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Monday, 30th November, the case Trump v. New York will be argued before the Supreme Court.
The Court's decision in the case may or may not affect the 2020 elections. The Trump administration will be arguing that "undocumented immigrants" (illegal aliens) should not be considered "persons" for the purpose of congressional representation numbers. Trump has said, on more than one occasion that some states are over-represented in Congress due to the number of illegals in those states.
The 14th Amendment, Section 2 would appear to contradict Trump while supporting the idea that all humans/persons should be counted during the national census that takes place every 10 years. Although the Amendment does state that "Indians not taxed" were not to be counted. Native Americans did not become American citizens until the passage of the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924, even after the passage of that Act some states refused to call Indians "citizens' if they lived on a designated reservation, until 1957.
Really? What's the limit in the US?
Exactly. There is no limit, contrary to the claim." You may bring large sums of money with you in the form of cash, money order, or traveler's checks. There is no maximum limit, however, any amount exceeding $10,000 USD must be declared upon arrival on both the Form 6059B and FinCEN 105. "
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Civil asset forfeiture is a problem.You should also know that in some US states, a police officer could impound that cash if he/she suspects it is from illegal activity such as drug dealing.
They say that you're innocent until proven guilty, but that's only for people, inanimate objects are guilty until proven innocent.
Please cite me an instance of CBP seizing currency based on nothing more than mere suspicion that the cash has an illicit source.This also applies to customs officers.
Civil asset forfeiture is a problem.
Exactly. There is no limit, contrary to the claim.
Civil asset forfeiture is a problem.
Please cite me an instance of CBP seizing currency based on nothing more than mere suspicion that the cash has an illicit source.
I'll wait.
Not really. More than $10,000 requires completion of a FinCEN 105, and only when entering or leaving the United States. That's it.But it subject to controls...quite restrictive control actually
I'm asking you for an example of CBP seizing currency based on nothing more than mere suspicion of an illicit source.Are you actually going to tell me it doesn't ever happen ?
Really? What's the limit in the US?
I know. I am well aware of currency reporting requirements at the border. And I know there is no limit to how much currency or negotiable instruments a person may carry across the border, or even just through the airport, contrary to your initial claim.$10,000 if traveling internationally is the limit where you have to declare it.
I know. I am well aware of currency reporting requirements at the border. And I know there is no limit to how much currency or negotiable instruments a person may carry across the border, or even just through the airport, contrary to your initial claim.
Even better: I gave you the opportunity to refute your own claim. And you did.Oh so you were just being condescending rather than refuting the point i was making.
Even better: I gave you the opportunity to refute your own claim. And you did.
Not really. More than $10,000 requires completion of a FinCEN 105, and only when entering or leaving the United States. That's it.
I'm asking you for an example of CBP seizing currency based on nothing more than mere suspicion of an illicit source.
I didnt, but clearly youre not interested in the actual debate.
Literally there is a limit to how much cash you can bring through an airport for example, or all the way up to bitcoin, stock or bank deposits.
...because, as you acknowledge, there is no limit to how much cash you can bring through an airport.$10,000 if traveling internationally is the limit where you have to declare it.
All you have to do is fill out a form if the amount is greater than $10,000 and you walk out of Customs with all your money. I can't think of any universe in which "quite restrictive" fits that as an accurate description.As I said, quite restrictive controls
Since it doesn't allege a single instance, ever, of US Customs & Border Protection seizing currency based on nothing more than mere suspicion, no it isn't enough.That web page isn't enough ?
As I said, civil asset forfeiture is a problem. But that wasn't the allegation to which I was responding:Why do you think it exists if seizures don't happen? Do you think that attorney set it up in the remote chance it might happen to someone, some day in the future ?
Btw, in some states a policeman can seize the cash your carrying on mere suspicion that it came from illegal activity like drug dealing/smuggling
And if that happens, then YOU have to prove it was earned legitimately, and not the DA's office who has the burden to prove it was not.
This also applies to customs officers.
Except you did...
...because, as you acknowledge, there is no limit to how much cash you can bring through an airport.
Was your point to make a demonstrably false claim? If not, I gave you an opportunity to correct the error, and you took it. If being wrong was your point, then I stopped people from believing your error.I didnt, you are not comprehending my point,
I want to keep people from believing things that are objectively false. Mission accomplished.Do you want to discuss the topic that I refuted to about how money is free, but people arent?
