Article on Palestinians' right to armed resistance

[Fledermaus]

Nobody argues otherwise but people like you don't wish to include Israeli war crimes onto the ledger and thus make the same comparison and come to the same conclusion.

Why?

Because it completely destroys your preferred position of bias.

And Israeli tank and bomb attacks in civilian infrastructure

Imperialism’s Shell Game

While every possible form of pressure should be brought to bear on the Biden administration to cut off the flow of arms to Israel, the prevailing law and policy debate tends to obscure some key…

lpeproject.org

Does that equate to 90,000 Israeli terrorist attacks just with shells alone?

You also never answered the question as to whether you yourself can be considered a terrorists by using your own criteria. Is it problematic for you?

So we finally agree Hamas is a terrorist organization committing thousands of terrorist attacks upon the civilians in Israel.

Why the years of denial?

 

[Fledermaus]

I get that those with horrific biases/bigoted views don't appreciate standards being applied equally so as to gain a more objective view with which to form an opinion but do you have to do it in such a childish way every time?

Is it aimed at trying to distract the reader from understanding your wish to hang onto that bias at all costs ?

Certainly seems like it to me.

BUTWHATABOUTISREAL...... The sequel

 

[oneworld2]

I've

And you imagine that all you want.

It's written here so no need to imagine.

Many of the deaths were people who resistance fighters can legitimately kill and so the claim that the operation itself " wasn't resistance" isn't true is it?

The Nova civilian casualties roughly match Israeli security personnel casualties (Note, not all IDF)

Firstly they don't even have to be all IDF personnel.

Anyone who takes direct armed participation in the fighting loses their protected status. That's the law.

Considering you are ex army, why are you seemingly trying to fudge this obvious truth?

At least 14 Israeli civilians were killed by the IDF's use of the Hannibal Directive.

Yep.

14 we know of.

Indeed.

While 736 Israeli civilians and 79 foreign nationals were intentionally killed.

Molehill, meet Mountain.

Spamming and fudging in order to misrepresent the truth is your MO here and the above is just the latest example of hundreds of others.

 

[oneworld2]

The Nova civilian casualties roughly match Israeli security personnel casualties (Note, not all IDF)



At least 14 Israeli civilians were killed by the IDF's use of the Hannibal Directive.

Yep.

14 we know of.

13 is the number of Israeli civilians killed in one single incident in Be'eri kibbutz and thus has FA to do with those killed at the music festival.

So you are either ignorant or lying.

Around 1000 vehicles were torched by Israeli tank and helicopter fire, how many contained Israeli civilians from the music festival?

We don't know and won't know because Israel is hiding the evidence/blocking independent investigations BUT you are pretending to know .

 

[Fledermaus]

It's written here so no need to imagine.

Many of the deaths were people who resistance fighters can legitimately kill and so the claim that the operation itself " wasn't resistance" isn't true is it?


Firstly they don't even have to be all IDF personnel.

Anyone who takes direct armed participation in the fighting loses their protected status. That's the law.

Considering you are ex army, why are you seemingly trying to fudge this obvious truth?


Spamming and fudging in order to misrepresent the truth is your MO here and the above is just the latest example of hundreds of others.

Wow....

I'm not "ex army". I am a Marine.

And "Spamming and fudging in order to misrepresent the truth is your MO" is 100% Projection.

 

[Craig234]

We don't know and won't know because Israel is hiding the evidence/blocking independent investigations BUT you are pretending to know .

As I understand, they are not hiding the evidence, they destroyed it.

 

[bythoughts]

Just to be clear here, do you think Israel can claim " self defence" against those they are illegally occupying and illegally settling? We can also throw in ethnic cleansing ( happening long before 7th October ) and now genocide?

Just as each side is capable of committing war crimes, each side is capable of acting in self defense - not just individually but collectively. I remember a story about a lady who was the only one allowed to have a gun in a kibbutz in Israel that was attacked on 10/7. To protect civilians there, she acted in self defense.

 

[oneworld2]

Just as each side is capable of committing war crimes, each side is capable of acting in self defense - not just individually but collectively. I remember a story about a lady who was the only one allowed to have a gun in a kibbutz in Israel that was attacked on 10/7. To protect civilians there, she acted in self defense.

Each side does and has committed war crimes which only makes the defining of one side only as terrorists a glaring double standard and a double standard that is accepted here by both defenders of Israeli state actions and policies and those with a pro Palestinian state perspective, all of which should tell us something about the success of the western propaganda system imo.

It's pretty obvious to me that you cannot collectively claim " self defence" against a people you are illegally occupying and illegally settling,whose rights you are violating on a mass scale every single day whilst reneging on the responsibilities put upon those who choose to occupy another. In that context, which I believe to be the most relevant and just context, Israels claim to self defence is on a waaay shakier footing than that of the Palestinians, what do you think?

