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Y'know, I've seen a lot of inane and poorly devised arguments here. This has got to rank with the worst of them.
The United States is not the entire planet. In fact, the surface area of the continental United States is 1.58% of the planet. Temperatures in the US are not in lock step with the entire planet. And when you look at the raw data, there is STILL a clear trend of rising temperatures.
This is a chart of both raw and adjusted GLOBAL temperatures. We are, after all, talking about GLOBAL warming:
Back in the real world: Every dataset of global averages makes adjustments these days. Scientists have done this for decades. It's all public. Anyone with a basic familiarity with the science knows about them, and why they're made. Note the adjustments overall are quite small, particularly after 1940; and of course, the adjustments before 1940 actually revised temperatures up. This is no different than calibrating a telescope or mass spectrometer.
In a move that is equal parts hilarious and sad, the deniers will complain when the data is adjusted -- and complain when it ISN'T adjusted. If it's adjusted to compensate for urban encroachment on measuring stations, then it's a fix! If it isn't adjusted, then they're allowing an artificial bias and... it's fixed!
I mean, really. Your idea of a "scam" is scientists who publish the raw data, the adjusted data, and the actual scripts you can use to adjust the data yourself? Whose adjustments show less warming in the past, and almost no adjustments now?
Those types of arguments are not rational, they're not scientific. That's just straight-up denial.
What does this have to do with the alleged cooling in the OP?
Originally Posted by Deuce
"Substantially lower temperatures of the last many months?"
2017 was the 2nd warmest year in this instrumental record. What lower temperatures are you referencing?
A few months ago it was winter, dude. That's why it got colder.
The statement sounds an awful lot like those political rants we been hearing from partisan political factions in the news lately. Like we all know that a "year" can neither be cold nor warm, it's just a unit of time.
What you're probably thinking of is something like say, the earth's biosphere? Could you please share w/ us any records you have of temperature measurements along w/ info on what part of the biosphere got measured? A link to actual raw temp measurements would be great. Let's please understand that so called "anomalies" or "deviations from averages" can easily be fudged by political hacks after ignoring and deleting the original readings, that's why the original numbers are so important.
If you can do that then we could compare the readings to older readings to see how far off we've gone.
"Math? What Math? I don' see no friggin math"
How much did my mother weigh at birth?
You can consult all the mathematicians you need and I'll tell you how close they got
The statement sounds an awful lot like those political rants we been hearing from partisan political factions in the news lately. Like we all know that a "year" can neither be cold nor warm, it's just a unit of time.
What you're probably thinking of is something like say, the earth's biosphere? Could you please share w/ us any records you have of temperature measurements along w/ info on what part of the biosphere got measured? A link to actual raw temp measurements would be great. Let's please understand that so called "anomalies" or "deviations from averages" can easily be fudged by political hacks after ignoring and deleting the original readings, that's why the original numbers are so important.
If you can do that then we could compare the readings to older readings to see how far off we've gone.
The highest temperatures in a non-urban and non-suburban area is still from the 30's. I will still contend modern temperature readings are skewed by meteorological stations being close to and in developed areas.
if 97% of the scientist agree.that is good enough for me. If you went to a surgeon and they said they could remove your appendix with a small hole in your abdomen and that surgery method was accepted by 97% of the surgeons you would think that was a consensus. Now 3% said they could remove it by going up your arse......which method would you choose. Lets be clear I am realistic the people who have been studying this their whole lives I will defer to them. Not a bunch of guys in their underpants in their basement offering the world their opinions on a website. Again what are their credentials for even implying they know diddlie squat on the subject
The urban heat island effect has been discussed to death. It's a non-issue.
if 97% of the scientist agree.that is good enough for me. If you went to a surgeon and they said they could remove your appendix with a small hole in your abdomen and that surgery method was accepted by 97% of the surgeons you would think that was a consensus. Now 3% said they could remove it by going up your arse......which method would you choose. Lets be clear I am realistic the people who have been studying this their whole lives I will defer to them. Not a bunch of guys in their underpants in their basement offering the world their opinions on a website. Again what are their credentials for even implying they know diddlie squat on the subject
Usually when we talk about raw data we're talking about the original readings as recorded --and the readings are packed into data sets for everyone to see (kind of like what we got here). Now, the guy at NOAA who said his "anomaly" numbers were "raw" was fudging --and yes, sometimes it's possible for guys working w/ the gov't can fudge numbers even while wearing a white coat.This is a chart of both raw and adjusted GLOBAL temperatures. We are, after all, talking about GLOBAL warming:
.
