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A New Ban on Surprise Medical Bills Starts This Week

Greenbeard

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They've been a long time coming but today's the day new consumer protections from surprise medical bills kick in.

A New Ban on Surprise Medical Bills Starts This Week
For years, millions of Americans with medical emergencies could receive another nasty surprise: a bill from a doctor they did not choose and who did not accept their insurance. A law that goes into effect Saturday will make many such bills illegal.
If you are having a medical emergency and go to an urgent care center or emergency room, you can’t be charged more than the cost sharing you are accustomed to for in-network services. This is where the law’s protections are the simplest and the most clear for people with health insurance.
For scheduled services, like knee operations, C-sections or colonoscopies, it’s important you choose a facility and a main doctor that is in your insurance plan’s network. If you do that, the law bars anyone else who treats you from sending you a surprise bill. This also addresses a large problem. Surprise bills from anesthesiologists, radiologists, pathologists, assistant surgeons and laboratories were common before.

If, for some reason, you are having such a service and you really want an out-of-network doctor to be part of your care, that doctor typically needs to notify you at least three days before your procedure, and offer a “good faith estimate” of how much you will be charged. If you sign a form agreeing to pay extra, you could get additional bills. But the hospital or clinic can’t force you to sign such a form as a condition of your care, and the form should include other choices of doctors who will accept your insurance.
 
They've been a long time coming but today's the day new consumer protections from surprise medical bills kick in.

A New Ban on Surprise Medical Bills Starts This Week
Have to read up on it but sounds good. We had an experience similar for outpatient surgery. Some sort of assistant that was used for a small procedure that we weren't even aware was there. He was brought in from another office last minute. We got a bill around $500 and we told the original office to stick it and work it out with the other office on their own. Thankfully that's what happened and it ended there.
 
Multiple bills from multiple doctors is part of the reason that medical costs are so high in the States. My DH broke his wrist downhill skiing a few years ago and we got something in the neighbourhood of 5 or 6 different bills. The one that really surprised me was from a cardiologist! Turns out he was the on duty doc in the ER who looked at the Xrays, saw the fracture and called the bone doc to treat it!
 
Have to read up on it but sounds good. We had an experience similar for outpatient surgery. Some sort of assistant that was used for a small procedure that we weren't even aware was there. He was brought in from another office last minute. We got a bill around $500 and we told the original office to stick it and work it out with the other office on their own. Thankfully that's what happened and it ended there.

Things like that happened about one-in-six times before. People would be at an in-network facility getting a covered service, unbeknownst to them some out-of-network provider would be involved in their care in some ancillary way, and they'd end up on the hook for the full bill from that particular provider (something they only learned weeks or months after the fact). Just an egregious market failure.

Multiple bills from multiple doctors is part of the reason that medical costs are so high in the States. My DH broke his wrist downhill skiing a few years ago and we got something in the neighbourhood of 5 or 6 different bills. The one that really surprised me was from a cardiologist! Turns out he was the on duty doc in the ER who looked at the Xrays, saw the fracture and called the bone doc to treat it!

Best to think of an American hospital as more of a WeWork space for various medical professionals than an all-inclusive package deal.
 
Best to think of an American hospital as more of a WeWork space for various medical professionals than an all-inclusive package deal
I have come to understand that many Americans don't give a damn about the cost and availability of healthcare to all. They just care about "me" and willfully ignore the fact that, for the most part, someone else is paying for their care should they need it....but heaven forbid they should pay for someone else.
 
Have to read up on it but sounds good. We had an experience similar for outpatient surgery. Some sort of assistant that was used for a small procedure that we weren't even aware was there. He was brought in from another office last minute. We got a bill around $500 and we told the original office to stick it and work it out with the other office on their own. Thankfully that's what happened and it ended there.

Wow. That's just great. A second surgeon was called in to assist with what was evidently an issue and you don't think that person should be paid? The "worked it out" you are referring to means that that second surgeon ended up having to work for free because you don't think it was necessary, but you sure would have given the opportunity to sue someone.

Classic american healthcare entitlement, right here.

I have come to understand that many Americans don't give a damn about the cost and availability of healthcare to all. They just care about "me" and willfully ignore the fact that, for the most part, someone else is paying for their care should they need it....but heaven forbid they should pay for someone else.

Yea, this availability is always cute. The vast, vast majority have nearly unlimited access to state of the art procedures with a higher availability and timeliness. The problem is how places like the WHO measure this in an effort to skew the outcomes. Just look at joint replacements or interventional cardiology procedures in places like the UK and compare them to the US.
 
Wow. That's just great. A second surgeon was called in to assist with what was evidently an issue and you don't think that person should be paid? The "worked it out" you are referring to means that that second surgeon ended up having to work for free because you don't think it was necessary, but you sure would have given the opportunity to sue someone.

