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Are gay people born that way or is it a choice?

Are people born gay?

  • Yes

    Votes: 48 70.6%
  • No

    Votes: 20 29.4%

  • Total voters
    68

barfolemew

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I do not believe gays have a choice. I believe they are born gay.
 
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I think it's a combonation of genetics and the enviornment one is exposed to.
 

M14 Shooter

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If homosexuality is genetic, how has the gene carried forward through so many generations?

If people with blue eyes, dominant and recessive, stop reproducing, in how many generations will blue eyes die out?

Yes, of course, homosexuals do, sometimes, reproduce -- but is it in enough numbers to carry the gene in such a large number through so many generations?


IMHO, its a product of environment more than anything else.
 

AlbqOwl

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I think for some, probably more for lesbians than gay men, it is a preference and such individuals can choose to be straight or gay. For this very small group, 'sexual preference' is the way to describe it. This group is most often described as 'bisexual'.

I think for most, and that means the vast majority, 'sexual preference' is a misnomer because I think these people do not choose. They simply are who they are from birth and they truly have no choice or preference in the matter even if they attempt to be what they are not.
 

Gardener

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Since other animals engage in homosexuality, I would think folks would be hard pressed to claim it a conscious choice. Well, unless one can show the level of self-awareness in other animals is such that they can make conscious choices.

Also, and speaking of just humans, now, if it were a choice, it sure isn't a self-serving one considering the level of animosity so many people show. Heck, it can get you killed in the Arab world.

My attitude is that people are probably born with inclinations towards one extreme (complete heterosexuality) or the other (complete homosexuality), and the environment determines the rest.

I think the better question should be "why does anybody care?" My attitude is that we should be concerned about actions people undertake that harm one another rather than those they undertake that don't.
 

M14 Shooter

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Gardener said:
Since other animals engage in homosexuality, I would think folks would be hard pressed to claim it a conscious choice. Well, unless one can show the level of self-awareness in other animals is such that they can make conscious choices.
Do they engage in homosexuality to the exclusion of heterosexualtiy?
That male wolves occasionaly hump another rmale wolf does not denote 'homosexulaity' in the same context as humans.
 

Saboteur

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barfolemew said:
I do not believe gays have a choice. I believe they are born gay.
Both of my brothers are gay. One says he was born gay. The other dated women in school but later decided that he was gay.

Studies on the human brain have shown that there is a difference between male and female brains. The difference is represented by things called follicals. Men have less and larger follicals, women have smaller and more follicals. Gay people have both small and large follicals of varying densities.

Though it is not a 100% conclusion as to why people are the way they are it is definitely part of the greater sum of human developement.
 

barfolemew

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One of the big reasons so many people don't believe in gay marriage is that they feel being gay is a choice. Thus the term "gay lifestyle". If being homosexual was proven to be something people were born as, perhaps more folks would be accepting of gay marriage. It took a long time for interracial marriage to become legal, and that was a matter of race. People don't "choose" their skin color. Since the gay marriage discussion went over 1,000 posts, I was curious to see what some of the posters thought about this issue.
 
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M14 Shooter said:
Do they engage in homosexuality to the exclusion of heterosexualtiy?
Acctually exclusive homosexuality has been observed in the animal kingdom amoung a variety of animals ranging from birds to banabos.


Saboteur said:
Studies on the human brain have shown that there is a difference between male and female brains. The difference is represented by things called follicals. Men have less and larger follicals, women have smaller and more follicals. Gay people have both small and large follicals of varying densities.
Very interesting. Do you have anymore information on this?
 

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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
I think it's a combination of genetics and the environment one is exposed to.
I think this is much closer to the truth..

We have but scratched the surface when it comes to understanding the human psyche - or the brain - knowing what makes a man tick...
I for one, pity the homosexual, but condemn NO....
Mans attitudes were not good, were bathed in hatred and fear just a century ago.
We have taken the first few steps, but still have a long ways to go...
 

ptsdkid

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Of course people are not born gay. That's like saying a baby is born a heroin addict. Of course, mother's that were pregnant while shooting heroin give a great chance that their offspring will continue with the habit. But that habit can be remedied through the proper medicinal treatment plan. We're talking about the genes(DNA) here. There is no scientific proof that a child will be born with a gay gene.
It's the child's enviroment that formulates his taste in sexual preference. Let's say two lezbos are raising a male child, and they dress him up in panties and skirts and give him girlie dolls to play with through his adolescent years--what becomes the chance that he'll turn out queer? Close to 100%, I'll bet.
I know there are a few cases where the effemminate boy produces a high pitched female voice and actually grows breasts, but despite these anomalies--he still relies on his enviornment to formulate and choose his switch-hitting status in the bedroom.
 

