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Air France plane disappears above the atlantic

Truth Detector said:
There are no radar screens for transatlantic flights. But again, it is also a stretch to think that lightening strikes at 39,000 feet and would take down a large aircraft; there are no events that support this scenario.
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If a lightning strike is what happened it almost certainly is not all that happened. The plane was flying into a severe storm, and my guess is that the storm that birthed the strike had more to do with the crash than the strike itself, although a lightning strike could definitely be the immediate cause as it caused certain systems (which may have been partially damaged already) to fail. This is all conjecture, but planes are not storm proof by any stretch of imagination.
 
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Has there ever been a record of a lightening strike causing the crash of a large airliner? Answer is no.

You may want to read your own articles to be more informed.

As stated by PILOTS, the chances are slim it was the cause. I also argue that at 39,000 feet which was the stated altitude, I am thinking it was higher, this airliner is very unlikely to fly INTO a storm; also taking into account that they have weather radar and would never deliberately fly into severe weather.

As I stated, I think it is something much more sinister, but my remarks are purely speculative just as all the other remarks are; I am having a hard time understanding your desperate efforts to suggest that my argument is no more valid than others.
 

How does ANYONE know this plane flew into a severe storm? Once the aircraft fly’s outside of land based radar, no one knows where or what kind of weather the aircraft may have experienced. I would argue that such an experienced crew would not willfully fly into such severe weather.

But that aside, what is with all the defensiveness? I stated that I am of the OPINION that it is something more sinister; like a bomb.

At this time none of us know; but based on my experience as a pilot and having read extensively on commercial aircraft disasters and accidents, this one just doesn't pass the sniff test for being weather related. I am not ruling out the fact that this is what could have happened, but a lightening strike causing a major systems failure; that is almost laughable if not implausible.
 

I don't think it has avoided the storm, since I read dangerous clouds can be up to 14km high (= much higher than the plane), and all of them can't be avoided

I don't think the lightning is the only cause of the crash, even if that's what the experts are saying right now in every newspaper, and even if lightnings have already caused the crash of several airliners (even if it is very rare: once in the USA in 1961, once in Germany during the 80's and once more in China in 2000) USATODAY.com

Indeed, I read once that airplanes crashes are rarely caused by a single event. We're sure that the electronic systems were damaged (probably by a lightning) since there were alerts (which if the proof that the plane has not exploded directly, and that it was not a terrorist attack).

If the plane flew into the dangerous zone, maybe it was also hit by hailstones, maybe there was a depressurization etc...something that, combined to damaged electronic systems, could have provoked a crash
 

Here's the basis of my theory; "We're sure that the electronic systems were damaged (probably by a lightning) since there were alerts.."

A massive decompression caused by an explosion somewhere within the aircraft at altitude would not cause the plane to disappear instantaneously and would indeed provide time for the systems to send an automated message out.

A massive decompression would explain why there were no communications from the crew after the automated message went out and there are no instances in modern aircraft where this would have occurred as a result of weather at altitude.

Now I just had another thought, but am not certain this can be done with the redundancy of systems, but this kind of massive decompression could also occur if someone deliberately were to open an emergency door and if it were close to the cockpit, it could disable the crew in a short instant and result in the loss of the aircraft.

Again, I am just speculating here like everyone else; but something definitely smells wrong here in my opinion.
 
Truth Detector said:
There are no radar screens for transatlantic flights. But again, it is also a stretch to think that lightening strikes at 39,000 feet and would take down a large aircraft; there are no events that support this scenario.
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Actually there is at least one known event of a lighting strike hitting an Airliner. I believe that there was a case of a Super Connie getting whacked by lighting over Arizona or New Mexico IN THE 1950's I think !!

here is one OVER MARYLAND "Pan Am Flight 214 December 8, 1963 near

The crash of Pan Am Flight 214 was registered in the Guinness Book of World Records (2005) as the "Worst Lightning Strike Death Toll". In 1971, LANSA Flight 508LANSA Flight 508
LANSA Flight 508 was a Lockheed Electra L-188A turboprop, registered OB-R-941, operated as a scheduled domestic passenger flight by Lineas A?reas Nacionales Sociedad Anonima , that crashed in a thunderstorm enroute from Lima, Peru to Pucallpa, Peru, on December 24, 1971, killing 91 people – all of its 6 crew and 86 of its 87 passengers....
was also brought down by a lightning strike, but has no mention in the Guinness Book of World Records, despite having more casualties (91 fatalities). "
 
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Oof, what a tragedy.


As for what might have happened, it's most probably a chain of events as is usually the case. This BBC article describes one possible scenario:

BBC NEWS | Europe | Mystery surrounding Air France flight

 
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independent_thinker2002 said:
I saw a show on Discovery Channel about this. Most planes can survive normal lightning strikes. But there is something called "sprite lighting" (I think I am remembering that correctly) that is much more powerful. That may be what happened here.
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yES, Sprite Lightning is casued when a Stewardress opens a bottle of Sprite too fast and that results in a sudden and sever electrical discharge that fries all of the electrical and electronic devices on board. Very bad stufff indeed !

