Anyone else believe they're going to hell?

[Alter2Ego]

No. I expect it to be open and fair in the determination.
Unlike a christian site, which none of them can ever agree, only stating what they want believers to believe.

The credibility of the bible is attacked on it's own merits. Different books of a bible for different religions. Some of them are even in christian religion.
It lacks credibility when the same religions can't get their books straight on what the want to convey.

dairyair:

So you decided to play Artful Dodger by running from my questions at Post 367. It's what I expected. You did not disappoint.

Post in thread 'Anyone else believe they're going to hell?'

Jun 9, 2025

Why did Constantine rewrite the Bible adding and removing many texts?

Why did Constantine rewrite the Bible adding and removing many texts?

One theory is that Constantine saw the creation of a standardized Bible as a way to unite his empire under a single religion.

www.bibleanalysis.org

dairyair:

Your source is wrong, and that comes as no surprise. the website bibleanalysis.org is the creation of Anurag Rao, an atheist. That's the first redflag.

Weblink to the identity of the person who created bibleanalysis.org...

• Alter2Ego

I've been a member of this website since 2014 -- Eleven years. Look at my post count: 362 as of this message. There's a reason for that. I move around to different websites when I become bored with the same characters showing up just to argue for argument's sake.

Whenever I ask people direct questions and they refuse to respond, it tells me they are not interested in being corrected and that their sole purpose in showing up on debate forums is so they can have a platform to post tripe.


Until you answer my two questions that are at Post 367, do not write to me again. Do so, and I will add you to my Ignore List where I won't have to waste my time scrolling past the nonsense you insist on posting. There are six people on my Ignore List already. I sent the last three of them there (LittleNipper, tosca1, Lightsoutlightson) just over the past month because of their Artful Dodger behavior--like you are now displaying.

At an atheist-dominated website, I put over a dozen atheists on Ignore after I provided them with scientific evidence that our fine-tuned universe could not have happened by itself and they persisted with their unreasonable arguments and or refused to answer my direct questions. At another website, several Trinitarians showed up insisting that Jesus is God in the flesh. When I quoted scripture at John 1:18 that says "No one has seen God at anytime," and quoted scripture at John 3:16 that says Jesus was "begotten" (I also provided the weblink along with the dictionary definition that says begotten refers to someone that was sired or produced by a parent) and scripture at Psalm 90:2 that says Jehovah God is eternal and therefore cannot die, I followed those scriptures with direct questions that they all refused to answer. Guess what I did to those individuals? Off to my Ignore List they went.

FYI: I very rarely remove people from Ignore once they're sent there because their behavior never changes. They are not interested in being corrected. I am simply doing what my Exemplar, Jesus Christ, instructed his followers to do.

Matthew 10:14​

"Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet."


Some people have the patience to continue trying to help hard-headed people. I do not have the time nor the inclination.




Alter2Ego

 

[joluoto]

I believe we already are in Hell.

 

[Lees]

Can't be the same. The same religion, christianity, has 2 different bibles.
Clearly things are not the same. I've said this for many many posts now.

You said the catholics decided what went into their bible, differing from the Jewish bible. You even stated that the catholic bible differs from the jewish OT bible.

I don't ignore the salvation of Saul. I flat out reject it because outside of Sauls own words, it has never been verified. He was/is a tool of Satan. To lead people down a different path than what Jesus taught. That's why there's contradictions.

What is the path to salvation? Work, faith, or grace alone?

You can tell me all day your unverified claim that all bible books were inspired. Clearly, as I've said, IMPOSSIBLE. The bible books differ between the jewish bible, the catholic bible and a protestant bible. Obviously the inspiration never happened or there are different people who determined what inspired is/was/means.

It's way over your head. You keep repeating the same things. Even though you clearly know the jewish bible is different from the catholic bible which is different from a protestant bible. All those things being different can't be the same inspired bibles.

I can't be lying either. You agree the bibles are different. If I'm lying and you agree with me, then you'd have to be the ignorant one.
I see the more you interact the more anger you show. Are you a fake christian? Are you lying?

Rome's Bible is different because she wrongfully added the apocryphal books to the Old Testament Bible in the 16th century. But the Jews are who established the Old Testament, not the Church. And the Jews rejected the apocryphal writings.

