Where do you get the anti-blind faith thing?
I think it means what it says, obviously using hyperbole, and typical Jewish poetic language, it means what it seams to mean, i.e. if you have faith you can accomplish things that seamed impossible to you before, remember it was in the context of casting out a deamon, the apostles couldn't do it, he could, and he credited faith.
Mischaracterizing scientific theories doesn't make you look good.
How do you think your partisan hackery in mischaracterizing conservatives makes you look?
19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?”
20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief;
19 Then the students came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cure?”
20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief (in your own skills);
I believe that verse is literal.
Well, that's what I meant. Let's read it with some translation to contemporary world, shall we?
So, you see, it's entirely "standart" situation to be found in any medical school.We have a professor (a professional) and his students (disciples) trying to cure someone. "Why couldn't we do it?". "Because you didn't know exactly what you were doing. When you learn how and be sure what you do then you will have confidence (faith) in your own work". eace
But in that particular scenario, they were referring to exorcism, not standard medical practice.
Luke, by profession was a physician....therefore, he wouldn't have been lacking in faith in his skills as a physician.
The apostles - though they believe Jesus - were lacking in faith in Him! The only time their faith soared to greatness was when Jesus had risen from the dead and appeared to them. The lack of faith referred to in that verse is faith in Jesus Christ.
John 20
Seeing and Believing
24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”
So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”
26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” 27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas,[d] because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
That You May Believe
30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
eace
OK, tell me one person that has moved a mountain with his fate, please.
Red Sea was parted in Exodus, Christ calmed the seas, turned water into wine, and miraculously fed the multitudes. I have no doubt a righteous person with the spirit of God guiding them and who has real priesthood authority, if the spirit guides them to say mountain move hence, it would happen.
The apostles - though they believe Jesus - were lacking in faith in Him!eace
Nope, I insist on taking him literally. My faith should give me telekinesis.
Well, there is, generally speaking, two kinds of faith - faith as confidence (you could call it professionalism, I guess) and blind faith (believe everything you are told from an authority). I don't think Jesus encouraged option 2, so it leaves option 1.Otherwise Jesus would be just another "wishful thinker", which I believe He is not.
That only proves my point, does it not?It's very hard to have absolute certainty, especially on metaphysical issues.
If the direct students of Jesus lacked faith and had doubts, what can be expected from the common man?
Matthew 17:20 He replied, "Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."
We all know Jesus loved talking parables.
Since He allegedly knew that moving mountains is beyond human powers (moreover in an age when excavators and big trucks didn't exist), what was the meaning of those words above?
I say it was an anti-blind fate argument.
What do you think?
Canell
Even moving mountains? OK, so I agree you could move a mountain but it would take massive earthquakes and geological changes to accomplish that. Or just wait 100 million years. In that regard, yes, it is possible to move mountains.
Other than that, those words of Jesus don't literally make sense.
Well, there is, generally speaking, two kinds of faith - faith as confidence (you could call it professionalism, I guess) and blind faith (believe everything you are told from an authority). I don't think Jesus encouraged option 2, so it leaves option 1. Otherwise Jesus would be just another "wishful thinker", which I believe He is not.
Canell
19 Then the students came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cure?”
20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief (in your own skills);
So, you see, it's entirely "standart" situation to be found in any medical school. We have a professor (a professional) and his students (disciples) trying to cure someone. "Why couldn't we do it?". "Because you didn't know exactly what you were doing. When you learn how and be sure what you do then you will have confidence (faith) in your own work".
That includes doing miracles. In fact some of his apostles were able to raise the dead in Acts!
John 14
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
Canell
That only proves my point, does it not? It's very hard to have absolute certainty, especially on metaphysical issues.
If the direct students of Jesus lacked faith and had doubts, what can be expected from the common man?
Thus, we have to try to cling to God no matter what - to keep Jesus in our hearts. You know the drill..."Put on the armour of God."Matthew 16
Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection
21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."
Or that it is entirely natural for humans to be in doubt.
Red Sea was parted in Exodus, Christ calmed the seas, turned water into wine, and miraculously fed the multitudes. I have no doubt a righteous person with the spirit of God guiding them and who has real priesthood authority, if the spirit guides them to say mountain move hence, it would happen.
Yes, as stated before I take it literally. As I take literally that the Red Sea was actually parted, that Jesus actually turned water into wine, that He actually calmed the seas, that He actually walked on the water, and miraculously fed the multitudes. I do think there are areas in the Bible that have been translated incorrectly, and that there are some things that are metaphors. But I believe the verse where Christs states with faith you can move mountains can be taken literal. And I am not worried what you or anyone else thinkseace
You have to understand nature of God. I believe our spirits are made up of matter that can be described as living light. For it to be eternal it would have to be quickened until the mass is in all infinite space. So a mortal spirit/intelligence that has broken laws of eternal nature, and has fallen and sowed the seeds of death, all of us the offspring of deity here on earth, at it's zenith can what, see something like 8 moves ahead in a chess game? An eternal intelligence that is in all infinite space can discern every speck of sand in an infinite number of planets in an infinite number of universes and is outside of time, no beginning or end. So while you may not believe such things as walking on water or moving mountains by a word can be done, to such a being those things likely are nothing.
How does this possibly explain how to read a text? We're reading a text. So why take it literally if it's sense works metaphorically?
I believe you are suppose to read the scriptures with the spirit. LDS also have living prophets and additional scriptures to aid in discerning the scriptures. In my view, that is the only way to know truth. Go to the source. Men have been "interpreting" for years and all we have is thousands of different sects.
I really do not care. I am not trying to win a debate. I don't want to be like those men always arguing and searching for truth and never finding it by using every means but the only way to actually know the truth which is doing what someone like Joseph Smith did, humbly ask God. If those miracles really happened how can you know for sure unless God reveals it to an individual? What physical proof can there possibly be to convince you otherwise? So debating this is meaningless.
I really do not care. I am not trying to win a debate. I don't want to be like those men always arguing and searching for truth and never finding it by using every means but the only way to actually know the truth which is doing what someone like Joseph Smith did, humbly ask God. If those miracles really happened how can you know for sure unless God reveals it to an individual? What physical proof can there possibly be to convince you otherwise? So debating this is meaningless.
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