Abundance: Ezra Klein vs. Sam Seder (9 Viewers)

[Dans La Lune]

I don't think Ezra was able to fully explain the purpose of Abundance. We know right-leaning Dems love it, big money is gravitating towards it, the focus of Abundance is largely regulation / government. And, it seeks to be the alternative to progressivism. I am still trying to find determine how it differs from traditional neoliberalism. Which is basically: 'Let the free market chefs cook in the kitchen...'

I think Sam won this discussion pretty convincingly. Ezra started dropping F-bombs as his frustration increased.

 

[Greenbeard]

If “it shouldn’t take two decades to build a train” is an alternative to progressivism, progressivism can’t really claim the mantle of FDR anymore.

 

[Dans La Lune]

'If you want to know who your rulers are, look to those you are unable to regulate....'

 

[Dans La Lune]

If “it shouldn’t take two decades to build a train” is an alternative to progressivism, progressivism can’t really claim the mantle of FDR anymore.

Is progressivism the reason it takes two decades to build a train? Who has been in charge for the past 40 years?

 

[Greenbeard]

Is progressivism the reason it takes two decades to build a train?

You’re the one that positioned progressivism in opposition to the concept, you tell me.

I’m not the one that claimed being able to do stuff and have nice things is “neoliberalism.”

 

[Dans La Lune]

You’re the one that positioned progressivism in opposition to the concept, you tell me.

No, I have positioned that Abundance is repackaged neoliberalism, which has been in charge of these issues for... how many decades? What has been rolled back? Progressivism.

Abundance needs to prove that it's any different than what we currently have, since it is offering to be the alternative to progressivism for Democrats.

I’m not the one that claimed being able to do stuff and have nice things is “neoliberalism.”

I don't recall saying anything like that. Who are you referring to?

 

[aociswundumho]

Is progressivism the reason it takes two decades to build a train?

YES.

I’m not the one that claimed being able to do stuff and have nice things is “neoliberalism.”

Well it's certainly not consistent with any left wing ideology, that's for sure.

Anyway, for those interested I found a shorter article on the book here:

Zero-sum politics is destroying America. We can build a way out.

The bipartisan case for abundance, briefly explained.

www.vox.com

Thompson and Klein are self-identified liberals, and their book is mainly meant to diagnose what they see has gone wrong with Democratic governance in recent decades, as progressives have consciously adopted policies that aim to put limits on growth. They point to the examples of Democratic cities like San Francisco or New York, where regulations have made it virtually impossible to build new living spaces, putting the cost of housing out of reach for more and more people.

They've done exactly the same thing to healthcare as well.

 

[aociswundumho]

If “it shouldn’t take two decades to build a train” is an alternative to progressivism, progressivism can’t really claim the mantle of FDR anymore.

If you defend a system where it takes 20 years to build a train, then you don’t value what FDR did, you value the red tape that would’ve stopped him. Modern progressives want more regulation, not less, especially since Gaia worship has become a big part of this despicable ideology.

 

[Greenbeard]

If you defend a system where it takes 20 years to build a train, then you don’t value what FDR did, you value the red tape that would’ve stopped him. Modern progressives want more regulation, not less, especially since Gaia worship has become a big part of this despicable ideology.

Given their reaction to Abundance, apparently so.

 

[aociswundumho]

I am still trying to find determine how it differs from traditional neoliberalism.

I didn't read the book, but I watched a bunch of his videos. He's pushing a form of supply-side economics. Nobody on the left is going to listen to him.

 

[Questerr]

YES.



Well it's certainly not consistent with any left wing ideology, that's for sure.

Anyway, for those interested I found a shorter article on the book here:

Zero-sum politics is destroying America. We can build a way out.

The bipartisan case for abundance, briefly explained.

www.vox.com

They've done exactly the same thing to healthcare as well.

Progressives haven’t had any significant power in the US since the 40’s. Neo-liberal capitalism is why it takes 20 years to build a train. Gotta make sure every executive involved in the process gets maximized profits.

 

[Felis Leo]

If “it shouldn’t take two decades to build a train” is an alternative to progressivism, progressivism can’t really claim the mantle of FDR anymore.

The problem isn't progressivism. It is the profit-motive. Some special interest wanting to wet their beak and not letting projects proceed until they get their cut. Someone wanting to preserve their real estate value, and stopping infrastructure projects and low income housing from being built. And these moneyed interests have special access to the levers of power that allow them to grind these projects to a halt.

From everything I understand, France and Japan have very strict regulations regarding building. And yet France is able to build incredible civil infrastructure projects like suspension bridges in a year or two where we take a decade or two, and Japan is able to build massive amounts of affordable housing for all income brackets in the heart of their busiest cities like Tokyo where we take years to build even luxury condominiums.

No, the answer is not "de-regulation." It is identifying how the profit-motive is strangling development, and then find a method to go around it. Perhaps it is to end bidding for state infrastructure projects, such as hiring construction workers, contractors and engineers as permanent federal, state and local employees, to disallow anyone from interfering with state projects, and to use Imminent Domain far more liberally.