Any dictators in Europe and Americas in the 1990's?

[political_debater]

Were there any dictators or authoritarian governments in Europe and the Americas after the Cold-War in the 1990's and 2000's?

Here's a list of some I know so far.

Europe
Lukashenko - Belarus - still in power
Milosevic - Serbia - Described as being the Hitler of the 90's due to his genocide policies.
Tudjman - Croatia

The Americas
Fujimori - Peru
Chavez - Venezuela - either a dictator or increasingly becoming one.
Cédras - Haiti
Both Castro brothers - Cuba
Don't even mention Bush.

But was wondering if there were more.

I know Africa and Asia are full of them but there not westernized continents.

 

[Arch Enemy]

Are we talking about certified totalitarians? Or just dictators in general?

If it's the latter, then you can add George Bush Jr. and Barack Obama to that list.

 

[political_debater]

Are we talking about certified totalitarians? Or just dictators in general?

If it's the latter, then you can add George Bush Jr. and Barack Obama to that list.

George Bush wasn't even close.

And Obama has dictatorial charisma, but not even he is.

 

[B L Zeebub]

the Pope......

 

[Agnapostate]

Chavez - Venezuela - either a dictator or increasingly becoming one.

Elaborate. The term usually doesn't include those democratically elected numerous times that continue to enjoy widespread popular support and mandate. :shrug:

 

[Kandahar]

Were there any dictators or authoritarian governments in Europe and the Americas after the Cold-War in the 1990's and 2000's?

Here's a list of some I know so far.

Europe
Lukashenko - Belarus - still in power
Milosevic - Serbia - Described as being the Hitler of the 90's due to his genocide policies.
Tudjman - Croatia

The Americas
Fujimori - Peru
Chavez - Venezuela - either a dictator or increasingly becoming one.
Cédras - Haiti
Both Castro brothers - Cuba
Don't even mention Bush.

But was wondering if there were more.

I know Africa and Asia are full of them but there not westernized continents.

I think you identified most of the main ones. You got all of the hardcore totalitarian dictators that I can think of...but if we're going to include wannabe-sort-of-dictators like Chavez, I think we would also need to include Kuchma (Ukraine), Putin (Russia), Micheletti (Honduras), and possibly Ortega (Nicaragua).

 

[Agnapostate]

If we're just including people with any degree of autocratic tendency, every head of state in the world could qualify. How could one opt to be a head of state if not for an arrogance in his or her own abilities and belief in some degree of superiority over others that can manifest itself into governance approaches?

 

[Arch Enemy]

George Bush wasn't even close.

And Obama has dictatorial charisma, but not even he is.

Joking right?

I consider manipulating information in order to sway public opinion to support a war (to "make" a case) to be the act of a dictator.

The President of the United States holds powers that lie in direct contradiction with any sentiment of JJR's Separation of Powers; Midnight Regulations, Write-Ins, etc. There are also tiers of Washington norms that cultivate an authoritative power in the White House; limited accountability, cult of personality, etc.

It's ridiculous to argue otherwise. It's an amazingly benevolent dictatorship, but until the powers are limited and until we see more accountability, then it's a Dictatorship that only gets checked by the people-- But thanks to an absurd amount of legal wiggle-room, in regards to causation for arrest, you can disappear over-night while D.C. connects to the unfortunate motif of danger to "National Security".

 

[Kandahar]

Joking right?

I consider manipulating information in order to sway public opinion to support a war (to "make" a case) to be the act of a dictator.

The President of the United States holds powers that lie in direct contradiction with any sentiment of JJR's Separation of Powers; Midnight Regulations, Write-Ins, etc. There are also tiers of Washington norms that cultivate an authoritative power in the White House; limited accountability, cult of personality, etc.

It's ridiculous to argue otherwise. It's an amazingly benevolent dictatorship, but until the powers are limited and until we see more accountability, then it's a Dictatorship that only gets checked by the people-- But thanks to an absurd amount of legal wiggle-room, in regards to causation for arrest, you can disappear over-night while D.C. connects to the unfortunate motif of danger to "National Security".

Try living in a REAL dictatorship for a while, then see if you still believe there is any comparison.

 

[Arch Enemy]

Try living in a REAL dictatorship for a while, then see if you still believe there is any comparison.

That's why I was wanting clarification between a dictatorship and a totalitarian.

A good question to ask yourself is when are we to know if our country changes from one type of authority to another?

Dictator just means that the power is invested in one facet of the government.

 

[Kandahar]

That's why I was wanting clarification between a dictatorship and a totalitarian.

A good question to ask yourself is when are we to know if our country changes from one type of authority to another?

There's no clear line, but the United States is nowhere close to it.

Dictator just means that the power is invested in one facet of the government.

Our government operates pretty much the same way it has operated for (at least) decades.

 

[Arch Enemy]

There's no clear line, but the United States is nowhere close to it.

You cannot be certain. A dictatorship has happened in our past before (F.D.R) it's not a judgement on the morality or fairness of the regime, but an analyzation of whom holds the power.

Our government operates pretty much the same way it has operated for (at least) decades.

No. Situations change so the government has to change accordingly. The ability of the individual increased since the beginning of our government (now a small group, or even a solo job, can do what would've taken a legion before). America today is fast pace... it takes a different kind of animal to provide security for the populace.

