Alabama’s Insane New Abortion Law

[TheDemSocialist]

Ever since Sandra Day O’Connor resigned from the Supreme Court in 2006, anti-abortion activists have been playing a game of chicken with the justices. On one side are the activists, who want to push anti-abortion laws as far as they can without getting slapped down by the court. On the other side is Justice Anthony Kennedy, who wants to let states make abortions harder and harder to obtain without actually outlawing them. For more than 20 years, Kennedy has approved literally every anti-abortion law he’s encountered, leading some liberals to fear he’d finally abandoned Roe v. Wade altogether.

Soon, however, Kennedy may finally be forced to balk. On Tuesday, the ACLUsued to halt an extreme new Alabama law targeting minors who are seeking abortions. The measure is very clearly designed to degrade and humiliate teenage girls, far beyond what any state has previously attempted (and what the Supreme Court has allowed). Alabama already requires a minor to secure parental consent before obtaining an abortion, but if she cannot—if, for instance, it was her parent who raped and impregnated her—she can ask a judge to bypass this requirement. The new law takes that judicial bypass and turns it on its head, permitting the judge to appoint a lawyer to represent the minor’s fetus and advocate for its best interests. The judge may bring the district attorney into court to question the minor. And, worst of all, the district attorney can call witnesses to testify against the minor—and in favor of her fetus.

All of this is quite heinous. But it gets much worse. If the judge rules in favor of the minor, the district attorney is now permitted by law to appeal the ruling and make his case all over again to a higher court. By letting the district attorney call an endless number of witnesses then appeal an unfavorable ruling, the law creates a loophole that could let the state delay a minor’s abortion to the point that she couldn’t even legally receive one. (In Alabama, that’s 20 weeks, unless there is a threat to the mother’s health.) If Alabama gets away with this law, in other words, it’ll have effectively nullified young women’s constitutional right to an abortion.

Read more @:
[h=1]Alabama’s Insane New Abortion Law[/h]

What!?!? What!?! A fetus gets a lawyer!? And it can be appealed until the teen gives birth!?

 

[iguanaman]

If that law stands there are going to a lot of illegal abortionists setting up shop in Alabama and a lot of women crossing state lines too. It is blatantly un-Constitutional and won't reduce a womens desire to seek an abortion one bit.

 

[TeleKat]

Well this is Alabama we're talking about here.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Read more @:
[h=1]Alabama’s Insane New Abortion Law[/h]

What!?!? What!?! A fetus gets a lawyer!? And it can be appealed until the teen gives birth!?

[/FONT][/COLOR]

Does it also have the right to remain silent?

 

[Bigfoot 88]

Brilliant concept.

 

[Conservative65]

If that law stands there are going to a lot of illegal abortionists setting up shop in Alabama and a lot of women crossing state lines too. It is blatantly un-Constitutional and won't reduce a womens desire to seek an abortion one bit.

Give 'em coathangers.

 

[Lursa]

I understand the thinking behind allowing minors to have abortions without parental consent but I am against that.

It is a medical procedure that puts her life at risk. A minor does not necessarily understand or even know their entire medical histories. They may choose to ignore health risks. I dont necessarily agree that 18 is a black and white 'line' between adult and minor but it's a baseline which indicates ability to make good decisions. There's a reason for that.

If there is the possibility of incest, then it looks like there are options for court involvement there.

 

[RAMOSS]

I understand the thinking behind allowing minors to have abortions without parental consent but I am against that.

It is a medical procedure that puts her life at risk. A minor does not necessarily understand or even know their entire medical histories. They may choose to ignore health risks. I dont necessarily agree that 18 is a black and white 'line' between adult and minor but it's a baseline which indicates ability to make good decisions. There's a reason for that.

If there is the possibility of incest, then it looks like there are options for court involvement there.

I know a couple of 16 year olds that had abortions (of course, they are in the late 40's to late 50's now).

One thing there is today is a lot larger number of birth control options, even if the long term 'don't need to take a pill every day' ones are a bit expensive

I am going to be interested in seeing what effects vasagel will have on teen pregnancies when it becomes available in a few years. That is cheaper, and also long term, but for men, not for women. However, if I was a woman, I wouldn't trust a man who said they had that procedure. (Men lie to get laid, in case anybody didn't notice).

 

[doniston]

I do understand the need for the teen to get parental approval but also the Judical approval in the case of incess. The rule allowing a fetus' attorney, seems a bit ridicules and IMO leans a bit to the unconstitutional with regards to the rights of the pregnant teen. That part of the law should be overturned.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Read more @:
[h=1]Alabama’s Insane New Abortion Law[/h]

What!?!? What!?! A fetus gets a lawyer!? And it can be appealed until the teen gives birth!?

[/FONT][/COLOR]

Good luck putting it on the stand

 

[Slartibartfast]

I do understand the need for the teen to get parental approval but also the Judical approval in the case of incess. The rule allowing a fetus' attorney, seems a bit ridicules and IMO leans a bit to the unconstitutional with regards to the rights of the pregnant teen. That part of the law should be overturned.

Its likely designed to be challenged in court so that the idea of a fetus being a person or a citizen can be floated in legal grounds.

 

[blarg]

Good luck putting it on the stand

actually that would solve the problem rather well

 

[Lursa]

If that law stands there are going to a lot of illegal abortionists setting up shop in Alabama and a lot of women crossing state lines too. It is blatantly un-Constitutional and won't reduce a womens desire to seek an abortion one bit.