Was your point to make a demonstrably false claim? If not, I gave you an opportunity to correct the error, and you took it. If being wrong was your point, then I stopped people from believing your error.
I want to keep people from believing things that are objectively false. Mission accomplished.
The census will count everyone. It will also ask if they are a citizen.
All you have to do is fill out a form if the amount is greater than $10,000 and you walk out of Customs with all your money. I can't think of any universe in which "quite restrictive" fits that as an accurate description.
Since it doesn't allege a single instance, ever, of US Customs & Border Protection seizing currency based on nothing more than mere suspicion, no it isn't enough.
As I said, civil asset forfeiture is a problem. But that wasn't the allegation to which I was responding:
Except that's not what we've been talking about. What we've been talking about is carrying currency across the border. There is no restriction on doing so, you don't have to explain it, though you do have to spend three and a half minutes writing some information (name, destination address, passport info, amount and type of currency, etc.) on a piece of paper.This universe. The US government tightly restricts deposits of large amounts of cash, and if you're caught carrying more than $10k, you'll need to be able to explain it
Because of civil asset forfeiture that goes on inside the US, not at the border, and not by CBP.So why do you think it exists ?
No, I'm accusing you of not sticking to the topic of currency reporting requirements at the border.Are you accusing that web site of publishing false information ?
And that process is known as civil asset forfeiture.It's cash/asset seizure not forfeiture.
Again, you're drifting. We are talking about currency, not merchandise. Further, I find your description of events highly suspect, as it's incredibly unlikely CBP seized the merchandise in question. If they did anything, they detained it, which is not the same thing. If the only question was where the watch was purchased, the lawyer was overkill. Further, I hope the lawyer (or CBP) advised your friend he can easily avoid such issues in the future by completing a CBP Form 4457, "Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad." I would have my pricey goods registered in such a fashion if I ever traveled abroad with them. As it is, the only expensive items I typically transport across the border are my computer and camera gear. The computer is easily proven to be a non-recent purchase, and imaging equipment is generally free of duty from almost all countries of origin anyway.Another example would be customs. If you return to the USA, from say Dubai, wearing a $10,000 gold Rolex watch, a customs officer can seize it on suspicion you bought it overseas and haven't paid duty on it (and, assuming that you did, you have to furnish proof)
I am aware of such a case Btw, a man had actually bought an expensive watch in the USA (and paid tax on it), but wore it overseas and when he returned, customs seized it and he had to get a lawyer to get his watch back for him using the receipt he got when buying it.
I am reminded of the US Immigration questionnaire, non-citizens must fill in upon arrival to the USA by plane. They're handed out as the plane approaches the USA.
I've only ever filled them out on airplanes but assume land borders are the same or very similar
One of the questions asks if you're coming to the USA to overthrow the government. Has anyone in their right mind answered "Yes"
Ditto the census. Would anyone in their right mind include illegal aliens ?
"Federal funds, grants and support to states, counties and communities are based on population totals and breakdowns by sex, age, race and other factors. Your community benefits the most when the census counts everyone. When you respond to the census, you help your community gets its fair share of the more than $675 billion per year in federal funds spent on schools, hospitals, roads, public works and other vital programs. "
Why We Conduct the Decennial Census of Population and Housing
The information the census collects helps to determine how more than $400 billion dollars of federal funding each year is spent on infrastructure and services.www.census.gov
Remind me which states don't comply with "illegal immigration enforcement" ?
Which states/cities "encourage illegal immigrants to shelter there while they shield them from law enforcement" ?
Please specify those states and give evidence to support you unsubstantiated claims.
New York for one. We even passed the Green Light Law, which allows illegal immigrants to obtain a driver license.
...what we've been talking about is carrying currency across the border. There is no restriction on doing so, you don't have to explain it...
Because of civil asset forfeiture that goes on inside the US, not at the border, and not by CBP.
No, I'm accusing you of not sticking to the topic of currency reporting requirements at the border.
Again, you're drifting. We are talking about currency, not merchandise.
Further, I find your description of events highly suspect, as it's incredibly unlikely CBP seized the merchandise in question. If they did anything, they detained it, which is not the same thing.