Again, why do you believe in Pauls persecution of the Church and not his conversion? It is simple....you don't believe the Bible. You just believe what you want.

Why do you ask how to be saved when you don't believe the Bible.

No, the Bible exists. It is composed of 66 inspired books. 39 in the Old and 27 in the New. The Old Testament of the Jews is the same as in the Protestant Bible. The Jews reject the New Testament because they reject Jesus Christ. Rome added the apocryphal books to the Old Testament though they were rejected by the Jews.

I don't agree with you. I don't mind getting angry. Does that bother you? You don't know what a Christian is. You don't know how to be saved. And you certainly don't know anything about the Canon of Scripture.

Lees

 

[dairyair]

dairyair:

So you decided to play Artful Dodger by running from my questions at Post 367. It's what I expected. You did not disappoint.

Post in thread 'Anyone else believe they're going to hell?'

Jun 9, 2025

Why did Constantine rewrite the Bible adding and removing many texts?

Why did Constantine rewrite the Bible adding and removing many texts?

One theory is that Constantine saw the creation of a standardized Bible as a way to unite his empire under a single religion.

www.bibleanalysis.org

dairyair:

Your source is wrong, and that comes as no surprise. the website bibleanalysis.org is the creation of Anurag Rao, an atheist. That's the first redflag.

Weblink to the identity of the person who created bibleanalysis.org...

• Alter2Ego

I've been a member of this website since 2014 -- Eleven years. Look at my post count: 362 as of this message. There's a reason for that. I move around to different websites when I become bored with the same characters showing up just to argue for argument's sake.

Whenever I ask people direct questions and they refuse to respond, it tells me they are not interested in being corrected and that their sole purpose in showing up on debate forums is so they can have a platform to post tripe.


Until you answer my two questions that are at Post 367, do not write to me again. Do so, and I will add you to my Ignore List where I won't have to waste my time scrolling past the nonsense you insist on posting. There are six people on my Ignore List already. I sent the last three of them there (LittleNipper, tosca1, Lightsoutlightson) just over the past month because of their Artful Dodger behavior--like you are now displaying.

At an atheist-dominated website, I put over a dozen atheists on Ignore after I provided them with scientific evidence that our fine-tuned universe could not have happened by itself and they persisted with their unreasonable arguments and or refused to answer my direct questions. At another website, several Trinitarians showed up insisting that Jesus is God in the flesh. When I quoted scripture at John 1:18 that says "No one has seen God at anytime," and quoted scripture at John 3:16 that says Jesus was "begotten" (I also provided the weblink along with the dictionary definition that says begotten refers to someone that was sired or produced by a parent) and scripture at Psalm 90:2 that says Jehovah God is eternal and therefore cannot die, I followed those scriptures with direct questions that they all refused to answer. Guess what I did to those individuals? Off to my Ignore List they went.

FYI: I very rarely remove people from Ignore once they're sent there because their behavior never changes. They are not interested in being corrected. I am simply doing what my Exemplar, Jesus Christ, instructed his followers to do.

Matthew 10:14​

"Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet."


Some people have the patience to continue trying to help hard-headed people. I do not have the time nor the inclination.




Alter2Ego

LOL. I answered your questions.
How can you not read that?
Your bible(s) are inconsistent. They fail on their own merits.

You become bored because you fail to understand responses to you. I clearly explained why I disagreed with you. But you flat out missed it.
If you don't like the answers, you seem to just ignore any response. That's your problem. No one elses. And you will continue to bounce around from site to site because you can't deal with people who aren't blind followers.

QUESTION #1 TO dairyair: Do you expect an atheist to do anything besides attempting to tear down belief in the Abrahamic God, Jehovah? YES or NO.

I expect them to be better than christian religions in addressing the abarahamic god. Even christians disagree with the chosen people of god on how to live.

QUESTION #2 TO dairyair: Do you expect an atheist to do anything besides attack the creditility of the Judeo-Christian Bible? YES or NO
The bible fails on its own merits. Why must I repeat this 2 you? Read the posts, responses, the 1st time.

Each religions has their own bibles/books. That alone shows they fail.

