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-- 1. That old woman was stung for something that's only a crime in the eyes of legislators (selling a fish to a 14-year old, and one who looked older to boot). And it's only been on the statute books 4 years.
--2. Halal/kosher is an example of something much worse on the animal cruelty front --
So whales are haram? If so, one up for Islam.Animals that are born and live in water are all Haram with the exception of fish. All types of fishes are Halal, with the exception of that which dies naturally in the sea without any external cause. However, if a fish was to die due to some external cause such as cold, heat, being thrown to the shore by the water, colliding with a stone, etc, then it would be Halal
Oooo, can't put an animal in the charge of a child! Surely there's no historical precedent for kids being able to take care of poor little fishy-wishies, squeaky wittle guinea pigs or fwuffy bunny-wabbits!
And you're deliberately splitting hairs - but this horse is too dead to flog, so you may as well.
If you ban kids from buying animals then obviously you don't want them to take care of their own pets. Otherwise, why ban 'em? Especially when parents can do the filthy, degrading deal on their behalf when little Jimmy age 9 wants a gekko anyway.
While in the shop, the council officer who was with the boy noticed a cockatiel in a poor state of health with a sign on the cage that said ‘cockatiels £30’.
The officer, along with a vet, returned to the Ashfield Road shop last July and the vet diagnosed the bird had a broken leg, eye problems and laboured breathing. It was so unwell it had to be put down.
-- he real question perhaps is to ask what (or who) the Government are so scared of to keep halal going, whilst this rubbish passed into the statute books with straight faces all round.
Particularly when Labour people up the ante of schitzophrenic hypocrisy yet another notch by calling for ZOOS and CIRCUSES to be banned:
Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Labour call to ban zoos
Surely if you want to ban circuses because of animal abuses by some ringmasters then surely kosher/halal should also be outlawed?*
LABOUR - Spoiling the fun for ordinary kids, whilst letting dogmatic reactionaries torture animals for 'cultural' reasons as only experts can!
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* Perhaps it's got something to do with certain people causing trouble if you want them to modernise? God, they're on a par with the EDL at times!
Can't take the heat of a dead horse? I think that would be because it's decomposing at an abnormal rate old son! Nevertheless I can still this running, if only by putting it on a trolley and pushing the thing!
-- I've got a feeling there'd be noise from the usual suspects if that shopkeeper woman DIDN'T sell the rodent to the handicapped girl. If that got in the papers, Guardian perhaps, there'd be all kinds of liberal wailing about Equal Ops! (Or if not that then certainly uptight lectures about the principle of the thing!)
-- Also irrelevant is your 'fish' question. But I'll still say that all creatures for food must die and all death isn't really very nice. But there's no other way to land fish, especially in such quantities needed to feed a modern bloated populace.
-- I've answered a direct question, now answer mine: Why should zoos be banned, or shopkeepers tricked into selling 'illegal' fish to get prosecuted, whilst the Government doesn't care a jot about the many more animal victims of kosher/halal?
-- Particularly when Labour people up the ante of schitzophrenic hypocrisy yet another notch by calling for ZOOS and CIRCUSES to be banned:
Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Labour call to ban zoos --
-- Labour minister Angela Smith, who called the popular entertainments “relics of the Victorian era” -- Ms Smith, who earlier this year boycotted an event she was due to attend in her capacity as a minister because it was being held at London Zoo, is patron of the Captive Animals’ Protection Society campaign group.
The body believes zoos are part of the entertainment industry and that while they claim to do important work for conservation, endangered and captive bred species are rarely, if ever, released back into the wild -- However, Animal Welfare Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said his Government colleague had overstepped her remit.
He said: “Angela doesn’t have responsibility for this area. We’re not going anywhere near zoos.”
All you do is show that your interest is in what Muslims do on a small scale in comparison to what trawlermen around the world do on a huge scale.
However, death by halal IS avoidable, ISN'T the only and most humane option and IS ONLY allowed because there may be very loud whining if it isn't.
