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Are gay people born that way or is it a choice?

Are people born gay?

  • Yes

    Votes: 48 70.6%

  • No

    Votes: 20 29.4%
  • Total voters
    68
Navy Pride said:
Duke now one more time......I want you to concentrate like a laser beam ok........Gays have exactly the same rights I do........They can marry someone of the opposite sex the same as me...........I can't marry to women or a member of my family.....
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Why don't you focus like space telescope too? A homosexual pair do not have have the same rights as a heterosexual pair. They cannot marry.


Duke
 
Navy Pride said:
Because if they did that it might throw out the theory that they are a minority like African Americans or women........
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Women are hardly a minority.

On the planet... and in the united states.. in eugenics in general... women have overpopulated men since we can remember. That is a fact.
 
Navy Pride said:
Because if they did that it might throw out the theory that they are a minority like African Americans or women........
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Since when were women a minority? I think they are a (slight) majority, actually.


Duke
 


So is it a opinion then that their brain's are different? Is the PET scan technology biased? Is neuroscience using objective markers (ie: response to SSRIs etc). just opinions? Are these neuroscientists absolutely right about other brain differences (alzheimers, Parkinson's etc.) but absolutely wrong about the brain differences of homosexuals?

you are absolutely right, though, we don't know if they were born that way or does something in the environment change their brain and behavior later?

There is no question there is a biological difference and the monozygotic twin epidemiological studies are as solid as lung cancer epidimiological studies. The 60% homosexuality rate among females with CAH defies "psycological or social condiitoning" since their adrenal gland diagnoses are very spedific and not based on opinions.

But did it get triggered when epigenetic material reacted to environmental stimuli? My contention is that some are born that way, some carry the gene and something in the environment triggers it (this is like TypII diabetes where people carry the gene and obesity triggers it.) and some are socially conditioned. All three are opinions, but the fact that it has a biological bais, is not. (and I have provided sites directly to the studies so you can critique the methodology)
 
Duke said:
Since when were women a minority? I think they are a (slight) majority, actually.


Duke
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They have minority status because of their smaller representation in key positions (ie managerial or government) along with their small percentage in institutes of higher education. Although, several of these trends are reversing today and some colleges have admitted to practicing affirmative action for men.
 
Navy Pride said:
Because if they did that it might throw out the theory that they are a minority like African Americans or women........
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Can someone edify me on how this is related to the scientific data that homosexuality can have biological basis? (all objective). Not one of the studies I mentioned cared $hit about their actual census status.....and isn't African American and being female biologicaally determined (in this case chromosomally ) as well? I don't see the point.
 
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Duke said:
Why don't you focus like space telescope too? A homosexual pair do not have have the same rights as a heterosexual pair. They cannot marry.


Duke
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OK, lets change the law for gays and polygamysts and people that want to marry someone in their family...............Is that alright with you because the equal protection phrase in the 14th amendment protects everyone.....


Canada approved gay marriage and now they are getting lawsuits because people that practice polygamy want to marry too..............
 

And that's a problem why? Is there a reason that consenting adults should not be able to bind themselves together in any way that they please?
 
Engimo said:
And that's a problem why? Is there a reason that consenting adults should not be able to bind themselves together in any way that they please?
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If you don't know I can't tell you my friend..........
 

For the same reason that heterosexual marriage did not open up marriage to anyone. In fact, it is more likely that heterosexual marriage would encourage polygamists to push for marriage rights since a polygamous marriage is (usually) one of multiple heterosexual couples. Changing the law to allow two people of the same sex to marry would in no way allow people to marry multiple people. At least, polygamists would have no more claims to being wronged then they already do.
 

Straight marriage is the law...............You need to read the equal protection clause in the 14th amendment...........If you change the law for one you will have to change the law for other classes of choice too.......
 
Navy Pride said:
If you don't know I can't tell you my friend..........
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I'm sorry, but we live in a country where our laws are supposed to be, you know, justified by secular reasons.
 