 

[JW Frogen]

Elaborate. The term usually doesn't include those democratically elected numerous times that continue to enjoy widespread popular support and mandate. :shrug:

Chavez is no dictator, he is elected, but he has tried to change the democratic rules so he can stay and enhance his power, he has attempted to shut down free speech when it is critical of him and that is the first sign of a man ready to cross the Rubicon.

If he keeps it up there may be blood on the Senate floor.

I know cleaners who can get that up.

 

[B L Zeebub]

I live with a dictator

 

[JW Frogen]

I live with a dictator

Marriage, where our dicks are tated to until death do us part.

 

[B L Zeebub]

Marriage, where our dicks are tated to until death do us part.

my taters were mashed by a champ?

 

[Agnapostate]

Chavez is no dictator, he is elected, but he has tried to change the democratic rules so he can stay and enhance his power, he has attempted to shut down free speech when it is critical of him and that is the first sign of a man ready to cross the Rubicon.

If he keeps it up there may be blood on the Senate floor.

I know cleaners who can get that up.

Now, now, why do you insist on entering into contentions that you never have the slightest chance of winning (i.e. arguments with me)?

Hugo Chavez successfully championed an elimination of presidential term limits (via popular referendum). It's somewhat difficult to claim that this represents a violation of democratic principles, of course, since term limits restrict an electorate from voting for a candidate regardless of their preference for him or her, which seems a greater transgression on democratic principles than its elimination ever could be. He also survived a recall attempt, a democratic mechanism not even in place as a check against U.S. heads of state.

You'll have to excuse me for being dubious of the assertion that he "has attempted to shut down free speech when it is critical of him," of course. This is usually a reference to the relevant governmental agency's refusal to renew the licenses of media broadcasters that committed numerous violations of their contracts by openly aiding and abetting the brief 2002 coup d'etat that resulted in Chavez's kidnapping and possibly his near-execution. This is an action that likely would have earned those broadcasters prison time in the U.S., but in Venezuela, merely earned them a lack of license renewal years after the fact in a process that began in 2007 with RCTV and continues to this day to some extent...seven years after the fact. Moreover, RCTV continues to function as a cable broadcaster. The premise that the Chavez administration moves to shut down media broadcasters critical of their policies is absurd on its face to anyone familiar with the particularly vitriolic criticism the Venezuelan media elite has directed towards them without punishment.

 

[JW Frogen]

Oh, I see, so Chaves runs under one set of rules and does not say I want to change these rules for the next guy, but I want MY term limit suspended.

Ok, nice, never seen that before in history. He is a real George Washington.

Oh, I see, so Chaves seeks to suspend not only any media outlet sympathetic to his removal at one time(free speech is free speech) but then when it is clear he will not be removed keeps seeking on suspending on, for any reason critical to, well Chavez.

And so the demagogue goes.....

Like I have never seen this before in history.

 

[Agnapostate]

"Free speech is free speech"? :rofl

By all means, comrade, host the leaders of a briefly successful coup against an elected government on your television show during the course of the illegal action in the good ole' U S of A and see how long you stay out of Sing Sing. If you're not going to research accurate information about him, please do at least learn to spell his name correctly.

 

[JW Frogen]

Indeed Aggie, I actually believe in free speech, you can say “I want to kill JW Frogen”, all you want. Again and again.

No problem, I get those e-mails all the time, I even respond to a few.

If you plan it, then you have a problem. (And you will loose the fight.)

I see you ignored the fact Chaves has moved from that to attempting censor speech critical writ large (a Latin American specialty, in all parties, it must be said) and his wanting to remove term limits because he is coming to the limit of his term.

Imagine that?

As to the spelling of his name, if a demagogue plays loose with the dignity of the meaning of language in relation to how humans are treated, then so will I writing about him.

He is not worth the spell check.

Staulen can go **** himself too.

 

[Agnapostate]

Nope, just a matter of you not providing actual evidence for your assertions, Froggie. For example, a failure to understand the difference between expressing a desire to kill someone and actively abetting an illegal and violent action against an elected government that actually resulted in its temporary removal is problematic. So is your failure to document any genuine shutdown of media broadcasters on political grounds alone rather than on the basis of association with anti-democratic thugs.

That political figures are ambitious and seek to extend their tenure is an obvious reality and is reflected in every single political election that ever occurs. That some legitimate anti-democratic element is involved in this is a claim that appears to be decidedly false in this context, especially considering my earlier commentary about the conflicts of term limits with democratic principles.

I'm merely waiting for you to tell us that Hatler was elected.

 

[JW Frogen]

See, I some times think you are so self absorbed you do not believe anything exists our there but your own thought, sort of God on a bad day.

Now I know you people of the south can be bianary and tribal but I am not bored enough to look it up for you, if you really cared about Venezuela (and you don't, you care about your ideology, the mass killer of all human apes) you could look up how Chaves has indeed tried to censor criticism not related to killing him. But that would not be convenient, and demagogues need connivance, eer ummm convenience.

As for the term limits, well, I mean, well? (It is a question mark I leave for you to figure out. (Hatler need not be involved.)

 

[Agnapostate]

Perth's a bit more "south" than Los Angeles, dear boy.

More relevantly, I know of information that supports the position that Chavez is a divinely endowed angel of Xenu sent to bring us the blessings of providence and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I could show you that evidence but I am not in the bored enough to look it up for you.