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Amazing moment Jane Fonda accepts a BAFTA award while being arrested for the THIRD time on the steps

Irredentist said:
So you can forgive the Vietnamese soldiers who actually fought against American soldiers, but not Jane Fonda, who only pretended to do so in a photo one time.

That doesn't make any sense.
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Uh...yes, it does. The Vietnamese soldiers were only doing their duty and didn’t have a choice anyway; the communist government there was rather harsh on “wreckers”.

Jane Fonda chose to participate in North Vietnamese propaganda at a time when they were doing their best to kill Americans, torturing American POWs, and committing numerous atrocities against South Vietnamese and Montagnard civilians.
 

So what? Americans committed atrocities too. War isn't black and white. I don't see any reason to prefer American propaganda to Vietnamese.
 

She's living in DC for 14 weeks. It's not like she flew in for a rally and then left. Even then, I would still hesitate to criticize because you can't get from one coast to the other and back again without a plane or at least a week to spare.
 

She claims it wasn't intentional. It's still her fault, but I don't think she had intention.
 
Irredentist said:
So you can forgive the Vietnamese soldiers who actually fought against American soldiers, but not Jane Fonda, who only pretended to do so in a photo one time.

That doesn't make any sense.
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Most soldiers didn't have a choice, Fonda did. We did as ordered, no one ordered Fonda to desert to Hanoi. She was a civilian which we supposedly were fighting to protect. I don't think most civilians can ever understand the military mind. I don't expect you too.
 
Irredentist said:
So what? Americans committed atrocities too. War isn't black and white. I don't see any reason to prefer American propaganda to Vietnamese.
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There’s an important difference between a bombing raid going awry and deliberately firing RPGs into nightclubs or hacking up villagers with machetes.....or helping the Khmer Rouge get into power.

So if someone went to, say, Nazi Germany in 1943 and started running around with the SS you wouldn’t have a problem with it?
 
Grand Mal said:
Right.
My point was that the term 'Viet Cong' referred to the South Vietnamese NLF. A gun installation in Hanoi isn't likely to have been manned by Viet Cong.
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I don't understand your fixation with the Viet Cong. Since 1968 the VC because of the heavy casualties they absorbed during Tet basically became a non-existent force, at least an ineffectual one. . It was the regular NVA units that carried on the fight. From around 1960 the VC were heavily reinforced by the NVA.

Besides our planes flying over Hanoi weren't bombing the VC. Weren't engaging the VC.
 

Maybe you should consider that you weren't actually fighting to protect civilians like Jane Fonda at all.
 
Nalu said:
She claims it wasn't intentional. It's still her fault, but I don't think she had intention.
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Not using your brain before you act in hopes of scoring “points” with your friends is not an excuse.
 

This assumes that the US wasn't deliberately perpetrating war crimes against Vietnam, which is not true.
 
She didn't desert anywhere. She was never a combatant nor was she part of the US military. US politicians literally party with the governments funding attacks happening in the US; both in terms of cyber attacks and terrorist ones. I bet if you tried really hard you could pull some statistic from a site that explains why you shouldn't care about that as much as you do reviewing the numbers some politician who will funnel money to the Saudi needs to get elected.

Your grudge is funny.

Sent from the Matrioshka in the WH Christmas tree.
 

I don't blame you for feeling that way, but I think it is a little silly to be mad at Fonda for something that happened almost 50 years ago, that she has apologized for profusely, and that was a reaction to what she thought were human rights abuses committed by the American government. I assume you haven't supported her financially or in any other way for all these decades. That seems like it should be good enough, but to each his own.
 

Fixation? C'mon. I was just correcting a post that said Jane Fonda was photographed in a Viet Cong gun emplacement in Hanoi. You know that's wrong, but it's certainly not a detail that's worth all the effort this has turned into.
Why are you on about this? I'm sorry now I even stuck my nose in. Tell you what- scroll back to where I first posted, pick out what you disagree with and I'll take it back.
 

I think they have been for 30 years. The Vietnamese have been observers to our Cobra Gold exercises in Thailand for the last 5 years and will soon, within a year or become active participants. They've allowed our aircraft carriers to dock at DaNang. Their military and ours are on very friendly terms.

