• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

A comment about 'improving capitalism'

“free enterprise in schooling”

IE you want poor people to have one room schoolhouses while the rich get actual educations.

Why do you use anti-trans slurs?

:rolleyes::poop: ^^^^

The/?your Republicrat authoritardians have enabled the 'education anachronism' to proliferate..

Lectures are events that can be transmitted widely for a fraction of the cost that your stinking government system drain$ from taxpayers.. All people could hear the very best, most inspirational, etc., teachers/professors instead of busing them to hear the typical government midwit school teacher...many of whom decided at age 17, "I WANT TO BE A TEACHER" :rolleyes:... so they go through the stinking government teacher licen$ing proce$$ and 4 years later VOILA! They are a 'teacher'.. :rolleyes:

In any naturally ordered society elders are usually 'the teachers' counselors, etc..

But in your stinking system some 22 year old with a degree from Wassamatta U. who's never earned a dollar not stolen from some taxpayer is entrusted with the truly important job of inculcating into the next generation the necessary skills needed to thrive in a free market?!?

Then again authoritardians don't want an honest free market/free enterprise... They want to blather about 'anarcho 💩 socialism', etc., absent an honest clue about how the current money system 'works'.
 
:rolleyes::poop: ^^^^

The/?your Republicrat authoritardians have enabled the 'education anachronism' to proliferate..

Lectures are events that can be transmitted widely for a fraction of the cost that your stinking government system drain$ from taxpayers.. All people could hear the very best, most inspirational, etc., teachers/professors instead of busing them to hear the typical government midwit school teacher...many of whom decided at age 17, "I WANT TO BE A TEACHER" :rolleyes:... so they go through the stinking government teacher licen$ing proce$$ and 4 years later VOILA! They are a 'teacher'.. :rolleyes:

In any naturally ordered society elders are usually 'the teachers' counselors, etc..

But in your stinking system some 22 year old with a degree from Wassamatta U. who's never earned a dollar not stolen from some taxpayer is entrusted with the truly important job of inculcating into the next generation the necessary skills needed to thrive in a free market?!?

Then again authoritardians don't want an honest free market/free enterprise... They want to blather about 'anarcho 💩 socialism', etc., absent an honest clue about how the current money system 'works'.

“Naturally ordered society”

You want to return to primitive tribes?
 
“Naturally ordered society”

You want to return to primitive tribes?

:rolleyes:

Did they teach you that 'the government prints the money' or did you learn that from another bobo? lol!
 
:rolleyes:

Did they teach you that 'the government prints the money' or did you learn that from another bobo? lol!

I learned that the Federal Reserve generates the US money supply from people who weren’t internet whackjobs who thinks society would be better if we just made capitalism that much stronger.
 
I learned that the Federal Reserve generates the US money supply from people who weren’t internet whackjobs who thinks society would be better if we just made capitalism that much stronger.

Sadly it sounds like they filled your head with a lot of crap.

I favor a transparent, egalitarian system of money creation and issuance.. If that's your subjective 'ism :poop: jism' definition of 'capitalism' then maybe I'm 'a capitalist'...

Unfortunately, the hideous realities of how money is created and issued have obviously never been an interest of yours..
 
Sadly it sounds like they filled your head with a lot of crap.

I favor a transparent, egalitarian system of money creation and issuance.. If that's your subjective 'ism :poop: jism' definition of 'capitalism' then maybe I'm for it..

Unfortunately, the hideous realities of how money is created and issued has obviously never been an interest of yours..

No system can be egalitarian when the rich exist and are able to use their wealth to influence society.
 
No system can be egalitarian when the rich exist and are able to use their wealth to influence society.

:rolleyes: 💩 ^^

I know. Remember I'm the one who reminds Republicrat-level people to stop voting for/affirming/legitimizing the shit puppet politicians who are mere tool$ of 'the rich' about whom you blather repeatedly..
 
