A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right now

TheDemSocialist · Dec 15, 2016

North Carolina is a state divided. Its incoming governor and attorney general are Democrats, but its legislature is overwhelmingly Republican. And true to North Carolina headline-grabbing politics, there's a knockdown, drag-out fight about who gets to control the levers of power before anyone is even sworn in.In the waning hours of Republicans' hold on government in North Carolina, they are proposing bills aimed at significantly curbing Democratic Gov.-elect Roy Cooper's power. In a last-last-minute special session, Republicans introduced a series of bills late Wednesday that would:
— Require the governor's Cabinet appointments to be approved by the state Senate.
— Limit the number of members the governor can appoint to powerful board of trustees at the University of North Carolina school system and the state Board of Education.
— Significantly cut the number of positions who work directly for the governor, from 1,500 (a number Republicans approved when they had a Republican governor) to 300.
— Divide members of the Board of Elections, typically appointed by the governor, between parties in a way that gives Republicans control during election years.
Two bills also aim to change the state courts' partisan makeup. They would:
— Make North Carolina just the sixth state in the nation with a partisan state Supreme Court elections, as opposed to a nonpartisan one. (The last state to make its top court elections partisan was Pennsylvania in 1921.)
— Add an extra layer to appeals cases so that all cases have to go through the full court of appeals, which is controlled by Republicans.
Obviously, Cooper won't be there to veto all this; the man he defeated, Gov. Pat McCrory (R), is still governor for a few more weeks.

Read more @: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right now

Wow this is some pretty messed up stuff. Its clear that the Republicans in North Carolina are trying to using this special session to limit the incoming Democratic governor. Now I agree with calling a special session for that hurricane relief, but that should be the only reason they are convening a special session.

Beaudreaux · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

A coup? A power grab? Bull****.

Seems to me, that just like Obama is still President with all the power and authority of the office still in tact, the current Governor of NC is still governor and the NC General Assembly is still controlled by members of the House and state Senators with all the power and authority of those positions still in tact.

To try stop the duly elected officials currently in power by people that have yet to be sworn into office is the real power grab, the real coup, if any actually exists.

Democrats in NC and you buddies in the press, like WaPo, you won the governor's office in NC. Now just wait until you get sworn in and you can do whatever the state constitution will allow you to do, but until then... STFU and wait your turn.

Tanngrisnir · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Beaudreaux said:
A coup? A power grab? Bull****.

Seems to me, that just like Obama is still President with all the power and authority of the office still in tact, the current Governor of NC is still governor and the NC General Assembly is still controlled by members of the House and state Senators with all the power and authority of those positions still in tact.

To try stop the duly elected officials currently in power by people that have yet to be sworn into office is the real power grab, the real coup, if any actually exists.

Democrats in NC and you buddies in the press, like WaPo, you won the governor's office in NC. Now just wait until you get sworn in and you can do whatever the state constitution will allow you to do, but until then... STFU and wait your turn.

No, it's not bull****. It's a naked, brazen power grab, no matter how much that upsets some people and they have to whine about who's currently in power.

WCH · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

In TX, all the real power exist with the Lt. Governor.

Beaudreaux · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Tanngrisnir said:
No, it's not bull****. It's a naked, brazen power grab, no matter how much that upsets some people and they have to whine about who's currently in power.

That, too, is bull****. Then why don't you call the White House and tell President Obama that he doesn't have any power anymore if you think you're correct?

The person in power, still has the power. It's that simple. Regardless of how butt hurt the Republicans are about Obama, or how butt hurt the Democrats are about McCrory, they are still in power.

Beaudreaux · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

WCH said:
In TX, all the real power exist with the Lt. Governor.

Same way in Mississippi, because he/she presides over the legislature. But not in NC.

Absentglare · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Beaudreaux said:
A coup? A power grab? Bull****.