 

[dairyair]

Rome's Bible is different because she wrongfully added the apocryphal books to the Old Testament Bible in the 16th century. But the Jews are who established the Old Testament, not the Church. And the Jews rejected the apocryphal writings.

Again, why do you believe in Pauls persecution of the Church and not his conversion? It is simple....you don't believe the Bible. You just believe what you want.

Why do you ask how to be saved when you don't believe the Bible.

No, the Bible exists. It is composed of 66 inspired books. 39 in the Old and 27 in the New. The Old Testament of the Jews is the same as in the Protestant Bible. The Jews reject the New Testament because they reject Jesus Christ. Rome added the apocryphal books to the Old Testament though they were rejected by the Jews.

I don't agree with you. I don't mind getting angry. Does that bother you? You don't know what a Christian is. You don't know how to be saved. And you certainly don't know anything about the Canon of Scripture.

Lees

You can't tell me the bible, books and writers are divinely inspired the but the main christian religion is wrong.

I know they are wrong. But so are others who made decision. THAT'S BEEN MY POINT.

You claim it's all been divine. But clearly there are differences, which blows that divine inspiration out of the water.
It's impossible for over 2000 yrs of writers to all been divinely inspired. and the several different councils of men picking and choosing what to include or not include and tell me they are all divinely inspired in one sentence and then tell the church got it wrong.

You are picking and choosing based on your own personal preference what you think is inspired.

I ask about salvation, because it proves Sauls position on salvation is different from Jesus. I noticed you decided to dodge the answer.
You believe the bible but can't come up with a straight answer. Maybe you don't believe the bible. At least all of the bible. Just the parts you like.

I have told you many many times about Saul. What is it you can't read?
Everyone knows based on writings of others that Saul was a persecutor of christians.
No one knows if he had some revelation on the road to damascus. No other person has corroborated that story. NONE.
It's simple, Saul is lying. You are correct, I don't believe liars. Why do you?

I was born, baptised, confirmed, and married into the LCMS religion. Don't lie about me or others you've never met. It makes any posts weak and pointless.
I know what a christian is. And people like you wreck the good parts of the religion.
All self righteous judgemental. Making your own personal beliefs fit the religion of choice. Attacking all others because they differ from yours.

Knowing the bibles are different. But still try to claim each and every author and book are inspired.

 

[Lees]

You can't tell me the bible, books and writers are divinely inspired the but the main christian religion is wrong.

I know they are wrong. But so are others who made decision. THAT'S BEEN MY POINT.

You claim it's all been divine. But clearly there are differences, which blows that divine inspiration out of the water.
It's impossible for over 2000 yrs of writers to all been divinely inspired. and the several different councils of men picking and choosing what to include or not include and tell me they are all divinely inspired in one sentence and then tell the church got it wrong.

You are picking and choosing based on your own personal preference what you think is inspired.

I ask about salvation, because it proves Sauls position on salvation is different from Jesus. I noticed you decided to dodge the answer.
You believe the bible but can't come up with a straight answer. Maybe you don't believe the bible. At least all of the bible. Just the parts you like.

I have told you many many times about Saul. What is it you can't read?
Everyone knows based on writings of others that Saul was a persecutor of christians.
No one knows if he had some revelation on the road to damascus. No other person has corroborated that story. NONE.
It's simple, Saul is lying. You are correct, I don't believe liars. Why do you?

I was born, baptised, confirmed, and married into the LCMS religion. Don't lie about me or others you've never met. It makes any posts weak and pointless.
I know what a christian is. And people like you wreck the good parts of the religion.
All self righteous judgemental. Making your own personal beliefs fit the religion of choice. Attacking all others because they differ from yours.

Knowing the bibles are different. But still try to claim each and every author and book are inspired.

The inspired Books of the Bible are inspired no matter what wrong is done by any Church. The inspired writings are found in the Roman Bible, but she has wrongfully labeled others as inspired that are not. Which certainly creates a lot of confusion. But it doesn't take away from the Books that are inspired. No one can do that.

The inspiration of Scripture is Divine, from God. No, the fact that false books have entered in doesn't make the inspired Books 'not inspired'. Well, 'impossible' is one of the benefits of being God.

Yes, my and many others personal preference.

