Antidepressants, pro or con?

Synch said:

Although I don't have personal experience with them, there was an article in the Economist that showed with the rise in sales of antidepressants, suicide rate has lowered by 2-3 per 100,000, age adjusted.

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dwelling on the negative aspects of my condition, or on the detriment that liberalism has on our country.

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tecoyah said:

In about ten or so years...once the Mass Clinical Trials have run their cources....we will have a better Idea of the long term effects of rewiring the brain through chemical manipulation. I do not look forward to an entire generation of Ridalin dependant adults holding positions of power in twenty years.

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Captain America said:

I have long thought that people expressing sentiment such as the sentiment above in quotes were the signs of a sick mind. There are a couple others lurking about here on this site. You are not alone. (Yeah, you know the ones.)

***What is sick about acknowledging that liberalism is the scourge of our country?

At least this one admits he is mentally challenged. That takes honsety and courage. A character trait, that is lacking in few others I also have in mind. I just didn't realize how mentally challenged he really was.

***Where is it that I admitted to being mentally challenged. I do admit that I wish for you liberals to mentally challenge me into debate, but so far you've all come up a bit short.

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ptsdkid said:

***Where is it that I admitted to being mentally challenged. I do admit that I wish for you liberals to mentally challenge me into debate, but so far you've all come up a bit short.

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tecoyah said:

Oh....Gimme a break Kid....every single time someone (liberal or otherwise) attempts to debate you, you run away like a schoolgirl. I have come to understand it is simply that you Have No Idea what debate actually consists of.....perhaps a lesson is in order?

Lemme know, I will happily give you a few tips, think of it as On the Job Training. Tortured Debate seems a Viable Venue....if you have interest.

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ptsdkid said:

I’m not sure that the words ‘suffering from depression’ were ever written in my final medical analysis. I’ve never really ever felt depressed (no suicidal ideation)…extremely sad at times, but that is the limit.

.

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ptsdkid said:

***Run away from debate....hardly! Debating liberals that haven no facts to bolster their side is better left for someone prone to child's play. May I suggest you look toward the teach---king of the basement dwellers. LOL!

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***Where is it that I admitted to being mentally challenged. I do admit that I wish for you liberals to mentally challenge me into debate, but so far you've all come up a bit short.

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Being a traumatized combat veteran, I had the choice as to accept prescribed antidepressant pills,

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I have been in and out of therapy for 40 years, with half my clinicians suggesting I start a medical plan by intaking various quantities of Paxil, Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Prozac, Clonipin and Trazadone or Ambien for sleep disorders.

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during my lengthy stay at the VA hospital at West haven, Connecticut about 14 years ago.

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tecoyah said:

I rest My Case.....As you seem to think ALL liberals lack the ability to use factual information, would that not mean you wont debate one? This is...running away.


***If in fact liberals used facts as debate fodder, then each and everyone of them would soon come running to the Republican Party where we always present the facts. Could it be that you have mistaken scenes from Michael Moore's movie as being fact ridden?


I have just given you the best opportunity you will get, to debate someone you claim is Liberal, who uses scientific evaluation for the majority of debate....these are generally accepted as fact. I also tend to qualify non factual Data with a statement proclaiming it is but my opinion. If you truly wish to Debate a Liberal, (which you regularly call me), who has an ability to use established fact for argument, the offer is wide open.

***Who what where and when did you give me an opportunity to debate a liberal? Present your facts as you see them so that we can on with this futuristic debate. Ball is now in your court.

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Urethra Franklin said:

And there's the rub. You didn't need anti-depressants because you were never depressed. What you make the mistake of doing is trying to assert that because they weren't for you, they're bad for everybody. Worse this I" got healthy with hard physical exercise so anybody can do it" attitude rather makes me reach for the sick bowl.


***Dear Uretha, I never said that anti depressants were bad for everybody. And I never said that everyone could do hard exercise. I merely told you how I had been around 6 combat veterans that committed suicide by overdosing on prescribed anti-depressants and the like. The PTSD combat veterans that I know of that still take these drugs are not doing so good heal wise. I'll leave it to you to give a personal story or two of those PTSD pill pushers that are doing wonderful with their drug treatment plans. I'm not saying that there aren't a few dopers that are doing well, but as Tecoya can tell you--I need proof before getting hoodwinked into accepting mere drivel.