Sorry that was not funny here is some truth = "When the lightning strikes, an imbalance of charge forms between the storm cloud and the air above it,” said Hans Nielsen, an atmospheric physicist at the University of Alaska and co-author of the new study. Nature’s way of evening things out, he explained, is a rapid discharge of electricity—a sprite—that can extend as much as 20 miles upward.

In the night sky, sprites can briefly outshine all other objects. “ "


Video Reveals 'Sprite' Lightning Secrets | LiveScience
 
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L188 and Constellations do not achieve the altitudes todays jets....what part of 39,000 feet did you not read.

The Pan Am 707 was in a landing hold pattern and as a result:

As a result of the crash of Flight 214, the Federal Aviation Administration ordered lightning discharge wicks to be installed on all commercial jets flying inside U.S. airspace.[5]

These other aircraft did not crash as a result of the lightening strikes either.

Originally Posted by Truth Detector
There are no radar screens for transatlantic flights. But again, it is also a stretch to think that lightening strikes at 39,000 feet and would take down a large aircraft; there are no events that support this scenario.
 
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Sprite lightning goes high up into the atmosphere too.
 
One thing is certain: 250 miles out to sea might as well be on the dark side of the moon for all the rescue efforts that could be made in a timely fashion.

A great tragedy, no matter what the cause.
 

Look, lightnings can strike aircrafts flying high and cause their loss:


[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LANSA_Flight_508]LANSA Flight 508 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

In fact, it seems that lightning can occur at any altitude, up to 90 miles high

Lightning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
BBC NEWS | Americas | Plane searchers spot ocean debris
A tragedy indeed.
 

I am well aware of the operating altitudes of various aircraft I just decided to disregard the altitude blip.

"In 1963, a Pan Am Boeing 707, on a flight from Baltimore to Philadelphia, crashed near Elkton, Md., after being struck by lightning. All 81 people on board died. The probable cause was listed as "lightning-induced ignition of the fuel/air mixture in the no. 1 reserve fuel tank with resultant explosive disintegration of the left outer wing and loss of control."

I will agree that in this 1963 case the 707 being on a short hop between Baltimore and Philly they were at short altitudes but there are more cases of lightning bringong down aircraft. The FAA files would have to be searched to find the operating altitudes when these happened. There are some fother first world countries that have good investigative agencies which would have info on cases not under the FAA investigation area.

At this point I will not rules out a lightning strike for the June 1 , 2009 French flyers !!

"
 

Debris confirms crash of Air France Flight 447 -- Newsday.com

What a shame.
 
WillRockwell said:
It sounds like it may have gone down over land. Jungle. The flight from Rio to Paris crosses a big piece of Brazil before it goes over the ocean.
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:doh

......
 
Another update; as information comes in, it appears that my initial suspicions may indeed have been correct.

Air France Had Threat Days Before Crash
By FEDERICO ESCHER and EMMA VANDORE
AP posted: 1 HOUR 31 MINUTES AGO

Meanwhile, ABC News reported that Air France received a bomb threat by phone related to a flight from Buenos Aires, Argentina, to Paris days before Air France Flight 447 departed on Sunday.

That May 27 flight was delayed in Buenos Aires while authorities searched the plane for 90 minutes. The passengers were not evacuated, no threatening materials were found, and the plane was released to take off for Paris, ABC said.

The crew made no distress call before the crash, but the plane's system sent an automatic message just before it disappeared, reporting lost cabin pressure and electrical failure.

Air France Crash Black Boxes
 

If a bomb, then who did it I wonder?
 
I heard on the radio that a flame-out induced by heavy rain may also be a possibility. However, given these aircraft have multiple engines it's hard to believe both engines would fail, but I'm not an expert on engines.

Things With Wings

http://www.ntsb.gov/recs/letters/1998/A98_65_66.pdf

Crash of Southern Airways Flight 242: Unexpected Severe Weather Conditions Downed a DC-9 Airplane | Suite101.com
 
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bhkad said:
:doh

......
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Actually they fly a little inland sort of hug the coast in a few places yet when over or near land they are within civilian radar range so if they had gone down over land chances are that they may have been on a radar read when that heppend. At the tip of Brazil they turn towards Africa and then turn generally North and cross over near the Azores toward Paris. The coast of Brazil is generally more populated than the interior so with their path and radar the crash site would have been most likely evident.
 
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American said:
I heard on the radio that a flame-out induced by heavy rain may also be a possibility. However, given these aircraft have multiple engines it's hard to believe both engines would fail, but I'm not an expert on engines.

Things With Wings
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However, when aircraft like these encounter such rain they turn on what I think is called, continuous ignition, to counter this which ensures the engines get re-ignited if such an event occurs. In addition, if you are at 39,000 feet, or 35,000, the altitudes reported keep changing, you have a LOT of time to glide and re-start the engines.

This type of event does not lead to the catastrophic events that apparently destroyed this aircraft.
 
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