The last part of your post is in essence part of my contention about how those killed are being mischaracterized by both the Israeli state and the western msm media. For sure you can claim that woman who was allowed to possess a gun for " self defence" and the defence of others was acting in self defence as a stand alone point BUT you cannot at the same time class her death, if she were to be killed, as the death of an innocent civilian can you?

Once a person takes up arms and enters into the combat itself they shed their " innocent civilian " status as per the laws pertaining to armed conflicts and thus anyone killed in such a way ceases to be innocent and becomes a legitimate target for the other side, do you agree or disagree ?

 

[oneworld2]

As I understand, they are not hiding the evidence, they destroyed it.

They are doing both imo and we can also include " losing" the evidence all in a bid to stop the truth about 7th October coming out and their misrepresentations of it , along with their own criminality against their own people being exposed for the crock of shit it is.

Many people here only seem to care about the lives of innocent Israelis being lost IF their lives were taken by Palestinians, when their own state murders them they want to avoid the debate for obvious reasons.

This should tell everyone about the true nature of their concern and what underpins it.

 

[bythoughts]

Once a person takes up arms and enters into the combat itself they shed their " innocent civilian " status as per the laws pertaining to armed conflicts and thus anyone killed in such a way ceases to be innocent and becomes a legitimate target for the other side, do you agree or disagree ?

Well, in the U.S. a huge mass of the population has arms. Just having a means of self defense isn't enough to make you not a civilian. Wielding it to fight an armed force that comes after you probably makes it very hard to claim that status, especially if you don't follow a "duty to retreat" but go out to defend your neighbors. But that is still originating in self defense of the group of people attacked, rather than necessarily indicating a role in a larger war crime by the country they are in.

I'll admit the analysis in this case is kind of moot because she had the gun because she was in the IDF at some point. But I refuse to believe it's wrong to try to keep people you know from being kidnapped or shot.

I do acknowledge both sides can make the same claim in similar situations - if settlers are attacking the innocent people of a town and a Palestinian can defend his neighbors, the same analysis has to apply.

 

[oneworld2]

Wow....

What?

That you dodged the questions put to you? That's not even a minor shock.

Here's one you dodged................Many of the deaths were people who resistance fighters can legitimately kill and so the claim that the operation itself " wasn't resistance" isn't true is it?

This is crucial to your claim about the 7th October attack " not being resistance".

I'm not "ex army". I am a Marine.

Semantics because you are dodging another question.

Considering the mass war criminality of the US military it would be reasonable to, using your own criteria, to consider you a terrorist for your association/involvement, so are you a terrorist?

And "Spamming and fudging in order to misrepresent the truth is your MO" is 100% Projection.

I haven't spammed this thread or most/all others, that is your MO, copying and pasting your own previous posts, it's on display here again so you are just lying as a way out and using projection to accompany it.

 

[oneworld2]

BUTWHATABOUTISREAL...... The sequel

Comparisons are welcome by the more objective and despised by the biased, thanks for confirming what you are again.

 

[Craig234]

I do acknowledge both sides can make the same claim in similar situations - if settlers are attacking the innocent people of a town and a Palestinian can defend his neighbors, the same analysis has to apply.

Except, the fanatical, violent settlers are given powers and powerful military weapons to use however they like, and Palestinians are prevented having any weapons for defense. The military accompanies the settlers to protect them from any retaliation as they destroy, burn, and kill.

 

[Fledermaus]

What?

Wow. As in wow. Surprise.

That you dodged the questions put to you? That's not even a minor shock.

Says the person dodging the question on denial again and again.

Here's one you dodged................Many of the deaths were people who resistance fighters can legitimately kill and so the claim that the operation itself " wasn't resistance" isn't true is it?

Have I stated otherwise? No.

This is crucial to your claim about the 7th October attack " not being resistance".

Slaughtering concert goers, civilians in their homes, kidnapping civilians..... Whole lot of that going on.

Semantics because you are dodging another question.

Reality because the terms Army and Marine describe specific servicemen.

Considering the mass war criminality of the US military it would be reasonable to, using your own criteria, to consider you a terrorist for your association/involvement, so are you a terrorist?

BUTWHATABOUTMURICA...... Tell us again about tens of thousands of rockets fired into civilian centers were legitimate resistance. The tens of thousands of mortar strikes.

And.... I never committed a single war crime in my twenty years serving.

I haven't spammed this thread or most/all others, that is your MO, copying and pasting your own previous posts, it's on display here again so you are just lying as a way out and using projection to accompany it.

Complaining about spamming.....

 

[Fledermaus]

I get that those with horrific biases/bigoted views don't appreciate standards being applied equally so as to gain a more objective view with which to form an opinion but do you have to do it in such a childish way every time?

Is it aimed at trying to distract the reader from understanding your wish to hang onto that bias at all costs ?

Certainly seems like it to me.

Horrific biases/bigoted views....

Interesting coming from someone who denied for years that Hamas was indeed a terrorist organization.