Classic american healthcare entitlement, right here.
I absolutely think he should be paid. But after our consultation and detailed description of procedure and people involved, we agreed to their quote and moved forward. The office miscalculated the personnel they would have available and they did not inform us they were changing services nor did they even let us know it happened after the fact. We found out some time later when the other office billed us. I viewed my response as a negotiation and put the burden on the original office to resolve payment - and they did. Doesn't get any more American than that.
 
So if the doctor doesn’t take that person’s insurance, and they can only charge what that person would pay under that insurance, who pays the difference? Sorry if answered but I’m blocked by the paywall.
 
I absolutely think he should be paid. But after our consultation and detailed description of procedure and people involved, we agreed to their quote and moved forward. The office miscalculated the personnel they would have available and they did not inform us they were changing services nor did they even let us know it happened after the fact. We found out some time later when the other office billed us. I viewed my response as a negotiation and put the burden on the original office to resolve payment - and they did. Doesn't get any more American than that.

Incorrect sir.

A surgical procedure is often like an automobile repair. You go in with an estimate for an expected series of items to be done, however sometimes that changes once you get in there. Unlike a car repair, the surgeons can't stop and pick up the phone to authorize additional work. However when you/your wife signed the consent form it was certainly clearly spelled out that complications may occur and necessitate additional line items, as it were. So there was no miscalculation. It was quite simply that for some reason your wife's procedure was more complicated than normal and that required a second set of hands.

I will give you a pretty standard example. Say you have a woman getting a hysterectomy. If that person is morbidly obese, it is going to be very likely to lead to complications, but they won't know that for sure until they are in the case. Further, if she were super skinny and super fit, she might have a ton of abdominal adhesions (scar tissue) which results in significantly more involvement, bleeding, risk etc and thus the procedure has to change as well.

You didn't negotiate, you told them to pound sand over a few hundred bucks and they declined to pursue it in collections. If they had, they would have won, hands down. They just didn't want to deal with the headache over a relatively small sum of money. That is precisely the American way. You got the service you felt you were entitled to, you underpaid for it, and threw a fit. They simply deemed you weren't worth the headache. Do you realize how many times I have seen this exact example play out?

I assume you had insurance, right? If so, you didn't negotiate anything, it was all spelled out in your insurance contract. These sorts of cases go to court all the time, 99% of the time the patient loses.

Out of curiosity, what do you think they should have done? From your point of view, you had a quote for a procedure, but the agreement you signed was for a specific set of work for a specific case/complication risk and you signed a document saying you were aware that additional complications and costs may arise. You don't see that second part, you just see "I agreed to pay you $1000 and you agreed to give me back a working wife". That's just not accurate, not fair, and it is really the crux of the problem in this country. Everyone wants concierge medicine, but they sure as hell don't want to pay for it.

Meanwhile, if the surgeon knew this was the case and thus declined to assist in the operation, you would have sued like a madman when something went wrong, right?

So if the doctor doesn’t take that person’s insurance, and they can only charge what that person would pay under that insurance, who pays the difference? Sorry if answered but I’m blocked by the paywall.

This is basically a scam pushed through by insurance companies. They are doing this so the providers have zero leverage in negotiating contracts. Why would BCBS negotiate in good faith when they know they can just stick it to you on the back end?
 
Incorrect sir.

A surgical procedure is often like an automobile repair. You go in with an estimate for an expected series of items to be done, however sometimes that changes once you get in there. Unlike a car repair, the surgeons can't stop and pick up the phone to authorize additional work. However when you/your wife signed the consent form it was certainly clearly spelled out that complications may occur and necessitate additional line items, as it were. So there was no miscalculation. It was quite simply that for some reason your wife's procedure was more complicated than normal and that required a second set of hands.

I will give you a pretty standard example. Say you have a woman getting a hysterectomy. If that person is morbidly obese, it is going to be very likely to lead to complications, but they won't know that for sure until they are in the case. Further, if she were super skinny and super fit, she might have a ton of abdominal adhesions (scar tissue) which results in significantly more involvement, bleeding, risk etc and thus the procedure has to change as well.

You didn't negotiate, you told them to pound sand over a few hundred bucks and they declined to pursue it in collections. If they had, they would have won, hands down. They just didn't want to deal with the headache over a relatively small sum of money. That is precisely the American way. You got the service you felt you were entitled to, you underpaid for it, and threw a fit. They simply deemed you weren't worth the headache. Do you realize how many times I have seen this exact example play out?

I assume you had insurance, right? If so, you didn't negotiate anything, it was all spelled out in your insurance contract. These sorts of cases go to court all the time, 99% of the time the patient loses.

Out of curiosity, what do you think they should have done? From your point of view, you had a quote for a procedure, but the agreement you signed was for a specific set of work for a specific case/complication risk and you signed a document saying you were aware that additional complications and costs may arise. You don't see that second part, you just see "I agreed to pay you $1000 and you agreed to give me back a working wife". That's just not accurate, not fair, and it is really the crux of the problem in this country. Everyone wants concierge medicine, but they sure as hell don't want to pay for it.

