Anti-austerity strikes and protests across Europe turn violent - live (1 Viewer)

[TheDemSocialist]

Protests are turning up all over Europe today. General strikes have been called for the whole of Europe. Some protests are turning violent, the worst is in Portugal reportedly.
My Solidarity is with these protesters.
Anti-austerity strikes and protests across Europe turn violent - live | Business | guardian.co.uk

 

[CalGun]

I feel bad for these people. They were lead into a nanny socialist state that could never possibly raise enough money to pay for it all. The examples of Portugal, Greece and Italy are going to be much like California and possibly New York in the future. While CA/NY are not nations they also can't print their Euro like the states can't print dollars. One day the world will see the paper called the dollar as being quite worthless; I fear that day. Mind you I also prepare for that day so it won't kill me like it will so many others.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

I feel bad for these people. They were lead into a nanny socialist state that could never possibly raise enough money to pay for it all. The examples of Portugal, Greece and Italy are going to be much like California and possibly New York in the future. While CA/NY are not nations they also can't print their Euro like the states can't print dollars. One day the world will see the paper called the dollar as being quite worthless; I fear that day. Mind you I also prepare for that day so it won't kill me like it will so many others.

:roll:
Yes the "socialist nanny state" lead them to this. :roll: Keep believing that pathetic talking point.

 

[Rainman05]

You're all pathetic for thinking that european states are socialist states. With the exception of Portugal, who has in its legislation a few socialist, non-marxist items, all European countries are not socialist countries.

 

[Fisher]

:roll:
Yes the "socialist nanny state" lead them to this. :roll: Keep believing that pathetic talking point.

Are they striking to protest military/infrastructure cuts or are they striking to protest social program cuts?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Are they striking to protest military/infrastructure cuts or are they striking to protest social program cuts?

:doh
Just because you have social programs that does not make it "socialist"...
Socialism is not "social programs", socialism is the workers owning the means of production.

 

[Canell]

:doh
Just because you have social programs that does not make it "socialist"...
Socialism is not "social programs", socialism is the workers owning the means of production.

I recon he meant $ocialism. Yes, most Europeans countries are $ocialist now.

Btw, what happened with that "Occupy Wall Street" camp, was it blown away by Sandy?

 

[Rainman05]

I recon he meant $ocialism. Yes, most Europeans countries are $socialist now.

Btw, what happened with that "Occupy Wall Street" camp, was it blown away by Sandy?

I think I have ran out of ways to say this so I will let Cox say it for me.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

I recon he meant $ocialism. Yes, most Europeans countries are $ocialist now.

Are you trying to say that there is a difference between "socialism" and "$ocialism"?

Btw, what happened with that "Occupy Wall Street" camp, was it blown away by Sandy?

Naa man there still alive actually helping with relief efforts.
We Got This (Occupy Sandy) | OccupyWallSt.org

And there still alive not just with the relief effort : Occupy, this time for the people's debt - CNN.com

 

[JayDubya]

So your solidarity is with people who resort to violence over the government paying its bills...

Hrrrrm.

 

[Canell]

I think I have ran out of ways to say this so I will let Cox say it for me.

No? I don't think so.

socialism = workers in control of the means of production, their community and their lives

$ocialism= big government = the state owns the mean of production OR CLOSE TO IT. When the government collects 1/2 of your income I call that $ocialism.

Bottom line - socialism is only possible small scale (on corporate or communal level). If it grows larger it becomes $ocialism.

The dessert:

 

[Mach]

Like the entire marxist/socialist/communist conjecture in general, it was angry for good reasons, but blamed the wrong reasons, and similarly wanted bad "solutions".

For example, if you instead saved for your own retirement, you can get rates similar to big nanny rates, but you have control and don't have to gut your payout just because some asshole in government screwed you. No, legally you should be protected FROM government misdeeds. You don't want that though, you want government to make the laws, and control your retirement (and other benefits), and what are you going to do if they screw you? Apparently the only thing they can do is impotent protest and violence.

What do I do if my investment broker screws me? I can sue them or change brokers the next day, or just do the investing myself (let's face it, retirement investment for dummies is absurdly easy) No impotent protest needed, no violence needed. All that time spent flash-mob organizing and protesting, you could have learned how to take care of your own retirement and health insurance. But who wants that, it's not as exciting as European solidary protests!! Rage against the machine!!! Raaahhhhhh.

Fools.

 

[PeteEU]

Protests are turning up all over Europe today. General strikes have been called for the whole of Europe. Some protests are turning violent, the worst is in Portugal reportedly.
My Solidarity is with these protesters.
Anti-austerity strikes and protests across Europe turn violent - live | Business | guardian.co.uk

First off it is not "all over Europe". Its like 5 to 8 countries.. there are over 40 countries in "Europe".

Secondly the "violence" is quite isolated considering how many went out on strike and not that unusual. There are always a few idiots who are looking for a fight and then there is of course the conservative run government in Spain and Madrid who were against these protests and actually threatened to ban strikes... which just pissed people of even more. I would also wager that quite a lot of the "violence" was the jackboots of heavy handed police under orders from conservative lawmakers to hit down hard where ever they can.

But today in Spain there was a supposed national strike, and I went out shopping. The buses seemed not to run but the trains did. The post office was closed but 90% of all other shops were open. School was out so there was a lot of parents and kids outside enjoying the nice weather. It was basically a normal day for the most part. So much for that "national strike".

Just be very wary when digesting the news, especially from British news sources on Europe.. lots of it is hype and quite a bit of it is wrong.