I didn't dodge the question. I asked why do you ask me about salvation when you don't believe the Bible? So why? How does Paul's salvation differ from Jesus? No, no...I believe all the Bible. I don't believe what you say about the Bible.

Who corroborates Paul's persecution of the Church? If you don't want to believe the Bible, you don't have to. If you don't believe it, why worry about it?

Yeah, well, I don't put much stock in what people tell me about themselves on a forum. You say you know what a Christian is, tell me then what a Christian is. You who don't believe the Bible.

Am I attacking...maybe. Attacking your errors concerning the Bible.

Lees

 

[dairyair]

The inspired Books of the Bible are inspired no matter what wrong is done by any Church. The inspired writings are found in the Roman Bible, but she has wrongfully labeled others as inspired that are not. Which certainly creates a lot of confusion. But it doesn't take away from the Books that are inspired. No one can do that.

The inspiration of Scripture is Divine, from God. No, the fact that false books have entered in doesn't make the inspired Books 'not inspired'. Well, 'impossible' is one of the benefits of being God.

Yes, my and many others personal preference.

I didn't dodge the question. I asked why do you ask me about salvation when you don't believe the Bible? So why? How does Paul's salvation differ from Jesus? No, no...I believe all the Bible. I don't believe what you say about the Bible.

Who corroborates Paul's persecution of the Church? If you don't want to believe the Bible, you don't have to. If you don't believe it, why worry about it?

Yeah, well, I don't put much stock in what people tell me about themselves on a forum. You say you know what a Christian is, tell me then what a Christian is. You who don't believe the Bible.

Am I attacking...maybe. Attacking your errors concerning the Bible.

Lees

So you contention is the main christian church isn't divine. Since you somehow claim they are wrong.
How do you know the church labeled any writings wrong? Are you god? Or have a special insight into what god thinks and inspires. I suspect you're really making it all up.

And many others not personal preference. Seems to not mean very much. But for you and your others.

Because you believe the bible.
I asked you the path to salvation, based on the inspired books of the bible. Faith, works, or grace alone. There's those 3 ways at least in the bible. And Jesus made a statement about that path. Saul did also.
And you didn't bother to answer yet again. Are you afraid or something?

I am not worried about Saul, just making an observation about what he is known to have done. And that's all that's really documented that is verified by other sources but himself.

The errors are yours. I presented facts that have been accurate. Your claim is the original church made a mistake. But you've not shown how or why that is true.
So rather than address that error, you did the attacking.

 

[Lees]

So you contention is the main christian church isn't divine. Since you somehow claim they are wrong.
How do you know the church labeled any writings wrong? Are you god? Or have a special insight into what god thinks and inspires. I suspect you're really making it all up.

And many others not personal preference. Seems to not mean very much. But for you and your others.

Because you believe the bible.
I asked you the path to salvation, based on the inspired books of the bible. Faith, works, or grace alone. There's those 3 ways at least in the bible. And Jesus made a statement about that path. Saul did also.
And you didn't bother to answer yet again. Are you afraid or something?

I am not worried about Saul, just making an observation about what he is known to have done. And that's all that's really documented that is verified by other sources but himself.

The errors are yours. I presented facts that have been accurate. Your claim is the original church made a mistake. But you've not shown how or why that is true.
So rather than address that error, you did the attacking.

No, I didn't say that. The Roman Church is wrong in stating that the Apocrypha are Scripture. Because at the Council of Trent is when they brought in the Apocrypha as Scripture. And the Church had no authority to determine the books of the Old Testament. That was already decided by the Jews. How many times do I need to say it?

No. I said, 'My, and many other personal preference' As a believer in Christ it satisfies me...and many others.

Yes, but you don't believe the Bible. So why ask me about the way of salvation? I asked you, How does Paul's salvation differ from Jesus? Why don't you answer?

No, no. You have made a statement that Paul's conversion cannot be corroborated by any other source. Yet you believe in Paul's persecution of the Church. So, where is that corroborated outside of Scripture? Now you're crawfishing. In other words you just believe what you want. You don't believe the Bible.

You said you know what a Christian is, so I asked what is a Christian. But you don't answer. Typical.

