• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

A nice thing about the passed health care bill

Harry Guerrilla

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
28,951
Reaction score
12,422
Location
Not affiliated with other libertarians.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
It is rare that I have something nice to say about politicians and I thought it was impossible for that something to come from the health care bill.

Included in the bill was student aid reform.
What wasn't widely talked about was the Pell grant changes made.

Before the changes you had to be a full time student to receive grant funds but they have changed that requirement to allow part time students.
I can now afford to go back to school because of this and do applaud this part of the bill.

Just wanted to give credit, where credit is due. :2wave:
 
Congrats on being able to go back. Good luck with it.

But, and maybe this is just my misunderstanding, wouldn't the libertarian principle be that all education needs to be private and that the government shouldn't be in the student loan business or handing out student grants? I'm just curious.
 

I have to work with the world I live in.

If I could change things to perfectly fit my wants, I would but that isn't realistic.
 
Good luck, Harry! :2wave:

 

well, i go to school on Federal Aid, including Pell Grants and you are right. it is a terrific opportunity.

I mentioned this rider to the bill earlier in a rather different context. It is a bitter irony that good, stout conservatives can support this even though is is precisely the model that was originally posited for the Health Reform Bill.

Student loans USED to be provided by private lenders with repayment guaranteed by the Fed. Essentially providing these lenders with free money for moving paper around. no risk whatsoever. NOW federal government will be "taking over", lending the monies directly.

see... THAT is what we wanted as a UHC. NO private companies profiting off a needed social benefit.

but... we cannot do that... THAT would be evil socialism. NOW... we have simply made the profits the insurance companies receive greater and the risk less. We have essentially endorsed extortion.

geo.
 
roughdraft274 said:
wouldn't the libertarian principle be that all education needs to be private and that the government shouldn't be in the student loan business or handing out student grants?
Click to expand...

only when it benefits someone ELSE. we gotta maintain our priorities.

geo.
 
Geo Patric said:
NOW... we have simply made the profits the insurance companies receive greater and the risk less. We have essentially endorsed extortion.
Click to expand...

exactly

that's why THIS health care bill is a PIG

the president FAILED

sorry
 
Well it's a good thing, cause I have this cough you know, and changing the pel grants will give me better access to healthcare. :doh: :ssst:
 
Geo Patric said:
only when it benefits someone ELSE. we gotta maintain our priorities.

geo.
Click to expand...

I didn't start this to be critical of other people, in fact I did it to give kudos to the drafters of the bill.
I could go on and on about the "goods" and the "bads" of educational grants.
Some how I think the thought process would be lost on you because of your hyper partisanship.

roughdraft274 asked a valid question which I think I answered fully to fulfill the understanding of my position.
If you'd like to discuss my answer, by all means, have at it.

Just don't be a jerk.
 
The Prof said:
exactly

that's why THIS health care bill is a PIG

the president FAILED

sorry
Click to expand...

i disagree with your characterization of the man, but NOT of the bill. I endorsed it for the very same reason he did. failure to pass it would have been seen as failure. Now. republicans failed, because he got the bill through and now he looks strong. Democrats failed because they gave us a bill that makes health care available only at great cost; a financial cost (insurers are already warning of huge increases in premiums) as well as a surrendering of our Liberty to decide and by benefiting the swine that got us into this difficulty in the first place..

Republicans fought the bill to defeat the LIBERAL, not for any of the reasons they pretended. That was the reason to support it.

geo.
 
The Prof said:
exactly

that's why THIS health care bill is a PIG

the president FAILED

sorry
Click to expand...

Off topic.


Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Well it's a good thing, cause I have this cough you know, and changing the pel grants will give me better access to healthcare. :doh: :ssst:
Click to expand...

Rev I love yea man but there were legitimate problems with financial aid that needed to be addressed.
I understand the contradictory issues with one supporting federal educational grants and being libertarian but this is the world we live in and I can not change this.

If all else stays the same, this was a good change.
 
i am not a jerk. i am angry that conservatives have forced us to shoot ourselves in the foot to avoid shooting ourselves in the head.

and ALL based on falsehoods. because it did not benefit them.

I am sure m. Obama appreciates your generous 'kudos'.

geo.
 

Then your beef is with conservatives and not me.
Don't stink up my thread with your inane comments.
 
a libertarian is a conservative that smokes pot.

geo.
 
Geo Patric said:
a libertarian is a conservative that smokes pot.

geo.
Click to expand...

I don't smoke weed, can't help you with that.

My beliefs are more complex than you would understand.
Of course, this thread has nothing to do with that.

I should of known better than to start a thread, being pleasant, to only have people come in and stink it up with hyper partisanship.
 




Oh, I see your points wth all these grants and what now, and while as a libertarian I don't support em. I see why you would.


My tongue in cheek commentary was more in line with the WTF is this in a bill about something unrelated thing that all our congress idiots do.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Hmm. I didn't know that. Where do I get this "pot"? I want to be a good libertarian. :roll:
Click to expand...

dunno.... it's been a while... all MY sources are long dried up.

but.... dig.... "yes, i know that my stance on publicly financed public services when it applies to a great many people contradicts my stance on publicly financed public services when it applies to me, but THIS time, it is good".

did i misinterpret something?

geo.
 




The LP platform states Abortion should be choice. I am opposed to that.


the LP party did not support the wars. I do.


Do you lockstep with the republican party in order to call yourself a conservative?
 
well, no, i am not a conservative. I am a Liberal in the sense that I support the pursuit of Liberty, but I belong to no party.

funny, we are diametric opposites. I support a woman's right to abortion and I oppose the war in Iraq. I did not always oppose the war in Afg, but i am starting to... it is a futile effort that does not do what we first intended... yeah, off topic. news today brought it to mind. i will start a new thread.

Ar scáth a cheile a mhaoireas na daoine,
geo.
 
Geo Patric said:
Now. republicans failed, because he got the bill through and now he looks strong. Democrats failed because they gave us a bill that makes health care available only at great cost
Click to expand...

republicans failed in november, 08, and the months and years preceding

the party in power failed when it passed a PIG that essentially endorses extortion

ie, that was then, this is now
 
how can one "look strong" after just passing a bill that essentially endorses extortion?
 
Last edited:
I do have to say that as much of a hard-ass as I am about government spending money, dollars spent on education that will produce another productive individual in society is something that I have no problem with. (providing the NEED is truly there)
 
Last edited:
Geo Patric said:
a libertarian is a conservative that smokes pot.

geo.
Click to expand...

Not true. A libertarian is someone who wants to live his own life his own way, and let you live your life your own way, as long as we don't step on each others' toes, and as long as we each pay for our own lives and our own mistakes.
 
The Prof said:
how can one "look strong" after just passing a bill that essentially endorses extortion?
Click to expand...

weird, innit?

but, that's politics!

geo.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…