 

[paris]

First off it is not "all over Europe". Its like 5 to 8 countries.. there are over 40 countries in "Europe".

Secondly the "violence" is quite isolated considering how many went out on strike and not that unusual. There are always a few idiots who are looking for a fight and then there is of course the conservative run government in Spain and Madrid who were against these protests and actually threatened to ban strikes... which just pissed people of even more. I would also wager that quite a lot of the "violence" was the jackboots of heavy handed police under orders from conservative lawmakers to hit down hard where ever they can.

But today in Spain there was a supposed national strike, and I went out shopping. The buses seemed not to run but the trains did. The post office was closed but 90% of all other shops were open. School was out so there was a lot of parents and kids outside enjoying the nice weather. It was basically a normal day for the most part. So much for that "national strike".

Just be very wary when digesting the news, especially from British news sources on Europe.. lots of it is hype and quite a bit of it is wrong.

Yea, there is a lot of wishful "thinking" going on in there, in the minds of our anglo-saxon "friends"

 

[Rainman05]

No? I don't think so.

socialism = workers in control of the means of production, their community and their lives

$ocialism= big government = the state owns the mean of production OR CLOSE TO IT. When the government collects 1/2 of your income I call that $ocialism.

Bottom line - socialism is only possible small scale (on corporate or communal level). If it grows larger it becomes $ocialism.

The dessert:

Oh dear God.
Yes, your definitions are correct, but how the hell do they apply in Europe? Come on... please stop it. Just, don't make me repeat it. I have repeated it at least once every day for the past 2 weeks in numerous threads as to why European countries are NOT socialist countries. Why they are very capitalist countries with an mixed economic model (just like the US is) but with functioning social programs which does not make them socialist since social programs are not the invention of socialists but liberals and conservatives and sometimes, nationalists. But not socialists.

Don't make go over it again...

THERE IS NO SOCIALISM IS EUROPE! THE ONE EXCEPTION WHICH HAS SOME (very little) SOCIALISM, OF THE NON-MARXIST, MARKET-LIBERAL KIND, IS PORTUGAL. NOTHING ELSE. THE SCANDINAVIAN COUNTRIES ARE NOT SOCIALIST. THEY ARE QUITE CAPITALIST COUNTRIES THAT EMPLOY THE NORDIC ECONOMIC MODEL, WHICH IS LIKE THE MIXED ECONOMIC MODEL, BUT WITH SOME TWISTS. THEY DO HOWEVER, LIKE ALL OF WESTERN EUROPE, HAVE VERY WELL WORKING SOCIAL PROGRAMS.

EDIT: The very video you posted shows what I am saying. It enforced what I have been saying all along.

 

[Canell]

THERE IS NO SOCIALISM IS EUROPE!

That's what I'm trying to say all along. There is no socialism in Europe and has never been (except in small communes of various types). But there is $ocialism, aka "big government".
I live in Europe too, I know what I am talking about.

 

[RGacky3]

No? I don't think so.

socialism = workers in control of the means of production, their community and their lives

$ocialism= big government = the state owns the mean of production OR CLOSE TO IT. When the government collects 1/2 of your income I call that $ocialism.

Bottom line - socialism is only possible small scale (on corporate or communal level). If it grows larger it becomes $ocialism.

The dessert:

That's nonsense, you can have it on a large scale as well, just federated and decentralized.

For example, if you instead saved for your own retirement, you can get rates similar to big nanny rates, but you have control and don't have to gut your payout just because some asshole in government screwed you. No, legally you should be protected FROM government misdeeds. You don't want that though, you want government to make the laws, and control your retirement (and other benefits), and what are you going to do if they screw you? Apparently the only thing they can do is impotent protest and violence.

A lot of those countries privitized their pensions ... also what are you gonna do if a bank screws you? You can't vote for a bank.

]What do I do if my investment broker screws me? I can sue them or change brokers the next day, or just do the investing myself (let's face it, retirement investment for dummies is absurdly easy) No impotent protest needed, no violence needed. All that time spent flash-mob organizing and protesting, you could have learned how to take care of your own retirement and health insurance. But who wants that, it's not as exciting as European solidary protests!! Rage against the machine!!! Raaahhhhhh.

You can change an investment broker all you want, unless you have a ton of money its not gonna really effect them, and since all the investment brokers are in competition for profits they are all going to be trying to screw the financially vulnurable and economically less powerful.

See thats the difference, you want votes to be with dollars, thus basically creating a plutocracy, I think it should be one person one vote.

 

[Canell]

That's nonsense, you can have it on a large scale as well, just federated and decentralized.

An how exactly is this going to be? Would you elaborate, please.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

First off it is not "all over Europe". Its like 5 to 8 countries.. there are over 40 countries in "Europe".

Secondly the "violence" is quite isolated considering how many went out on strike and not that unusual. There are always a few idiots who are looking for a fight and then there is of course the conservative run government in Spain and Madrid who were against these protests and actually threatened to ban strikes... which just pissed people of even more. I would also wager that quite a lot of the "violence" was the jackboots of heavy handed police under orders from conservative lawmakers to hit down hard where ever they can.

But today in Spain there was a supposed national strike, and I went out shopping. The buses seemed not to run but the trains did. The post office was closed but 90% of all other shops were open. School was out so there was a lot of parents and kids outside enjoying the nice weather. It was basically a normal day for the most part. So much for that "national strike".

Just be very wary when digesting the news, especially from British news sources on Europe.. lots of it is hype and quite a bit of it is wrong.

Thanks for the clarification Pete