**Just like there is often the runt in the litter that gets the short end of the stick (sort of speak), who will often turn out gay--there is always the chance that in a big solid family that the parents dote on a favorite son or daughter. Too much fawning attention can lead to social abnormality with this prodigal son or daughter. The key here (other than the environmental factor)--is that there always becomes an abnormality with the gay person in question. You do accept that homosexuality is an abnormality...don't you? So an environment abnormality equals a homosexual abnormality. See how my scientific equation uses fact over the scientists theory evaluation? Stick with me kid, we'll go a long way together with our tenure here on 'Debate politics'. Oh, it isn't a choice that a person has in becoming gay. It's a learned conditioning factor from their environment--be it from trauma or a dysfunctional life etc. They didn't choose that path; it was a matter of fate.

KidTim
 
bandaidwoman said:
Once again, what you say is no doubt true with a certain percentage of homosexuals ,( what percentage I don't know) but no one has yet refuted any of the biological studies I threw up there, especially the brain studies.
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I too am a scientist, but I have always wondered about the reliablity of those brain chemistry studies. When you get mad (which is a choice), your brain chemistry changes (adrenalin and such). Who is to say whether the chemistry differences scientists see in those studies are the source of homosexuality or the product of a homosexual "choice?"
 

You're clearly not a neuroscientist, then. The changes that happen to your brain when you are mad are not fundamental alterations of the structure of the brain, as the observed ones in homosexuals are. Changes in brain chemistry due to anger, love, or other emotions are temporary - the ones we're talking about are physical differences in the way the brain is laid out.
 
Navy Pride said:
Straight marriage is the law...............You need to read the equal protection clause in the 14th amendment...........If you change the law for one you will have to change the law for other classes of choice too.......
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Did you hear that Conservatives have been proven right about their "slippery slope" argument involving gay marriage? (i.e., if you legalize gay marriage, then the undefining of marriage will lead to the legalization of polygamy)

Canada legalized gay marriage. Just recently, they were forced to eat their words on polygamy:


http://web.lexis-nexis.com.proxy.li...b-zSkVA&_md5=142cdd6363a1bf5c8d951627ba0a281b
 

The ridiculous part of the slippery slope argument is not the legalization of polygamy, it is the claims of legalization of bestiality, necrophilia, paedophilia, rape, and other things that are not comparable to the consentual union of two (or more) adults.
 


Ahhh. I see. so there is a pattern of homosexual brains being physically, structurally built the same way from one to another, but significantly distinguishable from heteros'?

If so, give me a link, because that is the kind of info that would fundamentally change my view on this.
 


Basically, hormonal problems during the formation of the hypothalmus can result in fundamental change in the structure of the brain that gives men homosexual tendencies and effeminate characteristics.
 
Navy Pride said:
Straight marriage is the law...............You need to read the equal protection clause in the 14th amendment...........If you change the law for one you will have to change the law for other classes of choice too.......
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Well, if heterosexuals can get married, why can't a man and two women? Why can't a man and his sister? Those are all heterosexual relationships. What allows two heterosexuals to get married that prevents three?
 
Kelzie said:
Well, if heterosexuals can get married, why can't a man and two women? Why can't a man and his sister? Those are all heterosexual relationships. What allows two heterosexuals to get married that prevents three?
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Marrying your sister is stupid and it would be immoral in my opinion. I don't think incest is a spiritually or physically healthy thing to practice. Having a child with someone that close to you might lead to the child being retarded.
 


I know legalizing gay marriage opens up a whole bucket of worms........The canucks are finding that out now......
 
George_Washington said:
Marrying your sister is stupid and it would be immoral in my opinion. I don't think incest is a spiritually or physically healthy thing to practice. Having a child with someone that close to you might lead to the child being retarded.
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While inbreeding does carry a higher risk of birth defects, the actual risk of that has been slightly overstated. What about people with, say, sickle-cell anemia? Should we prevent them from being married because they might have deformed or diseased children?

Listen, if two consenting adults want to come together in a union, who are we to stop them? It seems to go against all conservative ideology to want to interfere in the private lives of two citizens who are harming no one else with their actions.
 
George_Washington said:
Marrying your sister is stupid and it would be immoral in my opinion. I don't think incest is a spiritually or physically healthy thing to practice. Having a child with someone that close to you might lead to the child being retarded.
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I happen to agree, but that's Navy's big thing. Must have a really hot sister. Anyway, his argument is that they don't have to reproduce, they could just be getting married for the benefits.
 


Your source does not work; and no one wants to undefine marriage, but redefine. Is there a part of this that you do not understand?


Duke
 
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