I've seen very little if any animosity coming from them or even from most Vietnam Vets for each other. Jane Fonda is different. Vietnam is a beautiful place with beautiful people. I'm glad we're friends and that our two countries are becoming closer.
 
Irredentist said:
This assumes that the US wasn't deliberately perpetrating war crimes against Vietnam, which is not true.
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Which is, again, ignoring the fact that there is an important difference between an airstrike going awry and deliberately targeting South Vietnamese and Montagnard civilians.

I’m sure if you dig on the internet you can find a list of “war crimes” the US committed against the Nazis too. Does that mean it’s okay for someone to have gone to Nazi Germany and run around helping the SS?
 
Irredentist said:
Maybe you should consider that you weren't actually fighting to protect civilians like Jane Fonda at all.
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I think most service members have good intentions. Our government rarely does, but I'm not sure it's fair to judge the military for the evil machinations of their political bosses.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Not using your brain before you act in hopes of scoring “points” with your friends is not an excuse.
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No one claimed it's an excuse. Not even Fonda did that. She said it was an accident and that she's sorry.
 
In the end, America left North Vietnam, the North won and American delegations now kowtow to Vietnam's ruling elite for cheap factories. The one person who should have their life hated on for life is the one person who didn't send one American soldier to die, or make the decision to draft anyone, or even shoot anyone.

That's who we should REALLY be angry at.

****ing goofballs.

Sent from the Matrioshka in the WH Christmas tree.
 
Nalu said:
It seems that Fonda was protesting the government and the war, not the service members, but it also seems that she went about it in a pretty dumbass way.
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I would say at this point in time there isn't any, at least that I know of, Vietnam Vets who old any animosity towards the protesters of the war. At least those who never went to Hanoi North Vietnam and sat in an aircraft gun with a pith helmet on. That in my opinion was much more than just protesting the war and the government. It was giving aid and comfort to the enemy. It wasn't just protesting, it was taking sides with the North Vietnamese.

This I highly doubt is understandable to those who weren't there or at least alive to remember it. If she did her protesting in Washington D.C., she would have been just a name or face in the crowd. I'd say by going to North Vietnam and doing what she did she brought this animosity on herself.
 
Nalu said:
No one claimed it's an excuse. Not even Fonda did that. She said it was an accident and that she's sorry.
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“Accident”? What, did she think she was getting on a plane to Saigon instead? A deliberate choice is not an “accident”.
 

She really seems to care....about what? I have no idea.




=============

That was a joke, Jane Fonda is an American treasure who represents everything in a woman that old, cranky republicans could never get. Weak men are always intimidated by strong women.

opcorn2:
 

Well, I was neither in the Vietnam War nor alive when it happened. I still have a perspective, although it obviously differs from yours. Just seems like a lot of outrage over a stupid thing that some celebrity did 50 years ago. I'm not even mad at Snowden and he strikes me as more traiterous than Fonda.
 
Tigerace117 said:
“Accident”? What, did she think she was getting on a plane to Saigon instead? A deliberate choice is not an “accident”.
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That's a stupid question. You must not have read post 15.

In her 2005 memoir, “My Life So Far,” Fonda wrote of the infamous photo this way:

Here is my best, honest recollection of what took place. Someone (I don’t remember who) leads me toward the gun, and I sit down, still laughing, still applauding. It all has nothing to do with where I am sitting. I hardly even think about where I am sitting. The cameras flash. I get up, and as I start to walk back to the car with the translator, the implication of what has just happened hits me. Oh, my God. It’s going to look like I was trying to shoot down U.S. planes! I plead with him, You have to be sure those photographs are not published. Please, you can’t let them be published. I am assured it will be taken care of. I don’t know what else to do. It is possible that the Vietnamese had it all planned. I will never know. If they did, can I really blame them? The buck stops here. If I was used, I allowed it to happen. It was my mistake, and I have paid and continue to pay a heavy price for it.
 

She also looks great and is vibrant, active, and I assume healthy. Most of them will be dead by age 81.
 

To some, probably. To others, understandable.
 
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