Armed Militias hold Libya Hostage.....

[MMC]

The US and the EU have cause Libya to fall apart. They had no strategy at all.....other than to take Gadhafi out. To Amass his weapons. The Saud and the Sunni were part of this. The Country is broken apart and become nothing more than the Wild Wild West. What can be done now to bring these people back to being a country? Democracy isn't working.....nor is much else.



Libya's parliament fired Prime Minister Ali Zeidan, who fled to Europe. A few days later, U.S. Navy SEALS boarded the tanker to end the debacle. Libya's parliament agrees on little, its interim government has no army to enforce security let alone impose its will, and a new constitution meant to forge a sense of nation remains undrafted.

In the vacuum, ex-fighters have briefly abducted Zeidan from his Tripoli hotel room, stormed the foreign ministry, and taken over the interior ministry, even before the renegades made their failed attempt to export oil. Lawmakers joke that they may need to use the secret tunnels Gaddafi built under the capital so they can escape the marauding gunmen.

For many Libyans, the joy of freedom after decades under Gaddafi has given way to confusion. Libya has descended into a scramble over the future shape of the nation, with ex-rebel commanders, former exiles, Islamists, tribal leaders, and federalists all jostling for position. At stake is the stability and integrity of this vast North African territory, rich in both oil and gas.

"It's not as though removing Gaddafi was going to mean the ... box would open and out pops Dubai. All the problems that were covered over, papered over or bribed over or suppressed, they are emerging again." But that has often empowered rival militias and created a mishmash of security forces and quasi-official military units. Even on a casual drive outside Tripoli, visitors pass checkpoints manned by guards whose ragtag uniforms are no clue to affiliation.

The former rebel groups, political factions and tribes are proving more loyal to their vision of Libya than to the compromises required in a unified state.

One of the main reasons Libya is failing to pull together is the almost complete absence of strong state institutions.

The United Nations and Western governments have cajoled Libya's factions to keep the transition on track. A committee has been elected to start writing the constitution, and the parliament has agreed it will run elections as soon as possible. The army, built around a core of 8,000, is training with the help of U.S., British, Italian and Turkish aid. But most programs have just started.

"It will be a long way before Libyans realize the importance of building democracy, of building a state, and that using arms is not an option anymore," he said. "The next three to five months are very critical for Libya and will define where the state will go.".....snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/insight-armed-militias-hold-libya-hostage-093153018.html

 

[Rainman05]

Yeah. The militia there are basically either being sponsored and trained by the jihadists affiliated with al-qaeda or backing their own guys as the new "power broker" in the country. It's a mess.

Now of course, I said when this whole Libya thing started, that a lot of the militias who have been formed were islamists. Again, some were genuinely interested in removing ghaddaffi and putting a proper democracy in place, but most were islamists who want to have a country under sharia law. And they still do. And they got their way to some extent. And now they want it all the way.

This is the danger of Sharia law and islamism. There is no real middle ground. It's the sharia way or no way.

 

[24107]

The same thing will happen if Assad falls in Syria, these guys would take over.

 

[Rainman05]

And another thing.

It's not a case of "well there are moderate muslims too". Moderate muslims != muslims who want democracy, ok? They don't share western values like we do. For most moderates, sharia is good. I mean according to the Quoran and the islamic scholars, it was good when it was handed down, it is good today and it will be good in the future.

Let me put it this way.

Moderates doesn't mean anti-islam fanaticism. No, Muslims against islamic fanaticism are that, and in non-islamic countries, they have a voice and less of a chance to get killed for having that voice. Like in the UK where you have Quilliam or something like that.

Sure, not all the Libyans, and quite a great deal of them, don't want war. That is true. That's why when a bunch of loonies attacked the US embassy, you had those beautiful counter protest movements by a lot of people, you remember the pictures, with extremism != muslims and all that. Very beautiful and sincere by people who are not interested in anything but to live a good life. But the difference between the West, and us who believe in western principles, and a lot of the muslims, is how do we get to that good life? We believe in secularism and freedom of religion, separation of Church and State, in man made laws, freedom of expression and speech, etc. they believe that Sharia will get them into that place, the better life and have little to no objection against it.

So really, pro-western people are the pro-western militant groups which are almost all dead or innexistent in the arab world, who are actively going to fight for democracy. The moderates are just that, people who will take it as it comes and live out the best life that they can, as people do. Moderate muslim is not pro-democracy muslims. And we, westerners, need to understand this or else.

 

[MMC]

Yeah. The militia there are basically either being sponsored and trained by the jihadists affiliated with al-qaeda or backing their own guys as the new "power broker" in the country. It's a mess.

