- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 133,429
- Reaction score
- 43,241
- Location
- Miami
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Independent
Global net. Citation.
Permafrost melts and the land becomes arable. There is a net gain of agricultural land. Both Alaska and Canada have been enjoying an agricultural boom for the last couple of decades.
Because you tell me that the removal of vast amounts of food from the world's market will not be harmful for poor people despite your own information saying it does but then making excuses that it could be worse.
So it could be worse. Yeah, and? Million of people die due this. You spread the message that we should panic even more. More deaths from Western Guilt complex. Don't worry you will never see those who starve due to it.
You might see those who have crossed many very dangerous hazards to get from the lands of eternal hunger to the lands where you can live out of the bins and never starve though.
Dude, I do not want to see food price rise. And I do not want to see poor people harmed.
I never said that we should panic more. All I said was that we should care and be more careful. Nothing's wrong with using alternative energy for a while.
Permafrost melts and the land becomes arable. There is a net gain of agricultural land. Both Alaska and Canada have been enjoying an agricultural boom for the last couple of decades.
First, it is completely ludicrous to compare Earth to any other planet. Much less one that has 98% carbon dioxide, has no nitrogen or oxygen, atmospheric pressure than is 90 times Earth at sea level, has a retrograde orbit, and is 25,717,977 miles closer to the sun than Earth. One would have to be monumentally stupid to even consider comparing Venus to Earth.
Venus has no molecular oxygen in its atmosphere. All the oxygen on Venus is chemically bound. So don't play that moronic semantics game with me.Ummm....do you know CO2 is one carbon atom and two oxygen atoms?
No, actually, it is not. It is actually a deliberate lie, well beyond willful ignorance, to state that Venus is anything even remotely like Earth.It's ridiculous to say it doesn't have oxygen.
None of which has anything to do with Venus.Additionally, the surface of the Earth is 75% water; H2O. All life on Earth is carbon-based. Petroleum is organic and is composed of hydrocarbons.
Actually, it is acid rain that proves man-made CO2 cannot be effecting the global climate. Acid rain is the result of human pollution being washed from the troposphere. Since CO2 is heavier that the surrounding air, it never reaches the stratosphere and gets completely washed out of the atmosphere within 10 to 14 days, typically in the form of acid rain.Don't you remember the acid rain from US factories or when the Hudson river caught fire (and it wasn't the only one)? It's all a matter of chemistry. Did you know the Earth wasn't always with the current atmospheric composition...unless you think God created it like this 6000 years ago.
STATES ARE RATED IN ACID RAIN STUDY - The New York Times
[url=https://www.csmonitor.com/1985/0312/dclimate.html]Why Earth was a hothouse 100 million years ago. Geography, CO2 levels may explain prehistoric swelter - CSMonitor.com
Plankton make the Earth's first breathable atmosphere | Earth | EarthSky
About 500 million years ago, the Earth, for the first time, attained an atmosphere that we would consider breathable. A perfect storm of conditions allowed photosynthetic plankton to release large amounts of oxygen into the atmosphere. Evidence of this event was found in the chemical composition of 500-million-year-old rocks by Matthew Saltzman of Ohio State University and his colleagues, and reported in the February 21 edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science.
Today, the atmosphere holds about 21 per cent oxygen. Over the Earth’s 4.6 billion year history, oxygen did not appear in the atmosphere until perhaps about 2.5 billion years ago. Since then, oxygen levels have fluctuated in tandem with global geological and biological events, such as mass extinctions.
It's foolish to think the Earth's atmosphere can't return to one from 600-700 million years ago.
Incorrect. That would be both the sane and educated position to take. Earth can never again have the atmosphere it once had. It will always be something different.Actually, it is moronic to think that Earth's atmosphere could ever revert back to where it was
Then you can answer these questions;
How much sea level rise (assuming that is the big problem) do they think is going to happen and what amount of that is due to globalwarming?
How much is their total budget on sea defenses? What height are those defenses?
Just exactly what should the temperature of the earth be? Even if we could control it who gets to decide.
Additionally if the earth was a lot warmer, there would be more food for people. The vast amount of land mass in is in the northern hemisphere. If the earth was warmer, northern Canada, Greenland, and all of northern Asia could be farmed for food.
correct. Now you seem to have a glimmering of understanding.Venus has no molecular oxygen in its atmosphere. All the oxygen on Venus is chemically bound....
- They're expecting sea level to rise between 14 and 26 inches from 1992 mean levels. The study's focus was addressing sea level rise to assist in planning, and not a study on the breakdown of contributors to the sea level rise. The data they're using is a median of the IPCC AR5, USACE, and NOAA models of projected sea rise.
- I don't know how much of Miami's budget is dedicated to sea level rise, but they approved a $400 million dollar bond to help some of the efforts against sea level rise. I'm sure that's insufficient given the estimates for other cities like NY and Boston which are estimated into the billions. Recently NYC's mayor approve $10 billion to help Manhattan be more resilient to sea level rise and storm surges; that's just for the Manhattan shore line and there are many other flood plains in the city's other boroughs. They don't have sea defenses in the way the Netherlands does, which is why they're in dire shape and have routine flooding. The remediation proposed in their studies address better drainage, which might help in the short term, but not in the long run.
correct. Now you seem to have a glimmering of understanding.
So what is your real point here? You disagree with NASA and support the Republican agenda or vice versa?
Fail.
Unable to read I see. You asked for citations, I provided them. It is your failure, not mine.
My point was that you are not honest. You knew I was referring to molecular oxygen when I stated there was no oxygen in Venus' atmosphere. You simply wanted to play a childish game, very much like a stereotypical leftist.
Long before the Sun overtakes the Earth, mankind will have the power to move planets and take us out until she blows and we must hibernate the long stellar journey.