:rolleyes: 💩 ^^

I know. Remember I'm the one who reminds Republicrat-level people to stop voting for/affirming/legitimizing the shit puppet politicians who are mere tool$ of 'the rich' about whom you blather repeatedly..

Yet you want to keep in place capitalism. Do you think if we had different parties the rich wouldn’t make them their tools?
 
Yet you want to keep in place capitalism. Do you think if we had different parties the rich wouldn’t make them their tools?

Ime, your understanding of 'capitalism' and all other 'isms' is unique to you...vague, shitty, worthless....
 
Ime, your understanding of 'capitalism' and all other 'isms' is unique to you...vague, shitty, worthless....

And you are reduced to insults because you can't actually answer my question.
 
First there's not just one supplier in the world because if there was and you said you weren't going to buy from them anymore you would go out of business.
I did not say there was one supplier so I don’t know what you’re on about here. But if there were and that happened—that is, if that supplier made the foolish decision to sell to the one store and lose our business, which none would ever do, when we went out of business we’d all still be millionaires, so there’s that.

I called up ALL the suppliers of the products we sold, which is all the ones there were at the time. ALL of them chose not to sell to that store.

If I was a sole proprietor I wouldn't be trying to compete with Walmart.
Whoever, then. Super chair mart, if you prefer. But whoever it is, they’ve got a relationship with every supplier of raw materials out there (at least the ones that sell in the U.S.), and there’s a reason for that.
So if they can't purchase all the raw materials in the world and all the suppliers in the world which they can't
Sure they can—not all the supply, but they can and do purchase from all the suppliers. Again, there’s a reason for that. Maybe you could travel to Malaysia and trek into the jungle a few weeks and find some loggers willing to cut trees for you, and then you could buy your own sawmill and purchase your own cargo ship…but how many startups have the few hundred million dollars it would take to establish an entire supply line?

they just use the law as in government to form their Monopoly that's my point they can't have a monopoly unless they use the government.
And my point is that your point is false. I gave you a real world example from my own experience how it’s done.

If that's the case you're not losing money. Walmart is.

They will be my customer. I'm not discounting to the point where I'm making a profit.
You miss the point. They will habituate customers to coming into their store for the chairs (they start with quite an advantage on that score as an established business) and when that’s near-total, they’ll stop buying chairs from you, having, meanwhile, found a supplier that’s nearly as good but who sells to them wholesale. Reverse engineering, unless you can patent your chairs, which takes a long while. In the meantime, they can take the loss. You can’t take the loss of your customer base.

Keep in mind at this point it’s academic—them cutting off your supplies and flooding you with lawsuits has already shut you down.

Involving the civil courts is involving the government. If I'm a sole proprietor they can't poach my employees.
So, do you think we should not have civil courts? Because unless you do, your point has no force.

Also, I think you mean sole employee. A sole proprietor can have other employees.

No it's corporatism using courts too bleed someone dry is an artifact of government. And you don't have to shut down all civil courts in order to stop predatory lawsuits.
Not the other stuff—shutting off your supply, pulling your customer base away, poaching your employees. As for stopping predatory lawsuits, feel free to explain how. Super chair mart’s $1500-an-hour attorneys will assure the courts there’s nothing predatory about the suits they’ve filed, and will present slick arguments from left field you’ve never thought of to prove the point. It’s called the liar’s advantage.

Much of this only happens because of government interference.
Government did not interfere when I cut off that couple’s supply.
 
Last edited:
And you are reduced to insults because you can't actually answer my question.

Please define what YOU mean when you invoke your stinking theory of 'capitalism'... lol!
 
Proving my point you can't have a monopoly without government interference.
Proves no such thing. Cutting off your supply is quite enough. Worked for my company on several occasions.

And again, unless you think it’s a good idea to shut down civil courts, it’s unclear what your point could be, since that’s a function of government you wouldn’t want to see go away. That is, that’s a function that would survive any gutting of government you propose. Again, unless you think we should just make it so no one can sue anyone…that’s the price you’d have to pay here for your point to have force.
 