Lees

 

[dairyair]

No, I didn't say that. The Roman Church is wrong in stating that the Apocrypha are Scripture. Because at the Council of Trent is when they brought in the Apocrypha as Scripture. And the Church had no authority to determine the books of the Old Testament. That was already decided by the Jews. How many times do I need to say it?

No. I said, 'My, and many other personal preference' As a believer in Christ it satisfies me...and many others.

Yes, but you don't believe the Bible. So why ask me about the way of salvation? I asked you, How does Paul's salvation differ from Jesus? Why don't you answer?

No, no. You have made a statement that Paul's conversion cannot be corroborated by any other source. Yet you believe in Paul's persecution of the Church. So, where is that corroborated outside of Scripture? Now you're crawfishing. In other words you just believe what you want. You don't believe the Bible.

You said you know what a Christian is, so I asked what is a Christian. But you don't answer. Typical.

Lees

why are they wrong? Who says they can't state what is in the OT?
Didn't god inspire those people also?

Granted the jews are the chosen people of abraham's god. But inspired is inspired. It went of for 1000s of years. Who's to say those at the council of trent weren't inspired with newer information?

You want me to answer you, but you refuse to answer my question?
You won't answer it because all 3 ways are described and believed. Jesus has a statement and Saul has a statement. And they differ.
You seem to not know that and that is why you can't provide an answer. Or maybe, you don't know a path to salvation?

So, saul is not to be trusted at all the. Can't believe he persecuted christians and can't believe he ever converted by Jesus. It's all made up.
So, you believe make believe then.

Typical is you dodging my question about salvation.
And you want me to answer your question? I did. I was born, baptized, confirmed, married, as LCMS. That is a pretty hard core conservative religion.

Either you can't read of pretend to not read.

 

[Lees]

why are they wrong? Who says they can't state what is in the OT?
Didn't god inspire those people also?

Granted the jews are the chosen people of abraham's god. But inspired is inspired. It went of for 1000s of years. Who's to say those at the council of trent weren't inspired with newer information?

You want me to answer you, but you refuse to answer my question?
You won't answer it because all 3 ways are described and believed. Jesus has a statement and Saul has a statement. And they differ.
You seem to not know that and that is why you can't provide an answer. Or maybe, you don't know a path to salvation?

So, saul is not to be trusted at all the. Can't believe he persecuted christians and can't believe he ever converted by Jesus. It's all made up.
So, you believe make believe then.

Typical is you dodging my question about salvation.
And you want me to answer your question? I did. I was born, baptized, confirmed, married, as LCMS. That is a pretty hard core conservative religion.

Either you can't read of pretend to not read.

The purpose of the Council of Trent was to reinforce Roman doctrine to combat the Protestan Reformation. Thus the adding of Apocrypha was for that reason. The inspiration aspect really didn't matter.

I already told you. The Jews were those responsible for the Canon of the Old Testament. Not the Church.

I did answer you question. Why ask me about the way of salvation when you don't believe the Bible. You wouldn't believe what I said anyway.

How do Jesus, and Pauls ways differ?

As far as your concerned Paul cannot be trusted. As far as I am concerned I believe all the Bible, Paul included. If you don't believe it, that's fine. You don't have to.

More oxymoron. You tell me you don't believe the Bible, then tell me you are a definition of a Christian. You lie to yourself, not me.

Lees

 

[dairyair]

The purpose of the Council of Trent was to reinforce Roman doctrine to combat the Protestan Reformation. Thus the adding of Apocrypha was for that reason. The inspiration aspect really didn't matter.

I already told you. The Jews were those responsible for the Canon of the Old Testament. Not the Church.

I did answer you question. Why ask me about the way of salvation when you don't believe the Bible. You wouldn't believe what I said anyway.

How do Jesus, and Pauls ways differ?

As far as your concerned Paul cannot be trusted. As far as I am concerned I believe all the Bible, Paul included. If you don't believe it, that's fine. You don't have to.

More oxymoron. You tell me you don't believe the Bible, then tell me you are a definition of a Christian. You lie to yourself, not me.

Lees

Originally, yes on the jews. But god changed and brought jesus into the picture. A new authority was born. And the church was the 1st born after jesus.

Answering a question with another question isn't an answer. It's dodging it. You are doing that very well.
Bottom line, you really don't know an answer.