Now of course, I said when this whole Libya thing started, that a lot of the militias who have been formed were islamists. Again, some were genuinely interested in removing ghaddaffi and putting a proper democracy in place, but most were islamists who want to have a country under sharia law. And they still do. And they got their way to some extent. And now they want it all the way.

This is the danger of Sharia law and islamism. There is no real middle ground. It's the sharia way or no way.

Heya RM.....this was Always the thorn and Immediate eye Opener for any Arabs, that thought they could take Libya.

Ethnic Amazigh, the berber people who have long felt oppressed by Libya's Arab majority, have also targeted the country's oil infrastructure. Armed Amazigh shut down the vital El Sharara oilfield for two months last year to demand more rights in the new constitution.....snip~

This was something else Gadhafi and the Berbers had no trouble with. Smacking-down Arabs that thought they could just come and take what they want. They never considered themselves Arab and they will never bow nor serve one.

 

[VanceMack]

Viva the Arab Spring and the rebels Obama jumped into bed with.

 

[MMC]

The same thing will happen if Assad falls in Syria, these guys would take over.

You are correct 24.....this is exactly what will happen. Until the Sunni can chase out the Christians and Shia. Nothing but armed roving so called warriors running all about. Yet who was the Main Western Power that caused all of this to take place inside Libya? Who was falsely reporting to the UN that Gadhafi was attacking his own people and gunning them down? Do you think there was a distinction on who the Berbers were actually gunning down inside Libya?


Rival militias are also lined up on competing sides of Libya's divided parliament where Islamists, represented by the Justice and Construction Party, a branch of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, are deadlocked with the National Forces Alliance, a group of nationalist and liberal parties led by a former Gaddafi official.

But the two most powerful groups in the country are the militias west of the capital, one in the mountain town of Zintan and the other in the port city of Misrata. Bristling with weaponry and a sense of entitlement, the rivals both claim the mantle of champions of the revolution. Each brigade is loosely allied to competing political factions, and neither shows any sign of disarming or falling in behind the government in Tripoli.

"We are keeping our weapons, not because we want to end the state, but we are waiting for a real organization to appear," said Khalid Imohammed, a former military commander in Zintan......snip~


Ooops there it is.....a branch of the Egyptian MB. My my my.....same deal with Syria Right? Another Branch of the MB.....huh?

 

[Rainman05]

Heya RM.....this was Always the thorn and Immediate eye Opener for any Arabs, that thought they could take Libya.

Ethnic Amazigh, the berber people who have long felt oppressed by Libya's Arab majority, have also targeted the country's oil infrastructure. Armed Amazigh shut down the vital El Sharara oilfield for two months last year to demand more rights in the new constitution.....snip~

This was something else Gadhafi and the Berbers had no trouble with. Smacking-down Arabs that thought they could just come and take what they want. They never considered themselves Arab and they will never bow nor serve one.

Ok. So Ghaddafi was not a good guy and he was kind of a dick. And we, the west, are partially responsible for the fact that he remained in power for so long.

Now you will see lefty loonies going on saying on how the West is evil for propping up dictators and stealing their resources. This is a very juvenile way to see things. The reality is that the west's greatest method to reach out to developing nations is by trading with them. This is the most effective tool we have.
A prime example of this is Cuba or Vietnam and to a lesser extent is China because China is China and it's gonna China on.

Ok, so I don't know who and what the groups are there and is no surprise. I mean, it doesn't matter what their names are or who their leaders are because if you kill their leader, a new one pops up the next day. There is no power struggle in the way you and I understand power struggle. Like with Al qaeda. Bin Laden is gone, the next day his cousin becomes the leader or what relation he was. Brother or cousin or whatever. And if a group is completely killed, another pops up.

Worrying security situation in Libya - timesofmalta.com

Friday, November 29, 2013, 00:01

Earlier this month, Libya’s deputy intelligence chief, Mustafa Noah, was kidnapped by armed militants, only to be released a day later. Last month, Prime Minister Ali Zeidan himself was kidnapped by a group of former rebels and kept in captivity for several hours.

So this has been going on for months.
And then there is that other bloody network, the one that is also in Yemen and Chad and all of central, eastern and west africa.... who is supplying islamic militant groups now into Central Africa Republic, what's it's name... anyway, that one, as you said, supplies and arms the Berber islamists.

It's not about who created a power vacuum or the fact that there is no strong leadership in Libya. The cat got out of the bag and is tearing the couch, pissing on your clothes, licking the butter and pushed grandma's urn off the counter shattering it on the floor. The only solution now is to kill the cat. And in this case, this cat is more like a bloody tiger. Good luck.