My own experiance is that even if we took the climatechange numbers for temps to date as fact, we still don't have any kind of change more severe than what we've had in the past few millenia.The highest temperatures in a non-urban and non-suburban area is still from the 30's. I will still contend modern temperature readings are skewed by meteorological stations being close to and in developed areas.
That's just it, I'm not making a claim. I'm not saying the globe's warming, cooling, or staying the same. I'm trying to find out what you're saying about climate --and hey, if all you want to talk about is that the climate's bad and it's all my fault because I'm a bad guy then go ahead and enjoy believing what you want. I'm just interested in this climate thing folks are upset about....exactly what did you base your temperature claim on?
Am I experiencing cooling? In my neck of the woods Central Ohio, I have to say yes for a few years now. Of course Winter is suppose to be cold in these parts but it keeps starting earlier and lasting longer. We are 2/3 through March and we are still experiencing low averages in the 20's.
Greetings, Vesper. :2wave:
:agree: In addition to actually living with longer cool periods here in NE Ohio, I have 25 years of gardening records that prove it, and I tend to believe my own records in spite of what the IPCC says! :thumbs: I didn't start out keeping climate records for any particular reason back then, but I'm glad I did because gardening is hard work, and I started seeing that some veggies that I grew previously did not have time to mature with the shorter growing season that became the norm. :shrug:
Not only do some not have an opportunity to mature in the Fall months, those early veggies in the Spring like leaf lettuce, peas, spinach get seeded so late because of the ground is either too wet or too cold covered in snow. You can forget about a double crop because you had to wait so long to seed that the temps become too hot for a second crop to mature.
The last few years the corn has not been knee high by July 4th and the long anticipated tomatoes are taking longer to ripen on the vine. And things like Summer squashes are not ripe in Summer but rather early Fall.
Yeah gardening is a lot of work but dang I love digging in the dirt.
If you really think about what has been said on both sides...
Do you think the''re because of natural variations, or changes from man.
If you think this is mostly changes by man, is it because of CO2 , or land use changes?
Not only do some not have an opportunity to mature in the Fall months, those early veggies in the Spring like leaf lettuce, peas, spinach get seeded so late because of the ground is either too wet or too cold covered in snow. You can forget about a double crop because you had to wait so long to seed that the temps become too hot for a second crop to mature.
The last few years the corn has not been knee high by July 4th and the long anticipated tomatoes are taking longer to ripen on the vine. And things like Summer squashes are not ripe in Summer but rather early Fall.
Yeah gardening is a lot of work but dang I love digging in the dirt.
Your opinion is not fact.
At least I have an open mind to things. Keep yourselves in a box if you like.
I don't know how you can claim it is a non-issue, and complain about heat related deaths.
If you really think about what has been said on both sides...
Do you think the''re because of natural variations, or changes from man.
If you think this is mostly changes by man, is it because of CO2 , or land use changes?
Usually when we talk about raw data we're talking about the original readings as recorded --and the readings are packed into data sets for everyone to see (kind of like what we got here). Now, the guy at NOAA who said his "anomaly" numbers were "raw" was fudging --and yes, sometimes it's possible for guys working w/ the gov't can fudge numbers even while wearing a white coat.
What's important right here and now is that you sound like you're trying to tell me that the earth is in some kind of climate danger that involves like, "heat". If you're saying the "globe" is "warming" I'd be super grateful if you could take the time to say what part of the globe is heating and just why this heating is worse than the heating we've had before.
go ahead & change it if you want, just copy & paste it into Windows Paint & have at it. Graphs are super easy to fudge, political hacks do it all day long. That's why I like actual temp measurements --in this wonderful info age of ours getting the numbers has been easier by the day and w/ hard numbers we can graph/excel our brains out!
do let me know how it goes or if you want to put it together right here on this thread.
I like temperature measurements too. I have a device that tells me the temperature of my backyard. it's called a "thermometer."
What kind of device measures the temperature of the world?
Yes, that's what we are talking about with the instrumental records.Usually when we talk about raw data we're talking about the original readings as recorded....
What's with the scare quotes? Temperature anomalies are a basic concept in climate science.Now, the guy at NOAA who said his "anomaly" numbers were "raw" was fudging --and yes, sometimes it's possible for guys working w/ the gov't can fudge numbers even while wearing a white coat.
Egads.What's important right here and now is that you sound like you're trying to tell me that the earth is in some kind of climate danger that involves like, "heat". If you're saying the "globe" is "warming" I'd be super grateful if you could take the time to say what part of the globe is heating and just why this heating is worse than the heating we've had before.
Whole crapload of thermometers.
More recently, satellites.
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