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A wind farm is ejected from Indian Country in Oklahoma

OMG, it's unbelievable to even imagine. After driving through so many states of nothing but those, it started to haunt me imagining how they would ever be disposed of. The entire situation haunted me. Seeing what they have done to so much of the land in this country now and imagining how they'd ever be able to get rid of them. They are simply enormous in size. I had no idea that was going on to that extent - until that long road trip across the whole country. It shocked me. It's the stuff nightmares are made of.
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
I hope the appeal fails and the land is restored to its "pre-trespass" conditions.

Several years ago, we decided it was time to move and since we are retired, we could pretty much choose anywhere in the country. So, in our search, we drove through nearly the entire nation to look at places our google searches had generated interest in. It had been a long time since we had taken any long road trips. We were simply stunned and appalled at what these endless miles of wind farms had done to enormous swaths of this country. I became sad and depressed at seeing these endless miles of these monsters. From "sea to shining sea", the "amber waves of grain" and the "fruited plain" had become a thing of the past, taken over by these massive monsters (everywhere!!!). One thing that really began to bother me was how the massive structures could possibly be disposed of as they failed, fell over, or weren't performing any worthwhile function anymore. Each one is enormous.
They are dismantled with a large (600ton )crawler crane and recycled/repurposed. Its about a 2 week process per wind generator. They are bolted together, so undo the bolts and they come apart in large pieces.


2 THINGS.

1-I'd bet that even if that land were pristine, you couldnt find it on a map and have never stepped foot within 100miles of it.
2-You arent 'stopping' mining...you are increasing it, and you are supporting slave and child labor to boot, WHILE using fossil fuel resources to mine for it, WHILE using fossil fuel resources to transport it, WHILE you are making the Chinese rich as they burn fossil fuels to refine and manufacture it AND they use fossil fuels to transport it to the locations that use fossil fuel resources to host, house, and sell the 'green' energy resources that are then again transported BY fossil fuel resources and installed USING fossil fuel resources......to 'save' the climate by producing energy less efficiently than fossil fuel run power generation.
MAGA to English subtitles, please.
 
in our search, we drove through nearly the entire nation to look at places our google searches had generated interest in. It had been a long time since we had taken any long road trips. We were simply stunned and appalled at what these endless miles of wind farms had done to enormous swaths of this country. I became sad and depressed at seeing these endless miles of these monsters. From "sea to shining sea", the "amber waves of grain" and the "fruited plain" had become a thing of the past, taken over by these massive monsters (everywhere!!!). One thing that really began to bother me was how the massive structures could possibly be disposed of as they failed, fell over, or weren't performing any worthwhile function anymore. Each one is enormous.
Remember the good old days of scenic coal mines?

Giant heaps of beautiful tailings?

Black streams?

Ah, the good old days.
 
I hope the appeal fails and the land is restored to its "pre-trespass" conditions.

Several years ago, we decided it was time to move and since we are retired, we could pretty much choose anywhere in the country. So, in our search, we drove through nearly the entire nation to look at places our google searches had generated interest in. It had been a long time since we had taken any long road trips. We were simply stunned and appalled at what these endless miles of wind farms had done to enormous swaths of this country. I became sad and depressed at seeing these endless miles of these monsters. From "sea to shining sea", the "amber waves of grain" and the "fruited plain" had become a thing of the past, taken over by these massive monsters (everywhere!!!). One thing that really began to bother me was how the massive structures could possibly be disposed of as they failed, fell over, or weren't performing any worthwhile function anymore. Each one is enormous.

If you think thats bad, go check out an area thats been fracked.
 
