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A presidential self-pardon would make the Constitution meaningless

JacksinPA

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http://thehill.com/opinion/energy-e...ardon-would-make-the-constitution-meaningless

Recently, President Trump claimed that he had the “absolute right” to pardon himself. His lawyer Rudy Giuliani made this claim even more ludicrous. He said Trump could commit murder, pardon himself, and go on as if nothing ever happened.

They’re wrong.

The Constitution isn’t a video game, and Trump can’t break the law, buy himself “Magic Self-Pardoning Powers” from some pixilated wizard, and start all over again.
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Pardoning is a process that by definition involves 2 people, not one. There has to be a pardoner & a pardonee. Pardoning oneself means you are acting as both judge & jury & that makes no legal sense.
 

This is nonsense....the remedy is as it always was, removing the wayward President from office. There is no right to beat on them more than that, on purpose.
 
Technically, I hear, it might be possible. But it's politically untenable so the question is academic.
 
ecofarm said:
Technically, I hear, it might be possible. But it's politically untenable so the question is academic.
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It was; now I am not so sure........
 
Rogue Valley said:
40% of people in this country support Trump. Scary stuff.
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I think most of that is "support republican platform and policies". Very few would support a president, specifically, that pardons himself. It's too ludicrous.
 
The real problem for any President wishing to do such a thing is that accepting a pardon constitutes admission of guilt. Trump may be able to keep himself out of jail on federal charges but in so doing he would seal his fate with impeachment proceedings and potential removal from office.
 



Two thirds of one-hundred is sixty-seven. I don’t see it, unfortunately.
 
Napoleon said:
That’s what midterms are for
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The House may be in play; not so much on the Senate. I have to admit, I have severely underestimated the current occupant @ 1600 Penn. Ave.

Even if the Dems pick up a few seats in the Senate, I don’t see 2/3 to convict.
 
It's absurd to think that our founders envisioned a president who is above the law. And a self-pardoning president would literally be above the law. The Crown that the founders rebelled against didn't have that power. The last monarch who asserted it (Charles I) was beheaded by parliament--under Cromwell's influence--and the reforms that followed were the catalysts for Britain's modern constitutional (ceremonial) monarchy.
 
Rexedgar said:
The House may be in play; not so much on the Senate. I have to admit, I have severely underestimated the current occupant @ 1600 Penn. Ave.

Even if the Dems pick up a few seats in the Senate, I don’t see 2/3 to convict.
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I think it’s going to depend on how spooked Republicans are and what deals there are to be made.
 

Trump has never said "Pardon me" to anyone. :2rofll:
 
Rexedgar said:
The House may be in play; not so much on the Senate. I have to admit, I have severely underestimated the current occupant @ 1600 Penn. Ave.

Even if the Dems pick up a few seats in the Senate, I don’t see 2/3 to convict.
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If President Trump pardons himself I'd bet you'd see 51% to impeach in the House and 2/3 in the Senate to convict.
 
hanger4 said:
If President Trump pardons himself I'd bet you'd see 51% to impeach in the House and 2/3 in the Senate to convict.
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I think we will find out....
 
Rexedgar said:
The House may be in play; not so much on the Senate. I have to admit, I have severely underestimated the current occupant @ 1600 Penn. Ave.

Even if the Dems pick up a few seats in the Senate, I don’t see 2/3 to convict.
Click to expand...

It would come down to the Mueller report and the depth of evidence he comes up with connecting Trump with the Russians, they interference i the campaign, the cover up of it all, and any other crimes he may have committed.

I think of it this way - a wife dependent on the husband may learn to look the other way when he comes home late with lipstick on his collar and smelling of perfume. She may take the excuse that a secretary at work bumped against him when she put the papers on his desk over his shoulder knowing its crap to begin with. But if the wife comes home and hubby is in bed with the same secretary and they are burning massive calories under the sheets - its really hard to ignore that.

If Mueller can produce the political equal of that secretary under the sheets, even the GOP cannot ignore that.
 
ecofarm said:
I think most of that is "support republican platform and policies". Very few would support a president, specifically, that pardons himself. It's too ludicrous.
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I do believe under the current reading of the Constitution he has such power.

However, the first time any President actually did it to himself, there would be a hue and cry from ALL sides demanding a Constitutional Amendment to define the pardon power...and I would join it.
 

I’m in your camp; but that particular analogy is already in play! I wish I felt optimistic.....
 
Rexedgar said:
The House may be in play; not so much on the Senate. I have to admit, I have severely underestimated the current occupant @ 1600 Penn. Ave.

Even if the Dems pick up a few seats in the Senate, I don’t see 2/3 to convict.
Click to expand...

Isn't it sad that party trumps the Constitution now? (Pun not intended, but fitting).

"He is above the law, just as the Founders intended."
 
ecofarm said:
I think most of that is "support republican platform and policies". Very few would support a president, specifically, that pardons himself. It's too ludicrous.
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No. Even less Americans support Congress. Look it up.
 
Rogue Valley said:
No. Even less Americans support Congress. Look it up.
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I find it impossible to separate the political and the personal in the poll. Comparing to congress might be a start, but people dislike congress more than presidents of their own lean.
 
rocket88 said:
Isn't it sad that party trumps the Constitution now? (Pun not intended, but fitting).

"He is above the law, just as the Founders intended."
Click to expand...

I have been meaning to start a thread where I ask those Trump supporters who believe in Original Intent when it comes to the law if they think the founders intent was that a president could just pardon himself. I get that congress can remove him, but that isn't the question I have.
 
Rogue Valley said:
40% of people in this country support Trump. Scary stuff.
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I know, should be more like 70%...but there are always that 30 or so percent of the rabid left, self loathing anti American Americans that cannot be convinced thru fact nor reason.

Shrug.

When a nation has it so prosperously good, the leiure time flush, naturally negative navel gazers will always find minute faults, material with which to create insidious mountains out of mere mole hills. Its what they do. But...

Thats life.
 
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