Proves no such thing.
You have referred to using a governmental apparatus to establish a monopoly
Cutting off your supply is quite enough.
I'm not sure you're capable of that
Worked for my company on several occasions.
So you claim. And it could just be that you were matching wits with a moron
And again, unless you think it’s a good idea to shut down civil courts,
Didn't say that. Not letting corporations abuse the government to prop up their monopoly wouldn't require shutting down civil courts.


it’s unclear what your point could be,
Monopolies cannot exist without government interference.
since that’s a function of government you wouldn’t want to see go away. That is, that’s a function that would survive any gutting of government you propose. Again, unless you think we should just make it so no one can sue anyone…that’s the price you’d have to pay here for your point to have force.
Yeah the shutting down civil courts is your strawman. I didn't have to defend it.
 
You have referred to using a governmental apparatus to establish a monopoly
Not dependent on the other methods I cited. That is, the other methods I cited are enough all on their own.

I'm not sure you're capable of that
I did it. So yeah, I’m obviously capable of it.

So you claim. And it could just be that you were matching wits with a moron
Well, they were morons to think they could compete with us, I’ll give you that.

Didn't say that. Not letting corporations abuse the government to prop up their monopoly wouldn't require shutting down civil courts.
Then, as I said before, you need to explain how that would work. Super chair mart’s expensive lawyers are going to say they’re within the rules. The attorneys you can afford will likely not be as good as the ones they can afford.

Monopolies cannot exist without government interference.
You’ve yet to prove that. In fact, as far as I can tell you’ve yet to even argue it.

Yeah the shutting down civil courts is your strawman. I didn't have to defend it.
I don’t think you know what a straw man is. I did not represent that that’s what you said. I presented you a destructive dilemma-either you have to accept shutting them down, you have to show how they can be modified to prevent the kinds of lawsuits I’ve envisioned, or you have to accept that your point has no force. Those are your three options.

Saying that monopolies cannot exist without government is, among other things, a call to change the government, right? For example, it’s a conservative canard that because big business engages in regulatory capture to their advantage and the disadvantage of smaller competitors, we should do away with or greatly reduce regulatory agency power. You can say the same thing of the civil courts only at a very high cost.

The only way out is for you to provide an account of how courts can be modified to prevent such lawsuits. Here, I’ll start one off for you: do away with the so-called American rule about attorneys fees. That’s not all it would take (courts hand down bad judgements all the time-maybe you’d end up having to pay their attorney’s fees in such a situation), but it might be a start.

That said, suppose you succeed where the most brilliant legal minds of the last four centuries or so have failed. What will you have accomplished as to this debate? You’ll have knocked down one of four ways that larger businesses can keep smaller ones from staying in business that I’ve explained. There would still be 3 more to go…
 
It shouldn't be. How does society benefit from you preventing efficient trade for monopoly for yourself? It is harmed.
That’s my point. I did that stuff back when I had drank the capitalist kool-aid and thought what I was doing would ultimately be a benefit to the economy. Gordon Gecko type crap. I gradually woke up to the fact that what I was doing was in fact hurting many people and enriching a few, so I got out of the corporate rat race, gave my personal fortune away, and started a different life.

I came to realize that the principles capitalists invoke about property rights, the sacredness of contracting freely, and so on have been used by the powerful to impose a harmful and wrong system on society, and so these principles need to be modified if there is to be any real justice. I regret not realizing it sooner, though I suppose many people are able to deceive themselves for much longer than I was. Still, I am ashamed of it, and only talk about it to wake people up. The propaganda about how capitalism is supposed to work, mostly by conservatives though some liberals join in, is just that—there’s a huge gap between that propaganda and reality.
 