You are not up on sciptures? What does Jesus say the path to salvation is?
What is Saul's message on the path to salvation?

Those words are in the bible. A chrisitan who read the bible should know those verses.

I even supplied clues for you, faith, works, or grace alone?

 

[Daisy]

Hebrew Scriptures. The Jewish historian Josephus, in answering opponents in his work Against Apion (I, 38-40 [8]) around the year 100 C.E., confirms that by then the canon of the Hebrew Scriptures had been fixed for a long time. He wrote: “We do not possess myriads of inconsistent books, conflicting with each other. Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty, and contain the record of all time. Of these, five are the books of Moses, comprising the laws and the traditional history from the birth of man down to the death of the lawgiver. . . . From the death of Moses until Artaxerxes, who succeeded Xerxes as king of Persia, the prophets subsequent to Moses wrote the history of the events of their own times in thirteen books. The remaining four books contain hymns to God and precepts for the conduct of human life.”

Canonicity of a book therefore does not rest in whole or in part on whether some council, committee, or community accepts or rejects it. The voice of such noninspired men is valuable only as witness to what God himself has already done through his accredited representatives.

The most conclusive testimony on the canonicity of the Hebrew Scriptures is the unimpeachable word of Jesus Christ and the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures. Though they nowhere give an exact number of books, the unmistakable conclusion drawn from what they said is that the canon of the Hebrew Scriptures did not contain the Apocryphal books.

If there was not a definite collection of Holy Writings known and recognized by them and those to whom they spoke and wrote, they would not have used such expressions as “the Scriptures” (Mt 22:29; Ac 18:24); “the holy Scriptures” (Ro 1:2); “the holy writings” (2Ti 3:15); the “Law,” often meaning the whole body of Scripture (Joh 10:34; 12:34; 15:25); “the Law and the Prophets,” used as a generic term meaning the entire Hebrew Scriptures and not simply the first and second sections of those Scriptures (Mt 5:17; 7:12; 22:40; Lu 16:16). When Paul referred to “the Law,” he quoted from Isaiah.—1Co 14:21; Isa 28:11.

Christian Greek Scriptures. The writing as well as the collecting of the 27 books comprising the canon of the Christian Greek Scriptures was similar to that of the Hebrew Scriptures. Christ “gave gifts in men,” yes, “he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers.” (Eph 4:8, 11-13) With God’s holy spirit on them they set forth sound doctrine for the Christian congregation and, “by way of a reminder,” repeated many things already written in the Scriptures.—2Pe 1:12, 13; 3:1; Ro 15:15.

Outside the Scriptures themselves there is evidence that, as early as 90-100 C.E., at least ten of Paul’s letters were collected together. It is certain that at an early date Christians were gathering together the inspired Christian writings.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000880

 

[Lees]

Originally, yes on the jews. But god changed and brought jesus into the picture. A new authority was born. And the church was the 1st born after jesus.

Answering a question with another question isn't an answer. It's dodging it. You are doing that very well.
Bottom line, you really don't know an answer.

You are not up on sciptures? What does Jesus say the path to salvation is?
What is Saul's message on the path to salvation?

Those words are in the bible. A chrisitan who read the bible should know those verses.

I even supplied clues for you, faith, works, or grace alone?

God didn't change. What gives you that ideal? How was Jesus a 'new authority'? How do you know the Church was the 1st born. Chapter and verse in the Bible, which you don't belive.

I didn't dodge your question. Your question is meaningless because you don't believe the Bible, and my answer would come from the Bible. To answer your question is useless.

You made the claim about Jesus and Paul's way of salvation. Why do you want me to have to tell you. You're scared. You know you don't know what you're talking about and you want me to answer for you. Like all the other statements you make concerning the Bible, you don't know. But, surprise me and tell me the difference in Pauls and Jesus salvation.

You provided nothing. Your so-called clues are all you know about the Bible, probably through some internet search. Which is why you can't answer the questions.

If you cannot support what you say with Scripture, then you just move on. Your ignorance of God and Christ and Scripture are noted.

Lees

 

[Fearandloathing]

I believe we already are in Hell.

Only if you let religious fanatics get to you.

I think a cool law would be you can't advertise anything that you can't absolutely prove exists.