Global warming = desertification.
Any number of events could trigger cooling at any point, so to be sure, I can only say it is likely the previous trajectory has not changed.
Global warming = the sun's decision, not mankind. We are powerless to do anything about this.
So why do you think the Earth continues to warm rapidly, even though solar activity has been falling for the past few decades?
- They're expecting sea level to rise between 14 and 26 inches from 1992 mean levels. The study's focus was addressing sea level rise to assist in planning, and not a study on the breakdown of contributors to the sea level rise. The data they're using is a median of the IPCC AR5, USACE, and NOAA models of projected sea rise.
- I don't know how much of Miami's budget is dedicated to sea level rise, but they approved a $400 million dollar bond to help some of the efforts against sea level rise. I'm sure that's insufficient given the estimates for other cities like NY and Boston which are estimated into the billions. Recently NYC's mayor approve $10 billion to help Manhattan be more resilient to sea level rise and storm surges; that's just for the Manhattan shore line and there are many other flood plains in the city's other boroughs. They don't have sea defenses in the way the Netherlands does, which is why they're in dire shape and have routine flooding. The remediation proposed in their studies address better drainage, which might help in the short term, but not in the long run.
1, Miami; (is that the 14 to 26 inches by 2060?) The contribution from global warming is presumably the same as the rest of the world. That is 59cm by 2100 of which there was a 18cm last century without AGW. That is 39cm over the century. That would be a 3.9mm/yr. Given that we have a 3.2mm including the "natural" 1.8mm that is a change from 1.4mm/yr to 3.9mm/yr. So by 2060 there will be a maximum sea level rise (I only deal with the worst case because of course if it is less...) of 156mm from AGW by 2060. 6 inches. So the rest of the sea level rise there is due to the usual sea level rise and the fdact that Miami is slowly sinking due to tectonic processes. The existing sea defenses are around 12 feet high. The additional 6 inches is thus 1/24 of this. Then divide it by the number of years it will be good for, 40, and compare this figure[$400,000] to the cost of Miami's traffic lights. It will be less.
2, NY; Billions divided by the existing height of the sea defenses and the time they will be good for. Compared to the number of trqaffic lights in the city. When the traffic lights cost more than the catastrophe it is not a catastrophe.
3, Boston; You are casing around in despiration to find some place that will have some sort of real problem here arn't you?
4, Neitherlands; As you say, when people address the need for decent sea defenses they happen and are proof against the storms of the North Sea. What will the Dutch do if the world's oceans rise by 59cm? They will add 1m to the existing sea defenses, job done. Easy. They have land 7m below sea level already. Will be 7.6m. They manage to drain this land in teh long term.
Find another thing to panic about.
I'm glad you're so optimistic, however the Miami/Dade government shares a different perspective and I've already cited their sources and studies. Also, it's not $400,000 but $400 million bond that's been approved. Please cite your source for tectonic processes playing any role on this. There is an issue of land subsidence due to construction methods in Miami's development (filling in swamplands etc), particularly in Miami Beach.
The annual expenditure on traffic lights is about $450 million for NYC, sea defenses for vulnerable areas of the city will be billions in additional spending. NYC has only recently started building sea defenses due to the devastation of hurricane Sandy's storm surge caused to some parts of the Staten Island, but other parts of the city have no defenses at all.
Nope, no desperation at all. If you had read any of the material, you'd know that Miami's assessment referred to similar assessments conducted by other major US cities as a means of comparing other plans to address sea level rise and their respective costs, which is why I mentioned the cities cited in Miami's report.
The Netherlands have existing sea defenses, many US cities do not. The changes in sea level rise and other changes to the nature of seasonal storms have made flooding and storm surges a bigger problem for costal cities, which is why many of them are allocating funds as a preventative measure. The issue then becomes allocating massive funding for these remediation/preparation projects.
I'm not sure how you made the determination any of this is "panicking". Major cities are taking a proactive position based on the impacts to other cities because this type of preparedness is costly and takes time to mobilize and complete. I suppose some would rather just wait it out, and see if any of the projections come to pass, but it seems city governments would rather not sit around and wait unprepared. In the case of Miami, sea level rise is already affecting the city regularly.
Oh God....,
Miami; $400 million divided by 24 (prportion required for the AGW part) divided by 40 years is about $400,000 per year. The WORLD is going to have a maximum of 6 inches sea level rise by 2060 from now due to AGW. Source IPCC.
NYC; Billions again divided by the proportion that will be required due to AGW and the time those defrenses will be good for. Vs the high cost of traffic lights. Easy win for traffic lights.
Boston; If you could read what i had written you would not be posting as if I had said nothing.
Neitherlands; All built environment sea shores will need constant money spent on them. Just how it is. Sea defenses are nothing new for any built environment shore.
Panic; If all this Global Warming is nothing to panic or worry about, as the required adjustments are tiny, less than the traffic light budget, then what is all the fuss about?????????????????????????????????????????????????
Oh God....,
Miami; $400 million divided by 24 (prportion required for the AGW part) divided by 40 years is about $400,000 per year. The WORLD is going to have a maximum of 6 inches sea level rise by 2060 from now due to AGW. Source IPCC.
NYC; Billions again divided by the proportion that will be required due to AGW and the time those defrenses will be good for. Vs the high cost of traffic lights. Easy win for traffic lights.
Boston; If you could read what i had written you would not be posting as if I had said nothing.
Neitherlands; All built environment sea shores will need constant money spent on them. Just how it is. Sea defenses are nothing new for any built environment shore.
Panic; If all this Global Warming is nothing to panic or worry about, as the required adjustments are tiny, less than the traffic light budget, then what is all the fuss about?????????????????????????????????????????????????
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?