Come come. Come come come now. Oh come now come now, come now come! Come now... You accuse me of deflection whilst you do the same yourself!
Another reply, another attempt at splitting hairs. As I say, if you ban shopkeepers from selling animals to kids then that effectively bans kids from buying them.
What's more you said before that this story wasn't about animal cruelty, but all of a sudden it now is! Plus, had the woman been prosecuted over the other alleged incidents then I wouldn't be talking about an underhand and sneaky sting involving an 'overage'-looking kid.
-- You then talk about anglers being able to stun their catch but then switch to talking about trawlermen instead. Anglers only catch a few fish, mainly for pleasure before throwing them back, whilst trawlermen land hundreds at a time for food.
-- And as for the zoo story, I merely made the point that people from Labour can bang on about animal rights in regards to zoos, pet shops and circuses but leave this huge hole where the kosher/halal issue sits! (Nothing falls apart by you pointing out the 'wrong' minister!) And I can't be somehow shoehorning halal in, seeing as it was what I started the topic off with in the first place!
-- Now... address the question you erroneously claimed to have answered: Why should zoos be banned, or shopkeepers tricked into selling 'illegal' fish to get prosecuted, whilst the Government doesn't care a jot about the many more animal victims of kosher/halal?
Glad to see we're in accord over something (second sentence), though it does look remarkably like what I said the previous statement... Word for word by the look if it.... Hmm.....
-- Halal isn't on a small scale though. It's epidemic. Muslims boast, in a virtually passive-aggressive manner at the very least, that they're adherents of the fastest growing religion, so we'd better get used to it. Their 'practices' need keep up with this apparent demographic nuclear explosion.
News Excerpts about Islam - The Fastest Growing Religion - What they say?
On the first point, it is splitting hairs because you get to the same destination via the most expedient route - not having kids get their own pets by banning the sale of animals to them.
-- And as I say, if the pet shop woman had been collared on any real charges, as opposed to one fabricated in a sting, then I wouldn't have been able to include the story.
--And as for the fish, I repeat again that it wouldn't be practical for trawlermen to stun and kill each one in turn, whilst with halal you can have practical control over how the animals expire.
And in the end the question is still avoided as to how the issue of kosher/halal is left out of the whole animal rights debate. Who's to be afraid of?
Let's have it again, just to refresh ourselves. And just to be fair, I'll amend it a touch: Why should zoos be banned, or shopkeepers tricked into selling 'illegal' fish to get prosecuted, whilst the Government doesn't [seem to] care a jot about the many more animal victims of kosher/halal?
Yes indeed there is an age of responsibility at which kids can be deemed responsible for their actions, and like it or lump it there's a law to say you can't sell animals to kids. I just find it ironic that kids can be perfectly able to look after animals as much as adults if they have the wish. Just one of those things.
Well as I say, if the woman had been collared for another parrot incident, for example, rather than being tricked into selling an animal to a boy who looked older then I'd not complain about the sneakiness of it all.
I don't mind you repeating things over the course of the next five pages. I'm flattered you like my company that much.
No, I'm not 'fishist'. I am bothered about cruelty to millions of animals but with kosher or halal you can quite easily stun them before killing them, a luxury you can't extend to fish without taking a day to land what you'd normally get in 10 minutes.
-- We've had a link to the Labour person banging on about zoos and what-not. And though Manchester Trading standards are an entity apart from HM Government, the two are related by legislation. The point was questioning the hypocrisy of Labour people going on about animal rights without one word of mention about halal, something actually encouraged.
Here it is again, in its re-re-amended form: Why should zoos be banned [in the opinion of that Labour person, though legislation is yet to be submitted], or shopkeepers tricked into selling 'illegal' fish [by trading standards officers not directly intimate with government policy makers or advisors] to get prosecuted [though evidently not in an effort to criminalise minors], whilst the Government doesn't [seem to] care a jot about the many more animal victims of kosher/halal? [Though in some quarters the fate of trawled fish are comparible.]
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