I have been fortunate enough to never suffer from depression, but those who do can see a future so black they just don't know where to turn. The lifting of depression by medication can give people the oomph to change the things in their lives that were making them depressed in the first place. And of course in endogenous depression, well there is no external cause, so lifting it with medication can only be good. For what it's worth I do think anti-depressants are over prescribed in health systems where doctors don't have enough time to actually talk to their patients, and in health systems where prescribing makes money, and that needs closer inspection, but in the majority of cases of genuine clinical depression, they are a very useful tool - one to be used with caution, but one whose positive effects are to be valued. And we must never forget that each individual case is to be taken on its own merits: one man's medicine is another man's poison.


***Here you're starting to sound that you might be a bit skeptical about the over prescribing of anti depressants. Good work, you're on the right road to the truth. Don't stop your homework here when you're obviously getting so close to the truth.

Your comment about liberals is irrelevant and debases what was a very valid question. I am not a liberal, before you start.

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ptsdkid said:

***If in fact liberals used facts as debate fodder, then each and everyone of them would soon come running to the Republican Party where we always present the facts. Could it be that you have mistaken scenes from Michael Moore's movie as being fact ridden?

Interesting, as I was Republican for most of my Life....even through Bush 1. Yet I now Qualify as a Liberal in your mind....can there be a liberal republican?



***Who what where and when did you give me an opportunity to debate a liberal? Present your facts as you see them so that we can on with this futuristic debate. Ball is now in your court.

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Captain America said:

Might we assume you decided NOT to take your meds ptsdkid? :roll:

I certainly appears so. :shock:

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ptsdkid said:

***Assume what you like Captain, but since I deal in facts and reality--I'll leave it to you to decide whether I was telling the truth when I said I loathe the taking of dangerous drugs. I'll leave it to you to reread my original post stating that I box and jog regularly. That doesn't quite sound like someone dabbling in drug usage. You may not ever find a more clear and intelligent working mind, then you'll encounter when reading my posts. That's another fact, Jack!....LOL! Sow me what you got.

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Quote:
I have been in and out of therapy for 40 years, with half my clinicians suggesting I start a medical plan by intaking various quantities of Paxil, Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Prozac, Clonipin and Trazadone or Ambien for sleep disorders.

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Pen said:

I require some clarification on this claim:



The only medications you listed that existed 40 years ago are Clonipin and Trazadone. Prozac, the third generation of antidepressants, wasn't introduced until that late 80's. The remainder followed from that, except Ambien of course which is irrelevant to the class of AD drugs.

Forty freaking years ago, the VA wasn't even recognizing the diagnosis of PTSD for our Vietnam vets. I smell bull excrement. :roll:

Why should I have expected otherwise?

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ptsdkid said:

Every therapist that had prescribed dangerous drugs to me were without exception political liberals. Now I could go into detail as to why these liberals had prescribed drugs, and counter their practice by telling you why it was that every Conservative clinician prescribed natural therapies like CBT (Cognitive-Behaviorial Therapy), Systematic Desensitation, Exposure and Response treatment, Modeling Treatment, EMDR, Biofeedback, Breathing Retraining, Relaxation Techniques, Acupuncture, Physchotherapy, Psychodrama, et, etc etc....but I won't bother to burden you with the facts and political reasons until I see that you are ready for further debate.

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CaptainCourtesy said:

You know, ptsdkid, when I read your OP, I was certainly encouraged, as not only did it seem like it wasn't one of your typical 'I hate liberals, I hate Jews, I'm always right, I'm close-minded and refuse to listen to anything other than what is in my own little mind', but it seemed like an honest, information-gathering question that not only you related to quite articulately, but one that I have had a lot of experience with and therfore one that I wanted to discuss. Unfortunely, you fed right into the bait that brought back to your typical posting style. I will try to bring it back to your orignal question, which I think is a good one.


***First of all, its against my religious beliefs and upbringing to hate anyone, and that includes Jews or Liberals. I'm also anything but close-minded. Would you consider everyone that posts here having a strong set of opinions and beliefs to be close-minded? This is a debate forum. You, I or another presents a political case or issue with the intent for others to debate, evaluate, skew and offer opposing views. Just because I disagree wholeheartedly with the liberal and Jewish messages, doesn't mean that I hate them personally. Their message and their ideology is dangerous for America...that is what I 'hate'.