2 THINGS.

1-I'd bet that even if that land were pristine, you couldnt find it on a map and have never stepped foot within 100miles of it.
2-You arent 'stopping' mining...you are increasing it, and you are supporting slave and child labor to boot, WHILE using fossil fuel resources to mine for it, WHILE using fossil fuel resources to transport it, WHILE you are making the Chinese rich as they burn fossil fuels to refine and manufacture it AND they use fossil fuels to transport it to the locations that use fossil fuel resources to host, house, and sell the 'green' energy resources that are then again transported BY fossil fuel resources and installed USING fossil fuel resources......to 'save' the climate by producing energy less efficiently than fossil fuel run power generation.
You wrong in your comparisons.

Hint: compare the amount of raw materials from mining needed to build wind farms to the amount of mining needed to power a single large coal fired power plant for just one day. A single large power plant will burn about 12,000 metric tons of coal in just one day.

So when you see a wind farm, understand that a single coal power plant burns more raw materials in day than went into manufacturing all those wind mills.

Even if climate wasn't a concern at all, we still should get off of coal. Coal mining alone does more environmental destruction in any given year than all other forms of energy generation combined do in a century.
 
You wrong in your comparisons.

Hint: compare the amount of raw materials from mining needed to build wind farms to the amount of mining needed to power a single large coal fired power plant for just one day. A single large power plant will burn about 12,000 metric tons of coal in just one day.

So when you see a wind farm, understand that a single coal power plant burns more raw materials in day than went into manufacturing all those wind mills.

Even if climate wasn't a concern at all, we still should get off of coal. Coal mining alone does more environmental destruction in any given year than all other forms of energy generation combined do in a century.
I'm not wrong and its tragic that you so eagerly just ignore the fact that we strip mine the planet to gain those fossil resources needed to make 'green' energy. And that you use coal in your comparisons and not the cleaner energy fuel sources that have replaced coal over the years is also very telling.

Regardless...lets have a direct answer. Will there EVER be a day when a major metropolis like NYC or LA will be able to be run exclusively on green energy...day and night? And if you believe that is possible, WHEN? And if not now, then doesnt it feel pretty silly demonizing energy sources you NEED right now?
 
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Our need for energy impacts our world one way or another. One can take the path of what may not be aesthetically pleasing or others which are more destructive to the environment and less aesthetically pleasing.

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Because pumpjacks are so much more aesthetically appealing than those wind turbines.
 
Wind farms will result in a bunch of those. Much of the wind is being harvested in New Mexico, and the electricity transmitted to California.

New transmission lines. New pipelines. Energy of any kind requires additional infrastructure. It's not that uncommon to find oil/natural gas using renewable energy to generate production. There's a degree of interdependence between different types of energy, which is why I'm skeptical that we're ever going to replace fossil fuels. Can we create a world in which fossil fuel use plateaus and perhaps even gradually declines while maintaining economic growth? Maybe...by the year 2050 or something. But my base case is that something is going to have to give, and it's likely going to mean that a whole lot of the earth's population, including those in developed, wealthier countries (especially us, in fact), are going to have to get used to a much humbler lifestyle. No politician in a democratic society can ever come out and say this, of course.
 
Nothing wrong with wind farms but it appears once again someone wasn't honest with the Native Americans.

I don't buy the crap about wind turbines killing lots of birds. I've never seen any dead birds around them. Never. And there is virtually no noise either. And the average life span is 20 years with maintenance about ever 6 months. That's a good run for what they produce.
 
New transmission lines. New pipelines. Energy of any kind requires additional infrastructure. It's not that uncommon to find oil/natural gas using renewable energy to generate production. There's a degree of interdependence between different types of energy, which is why I'm skeptical that we're ever going to replace fossil fuels. Can we create a world in which fossil fuel use plateaus and perhaps even gradually declines while maintaining economic growth? Maybe...by the year 2050 or something. But my base case is that something is going to have to give, and it's likely going to mean that a whole lot of the earth's population, including those in developed, wealthier countries (especially us, in fact), are going to have to get used to a much humbler lifestyle. No politician in a democratic society can ever come out and say this, of course.
Petroleum replaced slavery.
 
Petroleum replaced slavery.

