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After 5 years, I decided to change my political affiliation

Right. And they voted their principles. And lost, and suffer the consequences of the majority, deservedly so according to you. Too 'original sinny' for my liking thank you.
.sure they did---agree, but they likely did little else but vote. How much do they work for & help the candidate they like???? Do they ever run for office themselves??

They/we get what we deserve . Hell, the majority of voters don't even know WHO is running in most state and local elections. Give me a break.
 
.sure they did---agree, but they likely did little else but vote. How much do they work for & help the candidate they like???? Do they ever run for office themselves??
That's a mighty big assumption. And moving the goalposts. First blame the people that don't vote out of indecision, rebellion or principle. When that doesn't work blame the people that did vote the right way because they just didn't do enough. Pft.

They/we get what we deserve . Hell, the majority of voters don't even know WHO is running in most state and local elections. Give me a break.
Misery loves company. I love company not misery.
 
That's a mighty big assumption. And moving the goalposts. First blame the people that don't vote out of indecision, rebellion or principle. When that doesn't work blame the people that did vote the right way because they just didn't do enough. Pft.
it comes down to taking the time and doing homework...........there is ALWAYS a better candidate. And we have the power, if we use it, to put better people on the ballot......no "assumption" at all......................I work my butt off in elections, and as you likely know, 99% of the people can't be bothered, or have a poor/misinformed attitude...... In a democracy it is the PEOPLE who are responsible for their government
Misery loves company. I love company not misery.
???????
 
I didn't say living document. Which changes did you not like? Amendment XIII? Amendment XIV?

The only bad amendment was the one that was itself amended back out.
I'll say "living document", just as the framers intended, because most people who use that term simply have no idea what that means. Amendment is definitely part of that, but, as with most of my discussion earlier, the principles are the point, not the precise words - thus, for example, telephone conversations, electronic communications and computer records fall under the ambit of the Fourth Amendment's protection, even though the Constitution was not amended to include them. I don't want to derail this fine thread, so I'll leave it at that. There are a number of other threads discussing these topics.
 
When you figure that out, maybe you'll figure out the rest. I can't give you the answers, you have to find them as we all do.
 
Yes, agree................no one said it was going to be easy fulfilling your civic responsibility to be informed. As I said, "we get what deserve"

Bull. They don't MAKE the time because it is not a priority, thus = we get what we deserve.....

Not true.......excuses don't cut it................we, ultimately control who is on the ballot
No, the candidates do.
rarely, but in national elections, it can happen...........................but it is still up to us. Simply "voting" is the LEAST a responsible citizen can do......
I'll leave this discussion, which we vigorously disagree on, with only this specific comment: it is not rare at all, but more common than majority rule. In most local elections a plurality candidate wins. That is particularly true in non-partisan and elections with third party candidates. It's a matter of math. Donald Trump didn't get the majority of votes in either victory.
 
I know this thread is about DP descriptions, but the larger point, I think, is what is the point of "party" affiliation? What do we gain by adopting labels?

Labels are shorthand - they allow one to give a general sense of "where one stands", politically, socially, philosophically. But they get there by leaving out details. And therein lies the danger. The missing parts invite others to "fill in the blanks" and ignore nuance.

If I say, "I'm conservative" - what does that mean? What I intend and what a reader thinks can be radically different. That's even more problematic when someone else applies the label, particularly when that is done sloppily, dishonestly or even maliciously.

I think that is the core of the problem with the "orientation" matrix we apply on DP. Maybe my "other" is a cop out, but there aren't any labels I want to be limited to. I identify as an "Eco-social marketeer", meaning leveraging market economics to accomplish social equality and environmental protection. But even that "label" has been coopted by marketers using social responsibility as a marketing gimmick.

It's hard, anymore, to communicate our positions when the meaning of those words changes so fluidily.
 
I know this thread is about DP descriptions, but the larger point, I think, is what is the point of "party" affiliation? What do we gain by adopting labels?
We gain unity across otherwise disparate groups based on race, religion, ethnicity, income, etc.

Labels are shorthand - they allow one to give a general sense of "where one stands", politically, socially, philosophically. But they get there by leaving out details. And therein lies the danger. The missing parts invite others to "fill in the blanks" and ignore nuance.
They do that, but they create hegemony of principles, where people with similar guiding ideals can come together to enact greater change despite differences that might otherwise put them as adversarial.

If I say, "I'm conservative" - what does that mean? What I intend and what a reader thinks can be radically different. That's even more problematic when someone else applies the label, particularly when that is done sloppily, dishonestly or even maliciously.
It has to be mushy like that to "widen the tent" as it were, and bring in more people.

I think that is the core of the problem with the "orientation" matrix we apply on DP. Maybe my "other" is a cop out, but there aren't any labels I want to be limited to. I identify as an "Eco-social marketeer", meaning leveraging market economics to accomplish social equality and environmental protection. But even that "label" has been coopted by marketers using social responsibility as a marketing gimmick.
It has become ludicrous to the extreme. Now instead of seeing the other party of coming together minds as equals with some disagreements but both with the well being of all and the country at the top of the list, we see them now as an enemy, who must be destroyed lest they destroy us first, the country attacking the country instead of extolling it's virtues.