 

[MMC]

Viva the Arab Spring and the rebels Obama jumped into bed with.

Well truthfully VM. :2wave: Obama played follow the Leader on this one.....it wasn't the US that Led the way. If you recall back when all this First Broke. They were telling Gadhafi to step down. They were even willing to grant him Immunity form any Prosecution. Remember Bilbo Clinton getting on TV to send a Personal message to Gadhafi.

How many Europeans were partying up in the Castles in the UK with Gadhafi and his entourage? Who was panicking they would be next with the Economic collapse after the P.I.G.S. in Europe?

Who had filed Resolution after Resolution in the UN. Right after they Chased Gbagbo out of the Ivory Coast? Who was looking to gain short and long term?

 

[24107]

You are correct 24.....this is exactly what will happen. Until the Sunni can chase out the Christians and Shia. Nothing but armed roving so called warriors running all about. Yet who was the Main Western Power that caused all of this to take place inside Libya? Who was falsely reporting to the UN that Gadhafi was attacking his own people and gunning them down? Do you think there was a distinction on who the Berbers were actually gunning down inside Libya?


Rival militias are also lined up on competing sides of Libya's divided parliament where Islamists, represented by the Justice and Construction Party, a branch of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, are deadlocked with the National Forces Alliance, a group of nationalist and liberal parties led by a former Gaddafi official.

But the two most powerful groups in the country are the militias west of the capital, one in the mountain town of Zintan and the other in the port city of Misrata. Bristling with weaponry and a sense of entitlement, the rivals both claim the mantle of champions of the revolution. Each brigade is loosely allied to competing political factions, and neither shows any sign of disarming or falling in behind the government in Tripoli.

"We are keeping our weapons, not because we want to end the state, but we are waiting for a real organization to appear," said Khalid Imohammed, a former military commander in Zintan......snip~


Ooops there it is.....a branch of the Egyptian MB. My my my.....same deal with Syria Right? Another Branch of the MB.....huh?

Your right, Christians in Syria prefer Assad over the rebels who want to kill them.

 

[VanceMack]

Well truthfully VM. :2wave: Obama played follow the Leader on this one.....it wasn't the US that Led the way. If you recall back when all this First Broke. They were telling Gadhafi to step down. They were even willing to grant him Immunity form any Prosecution. Remember Bilbo Clinton getting on TV to send a Personal message to Gadhafi.

How many Europeans were partying up in the Castles in the UK with Gadhafi and his entourage? Who was panicking they would be next with the Economic collapse after the P.I.G.S. in Europe?

Who had filed Resolution after Resolution in the UN. Right after they Chased Gbagbo out of the Ivory Coast? Who was looking to gain short and long term?

Libya was just one of several locations that is in complete and utter chaos today caused by the celebrated 'arab spring' that dear leader supported. Funny...he didnt support the rebellions in Saudi Arabia or Bahrain...

 

[24107]

Just thought this video is worth adding.

 

[MMC]

Libya was just one of several locations that is in complete and utter chaos today caused by the celebrated 'arab spring' that dear leader supported. Funny...he didnt support the rebellions in Saudi Arabia or Bahrain...

Remember when the Saud sent Security Forces into Bahrain? The only reason we didn't lay any smackdown on them was due to our Military and that Port.

Do you think going into the future and manning floating and or Military Installations in International waters can helps us get a better handle on dealing with those in Foreign Countries?

 

[VanceMack]

Remember when the Saud sent Security Forces into Bahrain? The only reason we didn't lay any smackdown on them was due to our Military and that Port.

Do you think going into the future and manning floating and or Military Installations in International waters can helps us get a better handle on dealing with those in Foreign Countries?

I think what will help will be people in this country getting abetter grip on THEIR reality. The middle east is a completely different animal than the US.

 

[MMC]

I think what will help will be people in this country getting abetter grip on THEIR reality. The middle east is a completely different animal than the US.

Still.....Libya is like the East West Passage. The Berbers will never accept any Arabs ruling over them. Take a look at what is happening if their politicians aren't backed by some Militia.

Now you think about what Team Obama and what went down in Benghazi. Even when you had some of these alleged leaders looking to help out. Then when they did and warned us about some events. Team Obama ignored their warnings. Which resulted in our Ambassador being killed. To top it off.....Hill-dog and her dept hired the militia that attacked us. Now let her come with that stupid statement she made.

Obama says he will get those who did so. But the investigation has gone nowhere with the Libyans. Any that touches the case being Judges, Cops, Investigators or Politicians. They get Kidnapped or worse.