Good bye all this horseshit

 

[Revelation]

Only if you let religious fanatics get to you.

actually it is God that gets to people.

I think a cool law would be you can't advertise anything that you can't absolutely prove exists.

you already know he does, that is why you fight God so hard.

why? cause you wanna be god.

however there is only room for one God of the universe and we aint got that job.

Good bye all this horseshit

until the end; then the Rude awakening persists


oooooooooooops.

.

 

[dairyair]

God didn't change. What gives you that ideal? How was Jesus a 'new authority'? How do you know the Church was the 1st born. Chapter and verse in the Bible, which you don't belive.

I didn't dodge your question. Your question is meaningless because you don't believe the Bible, and my answer would come from the Bible. To answer your question is useless.

You made the claim about Jesus and Paul's way of salvation. Why do you want me to have to tell you. You're scared. You know you don't know what you're talking about and you want me to answer for you. Like all the other statements you make concerning the Bible, you don't know. But, surprise me and tell me the difference in Pauls and Jesus salvation.

You provided nothing. Your so-called clues are all you know about the Bible, probably through some internet search. Which is why you can't answer the questions.

If you cannot support what you say with Scripture, then you just move on. Your ignorance of God and Christ and Scripture are noted.

Lees

He had to send a so called Savior for the mistake of A & E.
It took it about 5000 yrs to do such a thing.
Oh, and then there's the rainbow thing to show a NEW convenant was made with earth creatures. That's a change.

It's not meaningless.
But you are not able to answer the path to salvation. Faith, works, or grace alone.
Maybe there's no salvation for some believers that don't know the path.

A chrstian is people who believe there's a jesus that died and went to hell and raised again.
There's millions that believe that. Thousands of different religions that believe some form of that.
And all have a different idea on what to believe.

It's been you showing ignorance of god, christ, and scripture. That is plainly obvious. You just have your personal opinions. As all do.

 

[Lees]

He had to send a so called Savior for the mistake of A & E.
It took it about 5000 yrs to do such a thing.
Oh, and then there's the rainbow thing to show a NEW convenant was made with earth creatures. That's a change.

It's not meaningless.
But you are not able to answer the path to salvation. Faith, works, or grace alone.
Maybe there's no salvation for some believers that don't know the path.

A chrstian is people who believe there's a jesus that died and went to hell and raised again.
There's millions that believe that. Thousands of different religions that believe some form of that.
And all have a different idea on what to believe.

It's been you showing ignorance of god, christ, and scripture. That is plainly obvious. You just have your personal opinions. As all do.

There was no mistake with Adam and Eve. Where did you get that from?

The New Covenant was part of Gods plan just like the Old and other Covenants were. And Jesus Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev. 13:8) No surprise to God.

Of course it's meaningless. You ask a question where the answer I give is from the Bible. But you don't believe the Bible. So the answer is meaningless.

Are you saying a Christian is one who believes in Christ as Lord and Saviour and the Son of God? Who else believes that other than Christians?

Your opinion is worthless to the Christian if you cannot support it with Scripture. Which means it is worthless.

Lees

 

[dairyair]

There was no mistake with Adam and Eve. Where did you get that from?

The New Covenant was part of Gods plan just like the Old and other Covenants were. And Jesus Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev. 13:8) No surprise to God.

Of course it's meaningless. You ask a question where the answer I give is from the Bible. But you don't believe the Bible. So the answer is meaningless.

Are you saying a Christian is one who believes in Christ as Lord and Saviour and the Son of God? Who else believes that other than Christians?

Your opinion is worthless to the Christian if you cannot support it with Scripture. Which means it is worthless.

Lees

You never gave an answer. From the bible or elsewhere.

[ Suspicious Content] Jesus


Paul

The one who repents from sin is "justified." (Parable of the Publican and the Pharisee. Luke 18:10-14.) The son who was dead but now repents is "alive again" (born again). (Parable of the Prodigal Son, Luke 15:1-32, viz. v. 24.)


One is not justified nor born again by repentance from sin, but by faith alone. (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 4:4. See also Romans 3:28 especially as Luther defends here.) Any such addition to Paul's salvation by faith alone doctrine is the heresy of "works salvation." (Wilkin, Stanley, Hodge.)