M14 Shooter

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If homosexuality is genetic, and an unborn baby is found to have the gene -- is it OK for a mother who doesnt want a gay child to abort said unborn baby?
 

Kandahar

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ptsdkid said:
Of course people are not born gay. That's like saying a baby is born a heroin addict. Of course, mother's that were pregnant while shooting heroin give a great chance that their offspring will continue with the habit. But that habit can be remedied through the proper medicinal treatment plan. We're talking about the genes(DNA) here. There is no scientific proof that a child will be born with a gay gene.
It's the child's enviroment that formulates his taste in sexual preference. Let's say two lezbos are raising a male child, and they dress him up in panties and skirts and give him girlie dolls to play with through his adolescent years--what becomes the chance that he'll turn out queer? Close to 100%, I'll bet.
I know there are a few cases where the effemminate boy produces a high pitched female voice and actually grows breasts, but despite these anomalies--he still relies on his enviornment to formulate and choose his switch-hitting status in the bedroom.
That was possibly the most unintentionally hilarious post I've read on this forum all week. Good job.
 

Saboteur

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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
Very interesting. Do you have anymore information on this?
Unfortunately I wouldn't know where to begin a search. I obtained the information on a prime time type of news program back in the '90s.

I will try though.:smile:
 

Saboteur

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M14 Shooter said:
If homosexuality is genetic, and an unborn baby is found to have the gene -- is it OK for a mother who doesnt want a gay child to abort said unborn baby?
I suppose.
 

Saboteur

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ptsdkid said:
Of course people are not born gay. That's like saying a baby is born a heroin addict. Of course, mother's that were pregnant while shooting heroin give a great chance that their offspring will continue with the habit. But that habit can be remedied through the proper medicinal treatment plan. We're talking about the genes(DNA) here. There is no scientific proof that a child will be born with a gay gene.
It's the child's enviroment that formulates his taste in sexual preference. Let's say two lezbos are raising a male child, and they dress him up in panties and skirts and give him girlie dolls to play with through his adolescent years--what becomes the chance that he'll turn out queer? Close to 100%, I'll bet.
I know there are a few cases where the effemminate boy produces a high pitched female voice and actually grows breasts, but despite these anomalies--he still relies on his enviornment to formulate and choose his switch-hitting status in the bedroom.
I think people are born gay. It is IMO a mutation that has occured in humans since we have climbed and now sit on top of the food chain with nothing to kull our herd.
 

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AlbqOwl

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A friend of mine is an out-of-the-closet lesbian who has her PhD in biology and is working on one in Psychology. She is beautiful, talented, loving, intelligent, and obviously quite well educated. Her take on this:

1) The only creature in the animal kingdom who is truly gay is the human being. She is convinced that what appears to be homosexuality in the animal kingdom elsewhere is not a homosexual predispostion but is rather assertion of dominance, much as are many of the homosexual acts expressed in prison. She believe this occurs only between males of the species and, as somebody expressed, is not to the exclusion of heterosexual activity.

2) She believes the evidence is that a few humans do actually choose the gay lifestyle for more psychological rather than biological reasons.

3) She is convinced that most gay men and lesbians are biologically predisposed to homosexuality from birth as she was.

As she explains it, homosexuality is generally not a choice, but it is a deviation from normal in that there is no gene pool for it. The odds are overwhelming that a gay father and lesbian mother will produce offspring that are heterosexual from birth while it also seems to be common that only one member, if any, of a large family will be gay. If homosexuality is a deviation from normal, however, this suggests that it may be possible to discover a way to correct it if that is what the person wants.

When she explains it, she is very convincing.
 

TimmyBoy

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AlbqOwl said:
A friend of mine is an out-of-the-closet lesbian who has her PhD in biology and is working on one in Psychology. She is beautiful, talented, loving, intelligent, and obviously quite well educated. Her take on this:

1) The only creature in the animal kingdom who is truly gay is the human being. She is convinced that what appears to be homosexuality in the animal kingdom elsewhere is not a homosexual predispostion but is rather assertion of dominance, much as are many of the homosexual acts expressed in prison. She believe this occurs only between males of the species and, as somebody expressed, is not to the exclusion of heterosexual activity.

2) She believes the evidence is that a few humans do actually choose the gay lifestyle for more psychological rather than biological reasons.

3) She is convinced that most gay men and lesbians are biologically predisposed to homosexuality from birth as she was.

As she explains it, homosexuality is generally not a choice, but it is a deviation from normal in that there is no gene pool for it. The odds are overwhelming that a gay father and lesbian mother will produce offspring that are heterosexual from birth while it also seems to be common that only one member, if any, of a large family will be gay. If homosexuality is a deviation from normal, however, this suggests that it may be possible to discover a way to correct it if that is what the person wants.