Meanwhile, if the surgeon knew this was the case and thus declined to assist in the operation, you would have sued like a madman when something went wrong, right?



This is basically a scam pushed through by insurance companies. They are doing this so the providers have zero leverage in negotiating contracts. Why would BCBS negotiate in good faith when they know they can just stick it to you on the back end?
Whether you believe it be correct or not makes no difference to me. This was no complication and certainly no emergency procedure, the office made an error and had to call in someone last minute to cover their mistake. It could have very easily been scheduled for another day. This procedure - like a lot - boils down to a simple business transaction. They are providing a service and the patient is providing a payment through insurance, private or a combination thereof. Whether they covered it because it was the right thing to do or because they didn't want the headache also makes no difference to me. Not sure why this would get anyone hot and bothered.
 
So if the doctor doesn’t take that person’s insurance, and they can only charge what that person would pay under that insurance, who pays the difference? Sorry if answered but I’m blocked by the paywall.

The insurer is on the hook for paying the provider now (not the patient, other than their normal cost-sharing obligations) and the rate to be paid is negotiated between the insurer and the provider. If they can't reach an agreement, either one can send it to a dispute resolution process.
 
Whether you believe it be correct or not makes no difference to me. This was no complication and certainly no emergency procedure, the office made an error and had to call in someone last minute to cover their mistake. It could have very easily been scheduled for another day. This procedure - like a lot - boils down to a simple business transaction. They are providing a service and the patient is providing a payment through insurance, private or a combination thereof. Whether they covered it because it was the right thing to do or because they didn't want the headache also makes no difference to me. Not sure why this would get anyone hot and bothered.

I have no expectation of changing your point of view. People tend to want to justify their beliefs if it ends up benefiting them, it is human nature. You didn't think you owed a bill, surprisingly that decision is in your best interest, never mind the fact that you contractually did. I am not sure why you think I am hot and bothered, I'm not, I have just seen this scenario play out a few hundred times. Entitled patients thinking they are owed everything and owe nothing.

What mistake did the office make? Why would the office be calling another surgeon to come in to an active case? How would having it scheduled a different day have changed this?



The insurer is on the hook for paying the provider now (not the patient, other than their normal cost-sharing obligations) and the rate to be paid is negotiated between the insurer and the provider. If they can't reach an agreement, either one can send it to a dispute resolution process.

No, that's not what this does.

It basically means that a non contracted provider (ie: out of network), will now have to accept the "reasonable and customary" amount for services as full and final payment. This amount will likely be less that the same service in the same area for providers who are contracted. What this will allow is insurance companies to low-ball contracts to service providers knowing that they won't have to end up in court or with an angry insured. They will simply say "we offered him the normal $500" and he said no, so screw him, and he can't do a damned thing about it.

The result is predictable. Physicians will simply refuse to cover emergency call.
 
No, that's not what this does.

Yes, that's what it does. If the parties can't reach agreement and go to arbitration, then the provider can go ahead and make their case as why they're worth more than the median in-network rate. I'm sure that'll be very compelling.

They will simply say "we offered him the normal $500" and he said no, so screw him, and he can't do a damned thing about it.

I weep for his lost ability to remain out-of-network and balance bill unsuspecting patients who never consented to whatever rate he felt like setting. Is there no justice in this world?
 
I have no expectation of changing your point of view. People tend to want to justify their beliefs if it ends up benefiting them, it is human nature. You didn't think you owed a bill, surprisingly that decision is in your best interest, never mind the fact that you contractually did. I am not sure why you think I am hot and bothered, I'm not, I have just seen this scenario play out a few hundred times. Entitled patients thinking they are owed everything and owe nothing.

What mistake did the office make? Why would the office be calling another surgeon to come in to an active case? How would having it scheduled a different day have changed this?
You're hot and bothered because you know virtually nothing of my experience yet you pass some sort of judgement as if you're in a position to do so. I feel I've wasted far too much time on this.
 
Yes, that's what it does. If the parties can't reach agreement and go to arbitration, then the provider can go ahead and make their case as why they're worth more than the median in-network rate. I'm sure that'll be very compelling.

I weep for his lost ability to remain out-of-network and balance bill unsuspecting patients who never consented to whatever rate he felt like setting. Is there no justice in this world?

First, as you said, the arbiter will be unmoved by *any* argument a provider might make.

Second, I don't expect you to weep for a physician, but what are you going to do when there isn't one available as a result? What happens when you can't get trauma, stroke, or heart care in an emergent situation because none of those specialist will respond to an emergency department call?

You're hot and bothered because you know virtually nothing of my experience yet you pass some sort of judgement as if you're in a position to do so. I feel I've wasted far too much time on this.

I honestly have all the details of your experience that are relevant honestly, if you think there is something missing by all means share it with the class. Like I said, I have seen this argument more times than I can count and they are all the same in the end.
 
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