It's about punishing women. You know...the sluts that should have kept their legs closed. Including the ones with kids already, the single and married women that never want kids, and the married ones that cant afford more.

Tough ****....you deserve to die or be permanently maimed you whores.

(I'd write /sarcasm but it is sadly all too real)

 

[Dittohead not!]

It's about punishing women. You know...the sluts that should have kept their legs closed. Including the ones with kids already, the single and married women that never want kids, and the married ones that cant afford more.

Tough ****....you deserve to die or be permanently maimed you whores.

(I'd write /sarcasm but it is sadly all too real)

Writing "sarcasm" should be redundant, but you never know.

I remember a movie about a young woman back in the good old days who went to a convent to have her baby. The baby was, of course, taken away from her. The pain she felt from the delivery and separation was just punishment for having had sex, according to the nuns. I can't remember the name of the movie, but it was a true story. The young woman, now an old woman, was shown at then end telling about her feelings.

 

[Lursa]

Writing "sarcasm" should be redundant, but you never know.

I remember a movie about a young woman back in the good old days who went to a convent to have her baby. The baby was, of course, taken away from her. The pain she felt from the delivery and separation was just punishment for having had sex, according to the nuns. I can't remember the name of the movie, but it was a true story. The young woman, now an old woman, was shown at then end telling about her feelings.

I believe that there is a Christian belief or story that the pain women feel at birth is their punishment for sex, period. Sex is still 'bad', but it's a evil necessity or some such crap. It's Eve's punishment for giving Adam the apple. It disgusts me when I hear this kind of stuff about my religion.

 

[Dittohead not!]

I believe that there is a Christian belief or story that the pain women feel at birth is their punishment for sex, period. Sex is still 'bad', but it's a evil necessity or some such crap. It's Eve's punishment for giving Adam the apple. It disgusts me when I hear this kind of stuff about my religion.

and men who believe this would never inflict pain on any woman that they cared about by having sex with them. There must be a lot of celibate men, therefore.

Right?

 

[Scrabaholic]

I believe that there is a Christian belief or story that the pain women feel at birth is their punishment for sex, period. Sex is still 'bad', but it's a evil necessity or some such crap. It's Eve's punishment for giving Adam the apple. It disgusts me when I hear this kind of stuff about my religion.

I wonder why God saw fit to punish animals for something Eve did. Animals feel pain in giving birth, too.

 

[Dittohead not!]

I wonder why God saw fit to punish animals for something Eve did. Animals feel pain in giving birth, too.

well, not all animals. Bears, for example, don't even wake up. Marsupials have young so small that they must not even feel them coming out.

Oh, and the serpents.... there must be some conclusion to that.

 

[Scrabaholic]

well, not all animals. Bears, for example, don't even wake up. Marsupials have young so small that they must not even feel them coming out.

Yeah,they did luck out! But I know some do feel pain in birthing, horses for example. Not sure what they did to piss God off.....

.

 

[Fedor50]

This is GREAT news!

Good job on Alabama for protecting the constitutional rights of these innocent human beings

 

[Dittohead not!]

Yeah,they did luck out! But I know some do feel pain in birthing, horses for example. Not sure what they did to piss God off.....

.

It must have been pretty terrible.

Serpents get away with everything. Did you know that the males have two penises?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

What!?!? What!?! A fetus gets a lawyer!?

Why should a human being who is facing the prospect of having his life taken in a legally-sanctioned manner not be entitled to the representation of a lawyer to argue for his right to live? We allow this right to the very worst criminals, why not to the most innocent and defenseless of all human beings?

 

[cpwill]

It's about punishing women. You know...the sluts that should have kept their legs closed. Including the ones with kids already, the single and married women that never want kids, and the married ones that cant afford more.

Tough ****....you deserve to die or be permanently maimed you whores.

(I'd write /sarcasm but it is sadly all too real)

That is an interesting claim. Can you cite anyone on this forum making that argument, or demonstrate anywhere that a majority of Alabamians hold that belief?


(Hint: you can't because it is a lie. You are taking how you feel about something, and projecting the opposite of it onto people with whom you disagree)

 

[matchlight]

I don't know if this law would pass constitutional muster or not, and neither does anyone else. What I do know, though, is that this piece of agitprop from Slate is very simple-minded stuff, full of dumb misstatements of the law and bizarre, extravagant conclusions drawn from what this or that justice wrote. The significance the author gives what Justice Kennedy wrote in Lawrence about Casey is ridiculous.

 

[cpwill]

I believe that there is a Christian belief or story that the pain women feel at birth is their punishment for sex, period. Sex is still 'bad', but it's a evil necessity or some such crap. It's Eve's punishment for giving Adam the apple. It disgusts me when I hear this kind of stuff about my religion.

You may want to spend some time studying "your religion".

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,

“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

16 To the woman he said,

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

Both man and woman suffer in this life because of our fallen nature. Not because God designed us to be sexual beings.

Furthermore, Sex is not evil. It is, in fact, wonderful and mysterious.

2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?”

3 “What did Moses command you?” he replied.

4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.”

5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied. 6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a] 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’[c] So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

In fact, sex is so powerful that it somehow - in Gods eyes - merges us. It is wrapped up irreversibly in marriage itself. This is part of why Jesus was so dead-set against divorce; it is, in His eyes, a kind of murder of the being created by the joining of the two. We see this again reflected later:

12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

In the discussion over the fact that this merger is so powerful that it is possible even the salvation of one might save the other.