It's hard, anymore, to communicate our positions when the meaning of those words changes so fluidily.
It sure is. I don't stop trying. People just need to take a step back, remind themselves of the above and we are all Americans, tone down the rhetoric/pump the brakes/pull the pendulum instead of pushing. That is America First, not where we manufacture doodads or pointing at our neighbor as our enemy or the enemy of our country.
 
.sure they did---agree, but they likely did little else but vote. How much do they work for & help the candidate they like???? Do they ever run for office themselves??

They/we get what we deserve . Hell, the majority of voters don't even know WHO is running in most state and local elections. Give me a break.
Why limit not knowing the candidates to most state and local elections? For instance, do you know the names and qualifications for all 24 official candidates running for President in the 2024 election? Excluding write in votes. Until very recently I certainly did not.
 
Why limit not knowing the candidates to most state and local elections? For instance, do you know the names and qualifications for all 24 official candidates running for President in the 2024 election? Excluding write in votes. Until very recently I certainly did not.
Only one of the two major candidates has a chance of winning------------vote for the most qualified....
 
Only one of the two major candidates has a chance of winning------------vote for the most qualified....

As long as everyone follows that thought, there will never be but two candidates with a chance of winning. They like it like that, too.
 
As long as everyone follows that thought, there will never be but two candidates with a chance of winning. They like it like that, too.
That's the idea. Use kindness, compassion, curiosity, and communication to shake people out of the binary cycle stupor. Enough overgeneralizations. We are all way more interesting than we give each other credit for and are more than magas and libtards. Mostly.
 
I am anti-Republican, but I am no longer a lay-up vote for Democrats.
 
I am anti-Republican, but I am no longer a lay-up vote for Democrats.
Hard to look at the whole and not feel that way. That's why I'm trying one at a time.
 
Hard to look at the whole and not feel that way. That's why I'm trying one at a time.

I've never been under any sort of illusion that the Democrats were saviors. I just thought they were markedly better than Republicans, but global politics - and indeed, global civilization - are at an inflection point. To me, it's like, I was hoping there was a political party that was up for this moment, and I'm just not seeing it. I have always been among those who have lectured others about the ills of not voting or 'wasting a vote', but at this point, I think we're racing to the bottom. I'm speaking strictly as an American and in the context of American politics. Other countries have healthier democracies.
 
Hard to look at the whole and not feel that way. That's why I'm trying one at a time.
Anyone associating with the current party is too dangerous to vote for.
 
Anyone associating with the current party is too dangerous to vote for.
That's possible. Not the kind of shade I want to throw in this thread though. I understand the vehemence behind the sentiment. I have made my thoughts clear I think on what I think is best for the country, and that can be boiled down simply to how the Administration treats the constitution and the branches of government. The short answer is, not respectfully. So they need to go. And anyone from any party that follows with the same mind. Repair not pillage.
 
Only one of the two major candidates has a chance of winning------------vote for the most qualified....
At any contest level what makes a major candidate?

Name recognition, organization/party (financial) support, media exposure, endorsements; all of which are lopsidedly provided through our two major parties or by local political cliques. A new wrinkle appears to be the few independents and Democratic socialists who attach themselves to the Democratic Party.
 
That's the idea. Use kindness, compassion, curiosity, and communication to shake people out of the binary cycle stupor. Enough overgeneralizations. We are all way more interesting than we give each other credit for and are more than magas and libtards. Mostly.
My younger son and I love playing Magic together, but he's far more intelligent and engaged about it that I am, so he plays a lot online. He gets so frustrated, though, because the format and interactions become so toxic.

I have tried, on multiple occasions, to start threads discussing positive things about philosophy, or politics, or the Constitution, and American aspirations. Like you, I prefer "kindness, compassion, curiosity, and communication". I try to be welcoming and respectful. I put a lot of thought into openers.

But, invariably, one of two things happens: no one else participates (I hate talking to myself); or the thread is immediately inundated with off-topic vitriol. The culprits are very often the same players, some of whom follow me around, and most of us know who they are. They make DP a very toxic environment. And my frustration with the dreck and toxicity is making me less sympathetic and reactive. This is especially true of one particular class of posters who follow the same playbook, repeat the same BS in every thread, and who relish disruption.

In their absence (glory to the Loft), good conversations and deep discussion of thorny topics can occur, especially when coming from very different viewpoints. That is the fundamental basis of democracy and debate, as well as science and philosophy. We're losing that as a society.
 
Can always try again. Lots of people are tiring of the din. Shouting isn't the only way to be heard. Sometimes it only takes a shared interest. I have seen the most partisan among us slap shoulders over that before remembering and putting on the masks again.
 
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