The one who relies upon God's election to salvation and does not repent goes home unjustified. (Parable of the Publican and the Pharisee. Luke 18:10-14.)



The one who relies upon God's election alone for salvation is relying on the right thing. (Rom. 8:33.) God elects you to salvation by means of predestination, and hence without any work on your part. Faith is given to you as part of God's work in you. (Phil 1:6) (Wilkin, Stanley.)

To have eternal life, follow the Ten Commandments, deny yourself (i.e., repent and do works worthy of repentance) and then follow Jesus. If you give up fathers, mothers, and brothers for Jesus, deny yourself, take up your cross, and "follow Me," you "shall have eternal life." (Matthew 19:27-29; Matthew 10:37-39; John 12:25-26.)


To have eternal life, say with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe He is resurrected. (Rom. 10:9.) Do not add any work. "Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt."(Rom. 4:4.) If salvation depends on keeping the Law, then salvation by faith is made void. "f they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void..." (Rom.4:14.) In Romans 3:20, Paul says: “For no one is put right in God’s sight by doing what the Law requires; what the Law does is to make man know he sinned.”

Paul's Contradictions of Jesus | JWO

Paul's Contradictions of Jesus | JWO

jesuswordsonly.org

 

[Lees]

@dairyair concerning post #(393)

I did give an answer. My answer was, why do you ask me a question where the answer comes from the Bible, and you don't believe the Bible?

Not sure what you're trying to prove in (Luke 18:10-14) The publican recognized he was a sinner and sought mercy from God. The Pharisee trusted his good works and thought that should be accepted by God. This is Jesus speaking. I don't see any distinction in what Paul and Jesus was speaking. Repentance is always involved in ones salvation. But it is not a work. It is an action that takes when one believes. (1 Thess. 1:9) "...and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God." That turning is the moment of faith.

Note it does not say 'how ye turned from idols to God'. That would be a work. Instead it is 'how ye turned to God from idols'. Repentance was in that turning in faith to God. But it was initiated first by faith.

Concerning the Prodigal Son in (Luke 15:11-32): 'When he came to himself', (Luke 15:17), is the moment of faith on his part and he returned. Just like with (1 Thess. 1:9) 'how ye turned to God from idols'. Though the son wanted to do something the father wouldn't hear of it. (Luke 15:20-22) The father immediately clothed him in clothing fit for his son. And note also, though the son was lost, he was always his son.

The one coming to God in faith doesn't know anything about any election to rely on. He just knows he is coming to God. Election is true, but the one coming to God must exercise that faith.

I think you left out (Matt. 19:16). And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" And Christ told him to follow the law. Nothing wrong with the law. The problem is no one can keep it. And that is why the law was given to show that no one can keep it. Which forces one to desire mercy from God and the salvation He provides.

Concerning (Matt. 19:27-29): This speaks to the 'Kingdom of Heaven' which is not heaven. (Matt. 19:23) It is God's rule on earth by His Man, Jesus Christ. It is that 1000 year reign by Christ when He returns. And Christ promises His discples they will be rewarded for following Him and be given 12 thrones and rule over the house of Israel. (Matt. 19:27-29). As well as others who followed Christ, they too will be rewarded and will inherit eternal life. None of this takes away from salvation by faith alone. (Matt. 10:37-39) speak of the cost of discipleship. And when conflict comes, by even those from ones own household, be faithful to Christ.

Concerning (John 12:25-26): I don't see how that adds to your argument. It's talking about life in this world only.

(Rom. 10:9-10) is clear that belief first comes from the heart. That is ones initial salvation. Confession by the mouth comes after that. And (Rom. 4:3-4) is clear that initial salvation is by faith, not by works. I see no conflict with Jesus and Paul.

Lees

 

[Metanoia]

For me the most relevant thing about salvation is realize that you are saved. It was a onetime crucifixion for all. With that realization genuine change in life begins.

 

[bythoughts]

For me the most relevant thing about salvation is realize that you are saved. It was a onetime crucifixion for all. With that realization genuine change in life begins.

Could you explain more about what you mean by a "genuine change in life"?

 

[Metanoia]

Could you explain more about what you mean by a "genuine change in life"?

I am suggesting repentance can follow realization….