Last edited:
That’s my point. I did that stuff back when I had drank the capitalist kool-aid and thought what I was doing would ultimately be a benefit to the economy. Gordon Gecko type crap. I gradually woke up to the fact that what I was doing was in fact hurting many people and enriching a few, so I got out of the corporate rat race, gave my personal fortune away, and started a different life.

Congratulations. That went from a remarkably bad situation to a remarkably good situation.

I came to realize that the principles capitalists invoke about property rights and the sacredness of contracting freely have been used by the powerful to impose a harmful and wrong system on society, and so these principles need to be modified if there is to be any real justice. I regret not realizing it sooner, though I suppose many people are able to deceive themselves for much longer than I was. Still, I am ashamed of it, and only talk about it to wake people up. The propaganda about how capitalism is supposed to work is just that—there’s a huge gap between that propaganda and reality.

That's great. It's just a big problem how rare it is. Figuring out how to increase that is a need for society.
 
What you mean printing and minting

What do you mean by how money is created?
I'm replying off of your posted question, CLAX1911, but only because I have one idea to help you with that question.

FIRST, though, I realized this was one mighty useful discussion and started my notes so I can weave all the many thoughts and questions together and an odd vocabulary usage popped out of my brain; governing money. I always file the name first "studying" and then the subject and that "governing money" just popped out without much thought. But it is sort of true; y'all want to discuss how to govern money. With "money" being defined as something much broader in scope than coins and that paper. For example, I was at the "able to understand" age when President Nixon took the U.S. off the gold standard. NOW THAT was a BIG deal.

Anyway, I want to get back to studying properly pages 2 through to here after taking the 20 to 30 minutes it took to study page one. We've got a significant discussion here, but only if we can find a way to break new ground. I hope that is the aim of some of you. Finding answers to problems should be the ultimate goal in this sort of discussion, no?

So after I hit post #22 and thought of a good answer I scanned the other pages and maybe I missed the answer I had in mind; but I didn't see it.

Now it is not a definitive answer, but it sure gets close. And it may not be so hard to find, although I haven't the time this morning to go check. It is called "The Four Horsemen" / Or something like that. It leans a bit toward some radical thought processes and I once heard a professor tear it to pieces for many reasons, BUT in their "Banking" section they do a pretty good job of discussing the modern concept of "money".

By the way, my main interest in this is two-fold; limits on "rich" (but defining "rich" is a tough one) AND get some control over campaign contributions. And I mean ALL of that campaign stuff. Some folks have gotten super clever at doing end-arounds of the many laws that pop up over the years, but basically some super new idea needs to be found (that works without breaking 'how-to-govern') --- some super new idea of separating money from the political elites. Meaning we also have to properly define "political elites" because I don't just mean them president types and senate types and them representative ones and them governor types, or them mayor types; I mean the whole darn political industry. There are some political party leaders that never actually worked for a group of citizens; they worked for a bunch of other political types that did/do work for citizens --- or are supposed to.

What we need is a really good definition of what constitutes a nation's "political industry" and I suppose in this discussion we are referring to the U.S., for the most part, yes?

Good gosh this post got way too long, and I am now late for my other job I have to get back to. POTUS has a decision coming up and I have to go back to my old job for a few days. Hopefully, just a few days. Was nice to be back here and a civilian again for a few days.
 
That's great. It's just a big problem how rare it is. Figuring out how to increase that is a need for society.
Indeed so. I try to bring it up whenever I can so as to educate people.
 
:rolleyes:

Ime Republicrats are unaware of/silent about the most powerful/consequential 'monopoly' of them all: The monopoly that a private, ?foreign, commercial banking cartel has over THE CREATION AND ISSUANCE of the most ubiquitous economic commodity: i.e. 'the dollar' here in 'Murca..

Sadly most/all Republicrat-level people still believe 'the government prints the money'. I believe you'll find that this myth has been promulgated by said private, ?foreign, commercial, banking cartel.. gee i wonder why? :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom