Axismaster
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ngdawg said:Points for some...misguided in others.
1) Read the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights, then read the hundreds of other posts here. NOWHERE do they 'guarantee' life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to anyone but men as worded.
2) Nowhere in the Constitution are rights given to embryos or fetuses. Laws that include the death of these in assaults or murders make the presumption that the pregnancy was welcomed and that the fetus would have been viable had it not been harmed. Even then, state laws vary; where someone may be charged in an unlawful death of a fetus in one state, may not be included in charges in another.
3) Rights are not compromised or dismissed as they are not there to begin with.
4)'Child' is a stage, such as you are in now. You are not an adult yet. You were once a baby. Had your mother not been able to carry you for whatever reason and chose abortion as her option, she would not have aborted neither a child nor an adult-it would have been, in all likelihood, in the embryonic stage. Does this make it not a death? No, but it makes it within her rights to do so.
"Pro-life Libertarian" is a misnomer on your part. You are either for free will and the right to choose how one conducts one's life or you aren't.
Put another way: Do you live on your own? Make your own way? Make your own rules? Someone speaks for you, supports you, pays for your schooling, clothes, food, etc. You have limited rights as a child. You had no rights as an embryo. You will have more rights as an adult. Your parents, on the other hand, have all the rights accorded them as per the country's laws. Once they made the decision to have you, they took the responsibility as parents to exercise their parental rights. But first, they had to make that decision and they exercised their rights to do so.
Axismaster said:There are certain authorities nobody should have, and taking life is one of them. I'm telling you, every American has equal rights to those basic things. If you want to see a fetus has no rights, then why not extend that to minorities? I'll tell you why, because the left's favorite sport is to trade in rights they don't like for rights they do like.
Axismaster said:There are certain authorities nobody should have, and taking life is one of them. I'm telling you, every American has equal rights to those basic things. If you want to see a fetus has no rights, then why not extend that to minorities? I'll tell you why, because the left's favorite sport is to trade in rights they don't like for rights they do like.
galenrox said:yeah, but then wouldn't then your stance just come down to when you think life begins?
I think another interesting point would be that citizenship begins at birth, and so these rights could be interpreted as not applying until birth, unless we instead percieve them to actually be inalianable rights, thus applying to all living people (and thus if you believe that a fetus is a living person you could reasonably feel that those rights would apply to the fetus)
Just tossing those ideas out there.
galenrox said:But now we have to weigh which right trumps which. .
galenrox said:The right to an abortion is held up in this nation by the right to privacy, but in most situations doesn't one's right to life trump one's right to privacy in most situations? Like if you know someones gonna get killed in a house, you can go in without a warrant, right?.
galenrox said:But on the other hand, in certain situations it's far more gray than that example, i.e. wire taps and so on and so forth, which are supposed to be done in the name of protecting our right to life, are, in my opinion, clearly wrong and I feel our right to privacy trumps the right to life there.
I think abortion would fall into one of those gray areas in this situation.
Billo_Really said:I have no comment on this issue.
OK, I have a comment. A fetus is not life. It has no ability to sustain itself. That's not life.Originally posted by Vandeervecken
And yet, this doesn't stop you from posting one anyway. . .
Vandeervecken said:You might also note that slavery is banned by the Constitution except upon felony conviction, unless you plan an making it illegal to have an unwanted pregnancy, quickly arresting trying and convicting the mother, the fetus has no right to enslave the mother to provide life support.
You can use the word 'stupid' here, Galenrox...no need to be PCgalenrox said:Alright, now that's just outright proposterous. We were having an actual conversation about abortion, and you've gotta come along and drop one of the "pro-choice people are baby-killers" and fould up the whole conversation. It's anti-social crap like that that has caused the current impasse in the debate, even though both sides can admit that without some sort of compramise or agreement with the other side whatever happens will fail.
galenrox said:yeah, I concur, but I unfortunately can't use the word "stupid", I'm a moderator now!
How about a REAL debate regarding the use of abortions. We never see a compromise on having it legal or illegal. There is no common ground in that area at all.galenrox said:Alright, now that's just outright proposterous. We were having an actual conversation about abortion, and you've gotta come along and drop one of the "pro-choice people are baby-killers" and fould up the whole conversation. It's anti-social crap like that that has caused the current impasse in the debate, even though both sides can admit that without some sort of compramise or agreement with the other side whatever happens will fail.
Oops! When did that happen? Congrats! Or should I be wishing you lots of luck?:mrgreen:galenrox said:yeah, I concur, but I unfortunately can't use the word "stupid", I'm a moderator now!
FutureIncoming said:ONLY if the unborn human qualifies as a person, does that statement have any chance of being valid.
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