If the only question was where the watch was purchased, the lawyer was overkill. Further, I hope the lawyer (or CBP) advised your friend he can easily avoid such issues in the future by completing a CBP Form 4457, "Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad." I would have my pricey goods registered in such a fashion if I ever traveled abroad with them. As it is, the only expensive items I typically transport across the border are my computer and camera gear. The computer is easily proven to be a non-recent purchase, and imaging equipment is generally free of duty from almost all countries of origin anyway.
No, you really really don't.Absolutely you do (have to explain it)
I readily believe CBP seizes millions of dollars per year. What I don't believe is that CBP seizes millions of dollars per year based on nothing more than a mere suspicion that the money has an illicit source, and the seizures are not based on a failure to declare, or something more solid like probable cause.The web page I posted actually refers to customs seizing "millions of dollars" per year
And for some reason, you don't believe this ?
If you don't know the distinction between "at the border" versus "inside the US," and the differing roles of CBP and local/county/state law enforcement, then you really have no business discussing the finer points of this topic.LOL, yes it ***IS*** inside the USA
Customs agents can hardly act on FOREIGN territory
Except you haven't provided a shred of evidence that CBP seizes cash based on a mere suspicion of illegal activity. Quote the passage that states such on the web page you cited. Or, better yet, go find a news source instead of a law firm's advertisement.And I'm accusing you of sticking your head in the sand and outright ignoring what that attorney's web site clearly states
Don't care, that's not the point I'm arguing. I have in fact repeatedly said that civil asset forfeiture is a problem in the US. Not only am I not arguing this point, I'm actually agreeing with you that it's an issue to be addressed.And Btw, a policeman in some states has the same powers when it comes to seizing cash. I mention this to illustrate that an INANIMATE object (such as a bundle of cash) is guilty until proven innocent (and not the other way round as it is with people)
I'm not struggling to grasp anything. The distinction between the merchandise and the currency is that the merchandise (watch) is subject to duty if purchased overseas and being imported for the first time. Therefore, if it is reasonable to suspect a foreign origin, documentation can be demanded to support a claim of domestic purchase (or previous importation), and the merchandise can be detained. Currency is subject to no tax or duty and may be freely imported; its source is not typically questioned, probably because it's not at all suspicious for large amounts of money to be legitimately crossing the border.Both are inanimate objects and both are treated the same legally - and that is somehow the point you're struggling to grasp
A seizure is a final taking of property based on a violation of law or regulation. A detention is a temporary holding of property while a determination is made as to that property's status.Please explain the legal difference between seizure and detention. Your grasping at straws is becoming comical
Shut up baby, I know it.You're so smart
I am aware of plenty of people who do this. The most common item I'm aware of people registering is firearms (and their attached optics) for overseas hunting trips. Camera gear is also not rare, but is ultimately unnecessary.However I don't know anyone who does this, and if customs seized your $10,000 watch, you might well hire a lawyer to get it back. I know I would.
No, you really really don't.
...what I don't believe is that CBP seizes millions of dollars per year based on nothing more than a mere suspicion that the money has an illicit source...
If you don't know the distinction between "at the border" versus "inside the US," and the differing roles of CBP and local/county/state law enforcement, then you really have no business discussing the finer points of this topic.
Except you haven't provided a shred of evidence that CBP seizes cash based on a mere suspicion of illegal activity. Quote the passage that states such on the web page you cited. Or, better yet, go find a news source instead of a law firm's advertisement.
Don't care, that's not the point I'm arguing....
I'm not struggling to grasp anything. The distinction between the merchandise and the currency is that the merchandise (watch) is subject to duty if purchased overseas and being imported for the first time. Therefore, if it is reasonable to suspect a foreign origin, documentation can be demanded to support a claim of domestic purchase (or previous importation), and the merchandise can be detained. Currency is subject to no tax or duty and may be freely imported; its source is not typically questioned, probably because it's not at all suspicious for large amounts of money to be legitimately crossing the border.
A seizure is a final taking of property based on a violation of law or regulation. A detention is a temporary holding of property while a determination is made as to that property's status.
Shut up baby, I know it.
I am aware of plenty of people who do this. The most common item I'm aware of people registering is firearms (and their attached optics) for overseas hunting trips. Camera gear is also not rare, but is ultimately unnecessary.
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