Seems to me, that just like Obama is still President with all the power and authority of the office still in tact, the current Governor of NC is still governor and the NC General Assembly is still controlled by members of the House and state Senators with all the power and authority of those positions still in tact.

To try stop the duly elected officials currently in power by people that have yet to be sworn into office is the real power grab, the real coup, if any actually exists.

Democrats in NC and you buddies in the press, like WaPo, you won the governor's office in NC. Now just wait until you get sworn in and you can do whatever the state constitution will allow you to do, but until then... STFU and wait your turn.

What? I don't understand your contention.

It sounds like they're trying to dramatically cut the incoming governor's power- do you contest this?

Kobie · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Beaudreaux said:
A coup? A power grab? Bull****.

Seems to me, that just like Obama is still President with all the power and authority of the office still in tact, the current Governor of NC is still governor and the NC General Assembly is still controlled by members of the House and state Senators with all the power and authority of those positions still in tact.

To try stop the duly elected officials currently in power by people that have yet to be sworn into office is the real power grab, the real coup, if any actually exists.

Democrats in NC and you buddies in the press, like WaPo, you won the governor's office in NC. Now just wait until you get sworn in and you can do whatever the state constitution will allow you to do, but until then... STFU and wait your turn.

Oh, come on. It's quite obvious what the intent of this is -- to kneecap the incoming governor because he's a Democrat.

Tanngrisnir · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Beaudreaux said:
That, too, is bull****. Then why don't you call the White House and tell President Obama that he doesn't have any power anymore if you think you're correct?

No, sorry, it's simply not bull****, no matter how much that upsets you. They're moving to make sure that power is taken out of the hands of the next gov and put back into theirs. They've even going so far as to make less appointed positions for the governor there is now. That power will then be in the hands of the legislators. That's a power grab. No two ways about it, and Obama is irrelevant to that.

The person in power, still has the power. It's that simple. Regardless of how butt hurt the Republicans are about Obama, or how butt hurt the Democrats are about McCrory, they are still in power.

I'm not denying that. Yes, they're still in power, so spare me the straw man. They're currently trying to consolidate even more power, and doing so simply for political reasons. They're doing it in a special session exclusively for this purpose involving 27 bills. It's unprecedented and they're even going after things like election boards, etc...

That's a power grab. You don't have to accept reality, but you can 't change it.

Beaudreaux · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Kobie said:
Oh, come on. It's quite obvious what the intent of this is -- to kneecap the incoming governor because he's a Democrat.

Intent is invariably interpretive and wholly subjective. The fact that the current governor and legislature have the power to act is not. That's my point. I haven't stated my opinion on whether they should or should not (the intent), just that they can act within the state constitution, and that referring to a legal and constitutional action as a coup or power grab is pure hyperbolic political bull****, which it is.

Kobie · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Beaudreaux said:
Intent is invariably interpretive and wholly subjective. The fact that the current governor and legislature have the power to act is not. That's my point. I haven't stated my opinion on whether they should or should not (the intent), just that they can act within the state constitution, and that referring to a legal and constitutional action as a coup or power grab is pure hyperbolic political bull****, which it is.

Coup, probably not. Power grab? Absolutely -- a nakedly brazen one. It's unquestionably a power grab.

Beaudreaux · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Tanngrisnir said:
No, sorry, it's simply not bull****, no matter how much that upsets you. They're moving to make sure that power is taken out of the hands of the next gov and put back into theirs. They've even going so far as to make less appointed positions for the governor there is now. That power will then be in the hands of the legislators. That's a power grab. No two ways about it, and Obama is irrelevant to that.

I'm not denying that. Yes, they're still in power, so spare me the straw man. They're currently trying to consolidate even more power, and doing so simply for political reasons. They're doing it in a special session exclusively for this purpose involving 27 bills. It's unprecedented and they're even going after things like election boards, etc...

That's a power grab. You don't have to accept reality, but you can 't change it.