Not really. The decline of slavery in the Americas was more due to moral and political forces than the energy revolution and mechanization. In fact mechanization (the cotton gin) actually helped to perpetuate slavery in the South. Even with chattel slavery's decline, you still have exploitation and forced labor under harsh conditions today.
 
Not really. The decline of slavery in the Americas was more due to moral and political forces than the energy revolution and mechanization. In fact mechanization (the cotton gin) actually helped to perpetuate slavery in the South. Even with chattel slavery's decline, you still have exploitation and forced labor under harsh conditions today.
The cotton gin promoted slavery, but the MacCormack Combine Reaper made slavery obsolete in the 1880s. Had it been invented 50 years earlier, there might not have Been a Civil War.
 
The cotton gin promoted slavery, but the MacCormack Combine Reaper made slavery obsolete in the 1880s. Had it been invented 50 years earlier, there might not have Been a Civil War.

Slavery ain't exactly obsolete, even today; it's just morally repugnant. I suppose we can get into the semantics of what constitutes slavery. Forced labor has various forms or flavors.
 
Slavery ain't exactly obsolete, even today; it's just morally repugnant. I suppose we can get into the semantics of what constitutes slavery. Forced labor has various forms or flavors.
And; except for sexual slavery, it tends to be more common in countries that are Not highly industrialized. The choice is between Nasty Old Petroleum, and slavery.
 
I'm sure you think that the tar sands of Alberta and the removed mountaintops for coal mining are beautiful.

I'm sure @gbg3 also appreciates the beauty of the urban sprawl, stroads, acres and acres of parking lots and mostly vacant strip malls. :sick:🤮

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I would rather build solar power rather than wind power. I have built a total of 20 acres in western North Carolina, divided between 4 facilities. Additionally all four are grazed by goats and other livestock. All of this was former agricultural acreage that could be returned to that usage in the future, if the facilities are not replaced at the end of their lifespan.

At least solar power doesn't shred our avian friends. 😄

The MAGAts are already virtue signaling their newfound ornithophilia with their tirades over solar killing the birds (not that they ever cared about the environmental effects of fossil fuels).

 
I hope the appeal fails and the land is restored to its "pre-trespass" conditions.

Several years ago, we decided it was time to move and since we are retired, we could pretty much choose anywhere in the country. So, in our search, we drove through nearly the entire nation to look at places our google searches had generated interest in. It had been a long time since we had taken any long road trips. We were simply stunned and appalled at what these endless miles of wind farms had done to enormous swaths of this country. I became sad and depressed at seeing these endless miles of these monsters. From "sea to shining sea", the "amber waves of grain" and the "fruited plain" had become a thing of the past, taken over by these massive monsters (everywhere!!!). One thing that really began to bother me was how the massive structures could possibly be disposed of as they failed, fell over, or weren't performing any worthwhile function anymore. Each one is enormous.
Be sad all you want but much of Oklahoma welcomed the wind farms. Depending on the study about 1/3 of our electricity is wind generated. I suppose if you were in Holland you'd have a sad over all the windmills used to pump water out and keep the farmland dry.... :unsure:
Now there is a bit more to this- the eastern 1/3 of Oklahoma has won tribal sovereignty over state courts. The Civilized tribes were never opened up to the Homestead act and now want to be treated as a nation within a nation. Gov Stitt (part Cherokee) has been fighting with the Eastern Tribes over the court system. He can be an ass, but it boils down to who gets the final say in court. Back before the rise of Native Casinos white folks were buying Native land, some tribes lost over 2/3rds of their initial allotments to white folks. Now fueled by casino money the tribes are pushing back. This is weird but more about respecting the Tribes than anything else.... ✌️
 
the tribes are pushing back. This is weird but more about respecting the Tribes than anything else.... ✌️

Which actually was the initial point of this whole thread, before it degenerated into a tit for tat over environmentalism

😄
 
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