Again.....the reason we should be looking at who is the Main culprit and cause here. Is so that they can take their weight in the PC world that's been developed. Sure we screwed up. But that was after already being drawn in and Obama following the one that was the started it all.

 

[VanceMack]

Still.....Libya is like the East West Passage. The Berbers will never accept any Arabs ruling over them. Take a look at what is happening if their politicians aren't backed by some Militia.

Now you think about what Team Obama and what went down in Benghazi. Even when you had some of these alleged leaders looking to help out. Then when they did and warned us about some events. Team Obama ignored their warnings. Which resulted in our Ambassador being killed. To top it off.....Hill-dog and her dept hired the militia that attacked us. Now let her come with that stupid statement she made.

Obama says he will get those who did so. But the investigation has gone nowhere with the Libyans. Any that touches the case being Judges, Cops, Investigators or Politicians. They get Kidnapped or worse.

Again.....the reason we should be looking at who is the Main culprit and cause here. Is so that they can take their weight in the PC world that's been developed. Sure we screwed up. But that was after already being drawn in and Obama following the one that was the started it all.

I'm sure they are reacting with great fear at Obama's threat.

 

[MMC]

Looks Like the UK will now have the Pen on Libya.....which means we will be playing follow the leader on this one again.


March 2014 Monthly Forecast.....

In March, the Council is expected to renew the mandate of the UN Support Mission in Libya (UNSMIL). Tarek Mitri, the Special Representative of the Secretary-General and head of UNSMIL, is expected to brief the Council on the Secretary-General’s latest report.

The Council will also likely renew the mandate of the Panel of Experts (PoE) assisting the 1970 Libya Sanctions Committee and the Council expects a briefing by its chair, Ambassador Eugène-Richard Gasana (Rwanda).

The mandates of UNSMIL and the PoE expire on 16 March and 14 April, respectively.

Political leaders and security force members continue to be targeted. The Deputy Industry Minister was killed in Sirte on 11 January and Deputy Prime Minister al-Sidiq Abdelkarim survived an assassination attempt on 29 January. The disruption of oil production by federalist regional leaders seeking to profit from the oil trade in the east and clashes between rival militias that resulted in the closure of oil facilities and power stations seriously impacted the economy and produced water and electricity shortages in the Cyrenaica region and its capital, Benghazi.

The lack of stability in the country has sparked anti-government protests. On 14 January, armed protestors attacked the GNC, demanding Prime Minister Ali Zeidan’s resignation. On 21 January, the Islamist Justice and Construction Party pulled its five ministers from the cabinet. There have been several attempts to pass a motion of no-confidence at the GNC, but they have fallen short of support among members. On 14 February, Major General Khalifa Haftar, a leading figure in the 2011 revolution, announced a coup against the government, which was denied by the government the same day. On 18 February, militias from Zintan gave the GNC a five-hour ultimatum to dissolve that was not finally upheld.

The final report of the PoE was circulated to Council members on 15 February. The report identifies the proliferation of weapons to and from Libya as a major challenge for the stability of the country and the region given that “most weapons are still under the control of non-state armed actors and border control systems remain ineffective”.

Key Issues

An overarching issue is the deteriorating security situation due to the existence of militias that challenge the state’s monopoly on the legitimate use of force. The fragility of the government and the continual threats against the GNC are related issues.

Breaking the stalemate in the political process and ensuring the swift work of the CDA is a key issue. Ensuring the inclusivity of the entire political process is a related issue. (Tabu, Amazigh and Tuareg groups boycotted the elections for the CDA in late February.).....snip~

Libya : March 2014 Monthly Forecast : Security Council Report

 

[MMC]

I'm sure they are reacting with great fear at Obama's threat.

Its not Obama any more.....The UN Security Council passed a Chapter 7 Resolution Thursday.


The United Nations Security Council last week passed a Chapter VII resolution that authorizes U.N. member states to board vessels and return any oil illegally seized from Libyan ports to the Libyan government. The resolution was in response to the U.S. Navy's capture -- at Tripoli's request -- of oil tanker Morning Glory, a North Korean-flagged ship, in international waters of the Mediterranean Sea. The ship had taken on a cargo of oil from a rebel-held port in eastern Libya.

Read more: Europe expresses concern over Libya's economic health - UPI.com

 

[MMC]

Just thought this video is worth adding.

Heya 24.....you should drop that in here.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/189704-obama-may-allow-air-defense-help-syria-rebels.html



But here is what happened last week here in Libya.


Weekly Security Report by SNE Special Projects 25th March 2014

Weekly Security Report by SNE Special Projects 25th March 2014 | Libya Business News