I have worked in the metal health field for more than 16 years, and have seen people on all of the medications you mentioned. In general, though not universally, I have seen them be amazingly effective with severe depression, but only in conjunction with therapy. Research shows that the most effective way to combat severe mood disorders is through a combination of psychiatric medication and therapy. It works better than either one alone. Note though, I said severe depression. Alhtough utilized for more moderate forms of the illness (and effective, too), many in the mental health community prefer to see clients who's disorders are not so severe, try to manage in therapy alone, before trying a medication. My opinion would be similar to that. There is certain symptomology that one would have to exhibit for me to believe that medication was the way to go. My brother became very depressed after my mother passed away. He was crying all day, couldn't work, didn't sleep, didn't leave the house, and stopped all activities he used to enjoy. His depression was severe and his therapist recommended he see a psychiatrist, whom prescribed Paxil. He is doing much better; has a job, goes out, is involved in activities, and reports feeling better. It was the combination of both the meds and therapy that have helped him, but the meds raised his mood enough to allow the therapy to work.


***I have to disagree with you concerning mixing psychothropic drugs with therapy for those suffering from extreme mood or emotional disorders.
I was an inpatient of a PTSD cohort of 30 combat veterans for 4 months at a Veterans Hospital in West Haven, CT. Most of these veterans were of the most extreme cases of PTSD that I had seen in my chronically traumatic lifetime. Many, if not all of them had entered the program having just been screened and made to wean off of dangerous street drugs and alcohol in order to enter the program. Rules of the program demanded that no one was to use drugs, otherwise they would have been kicked from the program. Breathalyzers and urine tests were administered twice a day to keep the standard policy. No prescribed medicines were allowed for the entire 4 month program. In other words--this was a tough love program made to benefit the patient for the long haul, by weaning them from any drug dependency they might of had in the past. Some of the more severe cases were carefully monitered by having at least one clinician and or a psyche nurse close by in case of emergency.
Many of the natural therapies that I had mentioned before were administered on a daily basis. Upon graduation of the 4 month program, each veteran was set up with a support team in which to utilize on an outpatient basis. No one had the option of receiving prescribed psychothropic drugs for their release from the program.
I have been in other VA hospitals doing 3 and 4 week tune-ups where prescribed medicines were indeed administered. The veterans taking these meds are almost always using these programs as a revolving door intiative. Bottom line, drugs create a dependency of a chemical reaction (with or without side effects) in order to stabalize their mood.
I did take many of those drugs during my first hospital stay. Weaning off of them was dangerous as I encountered life threatening panic attacks and multiple disscociate symptoms during the process.



Interesting. Again, having worked in the field for more than 16 years, and having dealt with scores of therapists and psychiatrists, gotten to know many of them personally (some are a few of my best friends), I have found EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE TRUE. It is the liberals that tend to either under prescribe or use more 'alternative' proceedures. If you think about it this makes perfect sense, as it is often one with a more liberal view that will do something more alternative, 'natural', or different. It is more the conservative mental health professionals that I know, that tend to be, what I call 'medicine men'. They give you a prescription after spending 10 minutes with you. I am speaking in generalities, as there are some conservatives and liberals that do approach medication in the opposite way I've mentioned. But the majority, don't.


***I totally disagree with you here. The very meaning of the term liberal is to go to the limit, like administering a 'liberal dosage' of said medicines. I could go to extremes in describing a liberal, but I'll refrain for now by keeping this response closer to the target. However, my personal experiences with these liberal clinicians tells a totally different story than what you have espoused.

Also, therapists don't prescribe medication (though they can recommend a psychiatric consult), pschiatrist do. The 'natural' therapies you mentioned aren't really that. They are forms of psychotherapy that therapists practice. They are often used in conjunction with medication, though they can (and often are) used without.

***You are right, therapists do not prescribe medicines--it is not their call or expertise.
Those therapies I mentioned are indeed 'natural'. We never, and I mean never used medications in conjucture with those therapies.

As far as your assertion that physical exercise can be helpful to someone's mood disorder, I completely agree. If someone has a severe mood disorder, however, it would be inappropriate and unethical to recommend just that. Does that person definitely need medication. Everyone is different, so there isn't a definative answer, but some combination of treatments would be indicated, and medication might be one. I certainly applaude your efforts to overcome your disorder.

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