I'm not upset in the slightest. I'm not going around waving my arms and screaming "COUP" and "POWER GRAB" which is again, bull****. Those currently in power have the power to act, and exercising constitutional power is neither a coup nor a power grab.. It's that simple.

Tanngrisnir · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Beaudreaux said:
I'm not upset in the slightest. I'm not going around waving my arms and screaming "COUP" and "POWER GRAB" which is again, bull****. Those currently in power have the power to act, and exercising constitutional power is neither a coup nor a power grab.. It's that simple.

Yawn. Sorry you can't accept the reality of this power grab.

Not my problem. Good luck with your magical thinking.

Absentglare · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Beaudreaux said:
Intent is invariably interpretive and wholly subjective. The fact that the current governor and legislature have the power to act is not. That's my point. I haven't stated my opinion on whether they should or should not (the intent), just that they can act within the state constitution, and that referring to a legal and constitutional action as a coup or power grab is pure hyperbolic political bull****, which it is.

The point of this thread is that they should not (because it seems petty and partisan), rather than that they can not.

Visbek · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Beaudreaux said:
Intent is invariably interpretive and wholly subjective.

The intention is clear in the bills. They want to curtail the incoming governor's power, at the absolute last minute. If McCrory had won, none of these bills would be considered.

....referring to a legal and constitutional action as a coup or power grab is pure hyperbolic political bull****, which it is.

I concur, it's apparently legal, and calling it a coup is an exaggeration.

At the same time, the real bull**** here is on the part of the Republican state legislators. They lost the governorship, in no small part due to the laws the legislature passed. And pulling stunts like these only licenses Democrats to do the same to them.

Casper · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Beaudreaux said:
I'm not upset in the slightest. I'm not going around waving my arms and screaming "COUP" and "POWER GRAB" which is again, bull****. Those currently in power have the power to act, and exercising constitutional power is neither a coup nor a power grab.. It's that simple.

I wonder what the People of NC think about having their will subverted, meaning the person they elected being hobbled. Me thinks this could backfire badly and the Dems could use this to take the NC Legislature come the next elections.

Beaudreaux · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Kobie said:
Coup, probably not. Power grab? Absolutely -- a nakedly brazen one. It's unquestionably a power grab.

I agree that it could be reasonably seen as a power grab. However, again, it's within the constitutional powers of the governor and legislature to do this, so it's not power grab, as much as ensuring the maintenance of political influence (a form of power). Maintaining certain forms of power rather than grabbing power that doesn't exist in the first place.

For comparison purposes, we could look at how Harry Reid killed the filibuster in the US Senate so that President Obama could pack the DC Circuit Court and to get all the other appointments (with the exception of the SCOTUS) past the Republicans before they might take control of the Senate... which they did. Both actions are a political move regarding maintenance of political influence (a form of power) by one party that is allowed by the US Constitution and in the case of NC, allowed by the state constitution.

Beaudreaux · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Casper said:
I wonder what the People of NC think about having their will subverted, meaning the person they elected being hobbled. Me thinks this could backfire badly and the Dems could use this to take the NC Legislature come the next elections.

Probably the same way the people of the United States feel about President Obama's actions since November 8th. If that were true, then we'd probably be pissed, but that isn't what's happening. That is the narrative being used to spin this for political purpose by the Democrats and their buddies in the press, because statements like that sell papers and sell ads on local news.

TheGoverness · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Casper said:
I wonder what the People of NC think about having their will subverted, meaning the person they elected being hobbled. Me thinks this could backfire badly and the Dems could use this to take the NC Legislature come the next elections.

Yep. The GOP just put a full mag in the Dem's AR.

Beaudreaux · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Visbek said:
The intention is clear in the bills. They want to curtail the incoming governor's power, at the absolute last minute. If McCrory had won, none of these bills would be considered.

No doubt about it.

Visbek said:
I concur, it's apparently legal, and calling it a coup is an exaggeration.

Hence me calling it BS.

