton. Clinton didn't make Milo do anything.

NATO intervened when the scale of human rights violations were exponential, but you support it and this is exploited as an excuse to pretend that Putin is a victim.

Quit pretending everyone else is to blame. Putin started this war he's responsible for the carnage and he refuses to stop it.
 
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