When she explains it, she is very convincing.
In prison, when their is an absence of women, men will create a class of women out of themselves. This is commonly referred to as the little bitch class. The class of the ****ed. If you are man and you get sent to prison, you want to be sure that you do not fall into the women class of men in the prison. You want to fall in the man class, the dominant class. Humans are animals which are hard wired to survive and reproduce. The stronger, smarter members have greater survival potential, are in a dominant position and those male members usually can pick choose which woman they may mate with in a normal society. In prison, with the absence of women, men will create a class off women out of themselves. Because the stronger, smarter males will want to enhance their survival potential and thus dominate other males and make them do their bidding through force or intellect or both.
 

mixedmedia

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AlbqOwl said:
A friend of mine is an out-of-the-closet lesbian who has her PhD in biology and is working on one in Psychology. She is beautiful, talented, loving, intelligent, and obviously quite well educated. Her take on this:

1) The only creature in the animal kingdom who is truly gay is the human being. She is convinced that what appears to be homosexuality in the animal kingdom elsewhere is not a homosexual predispostion but is rather assertion of dominance, much as are many of the homosexual acts expressed in prison. She believe this occurs only between males of the species and, as somebody expressed, is not to the exclusion of heterosexual activity.

2) She believes the evidence is that a few humans do actually choose the gay lifestyle for more psychological rather than biological reasons.

3) She is convinced that most gay men and lesbians are biologically predisposed to homosexuality from birth as she was.

As she explains it, homosexuality is generally not a choice, but it is a deviation from normal in that there is no gene pool for it. The odds are overwhelming that a gay father and lesbian mother will produce offspring that are heterosexual from birth while it also seems to be common that only one member, if any, of a large family will be gay. If homosexuality is a deviation from normal, however, this suggests that it may be possible to discover a way to correct it if that is what the person wants.

When she explains it, she is very convincing.
Good post, AlbqOwl, but someone mentioned bonobos earlier, and female bonobos do engage in homosexual activity. I wouldn't know about any other animal species.

And I believe homosexuality is not a choice.
 

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MY take on it is this...we have evidence but not solid proof that homosexuality can be determined by genetics. The famous twins study and the more recent and less publicized Drosophilia study are clear and definitive evidence of a causal effect between genetics and a disposition toward homosexuality.

However, I think the debate over choice versus genetics is an irrelevant debate in the grand scheme of things. The gay rights movement has put far too much stock in this idea that it can be proven that there is no choice and so, homosexuality should be a protected status. Whether homosexuality is a choice or not is irrelevant when held against the constitutional rights of personal choice and pursuit of happiness. If a person feels a disposition toward affection for the same sex, then it is not because this disposition is a protected status that he should be afforded his liberty of expression. Rather it is because he is a citizen of this nation and wishes to indulge in a victimless behavior, spurred by his/her personal choice and right to expression that he should be have his liberties guarded. A separationist attitude by virtue of a genetic anomaly is not necessary to win the debate...but rather a firm grasp on compromise, community awareness, and courage to express freedoms granted to every American.
 

jallman

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ptsdkid said:
Of course people are not born gay. That's like saying a baby is born a heroin addict. Of course, mother's that were pregnant while shooting heroin give a great chance that their offspring will continue with the habit. But that habit can be remedied through the proper medicinal treatment plan. We're talking about the genes(DNA) here. There is no scientific proof that a child will be born with a gay gene.
It's the child's enviroment that formulates his taste in sexual preference. Let's say two lezbos are raising a male child, and they dress him up in panties and skirts and give him girlie dolls to play with through his adolescent years--what becomes the chance that he'll turn out queer? Close to 100%, I'll bet.
I know there are a few cases where the effemminate boy produces a high pitched female voice and actually grows breasts, but despite these anomalies--he still relies on his enviornment to formulate and choose his switch-hitting status in the bedroom.

Wow...just...wow....I really thought people like you were a myth...but I guess not. Damn.
 

robin

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There is evidence that mothers of gay men are more fertile.
Gayness serves no purpose, but the gene for it is able to able to occur & pass on from generation to generation simply because in the numbers game it's compensated for by the associated increased fertility in mothers of gays.
Rather like other useless phenomenon incidental to reproductive biology, such as male pattern baldness or PMT.
 
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TimmyBoy

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To get an accurate reflection of society and society's behavior, all one must do is examine human behavior in a prison and you will have an accurate picture and understanding of the society you live in.
 

jallman

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TimmyBoy said:
To get an accurate reflection of society and society's behavior, all one must do is examine human behavior in a prison and you will have an accurate picture and understanding of the society you live in.
That is the biggest load of BS I have ever read. Prisons are full of creatures who, by their actions, have removed themselves from society and proven they have little or no value until their rehabilitation is complete. By placing such social predators into one contained environment, you get a whole new social order based on the barbarism that got them into prison to start with. Prisons in no way reflect society.
 
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