Visbek said:
At the same time, the real bull**** here is on the part of the Republican state legislators.

Oh, I agree, it's absolutely a bull**** move.

Visbek said:
They lost the governorship, in no small part due to the laws the legislature passed. And pulling stunts like these only licenses Democrats to do the same to them.

Damned right they did, and HB2 as well as a few other actions of theirs are still rubbing me the wrong way.

Beaudreaux · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Absentglare said:
The point of this thread is that they should not (because it seems petty and partisan), rather than that they can not.

No. The subject of the thread is in both the title of the thread and the title of the OP article: A coup? A power grab? Theres (sic) some serious political drama in North Carolina right now

Nowhere does it water it down to being just petty and partisan - it called it a potential coup and power grab.

Kobie · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Beaudreaux said:
I agree that it could be reasonably seen as a power grab. However, again, it's within the constitutional powers of the governor and legislature to do this, so it's not power grab, as much as ensuring the maintenance of political influence (a form of power). Maintaining certain forms of power rather than grabbing power that doesn't exist in the first place.

For comparison purposes, we could look at how Harry Reid killed the filibuster in the US Senate so that President Obama could pack the DC Circuit Court and to get all the other appointments (with the exception of the SCOTUS) past the Republicans before they might take control of the Senate... which they did. Both actions are a political move regarding maintenance of political influence (a form of power) by one party that is allowed by the US Constitution and in the case of NC, allowed by the state constitution.

As stated earlier in the thread, just because the GOP can do it doesn't mean they should.

<alt>doxygen · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Beaudreaux said:
I agree that it could be reasonably seen as a power grab. However, again, it's within the constitutional powers of the governor and legislature to do this, so it's not power grab, as much as ensuring the maintenance of political influence (a form of power). Maintaining certain forms of power rather than grabbing power that doesn't exist in the first place.

For comparison purposes, we could look at how Harry Reid killed the filibuster in the US Senate so that President Obama could pack the DC Circuit Court and to get all the other appointments (with the exception of the SCOTUS) past the Republicans before they might take control of the Senate... which they did. Both actions are a political move regarding maintenance of political influence (a form of power) by one party that is allowed by the US Constitution and in the case of NC, allowed by the state constitution.

This is somewhat OT, but NC is something of a testbed for a Koch/Pope puppet government. Read Dark Money... NC will be like Kansas soon enough.

Absentglare · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Beaudreaux said:
No. The subject of the thread is in both the title of the thread and the title of the OP article: A coup? A power grab? Theres (sic) some serious political drama in North Carolina right now

Nowhere does it water it down to being just petty and partisan - it called it a potential coup and power grab.

I agree that the "coup" language is hyperbolic.

I also think that NC republicans should respect the governor that NC voters elected.

Beaudreaux · Dec 15, 2016

Re: A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right

Kobie said:
As stated earlier in the thread, just because the GOP can do it doesn't mean they should.

I haven't stated my opinion as to whether they should or shouldn't, because the thread title and WaPo article implied implicitly that this was a coup and a power grab.

There's only one of the actions that are know so far (which we really don't know exactly what's going to happen yet) is the bill to require cases to go before the state's 15 Appeals Court judges en banc before the case can go to the Supreme Court, but that has nothing to do with the governor or politics. That one is a slap in the face of the citizens that are poor or middle class and can't afford to pay a lawyer for such a time consuming event and a money making scam for lawyers that have clients with deep pockets.

I see no problem with having the Governor get his/her appointments first approved by the Senate, like is done on the federal level. I also don't see a problem with controlling the number of appointments the governor can make to boards and senior positions in state government departments and having those come before the Senate as well. That's actually a part of the state constitution already, it just hasn't been complied with for decades - the Governor would send a list to the state Senate and the list would be voted on under a consent agreement vote along with dozens of other things. Now there will be hearing and interviews. I don't have a problem with that.

A coup? A power grab? Theres some serious political drama in North Carolina right now

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