• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

A 20% tariff on all imports would be functionally equivalent to a tax of $3,400 to 4,200 per household on average in 2024 dollars

W_Heisenberg

W_Heisenberg

Trade Representative of Heard and McDonald Islands
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
26,552
Reaction score
28,860
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate

President Donald Trump said the baseline tariff rate for the world will be “in the range of 15 to 20% probably one of those two numbers.”

But a 20 percent broad tariff on all imports would be functionally equivalent to a tax on $3,400 to 4,200 per household on average in 2024 dollars.


All the Republicans and Trump supporters who thought Trump was going to lower their taxes just got screwed.

I assume most of the people who contribute to this forum are not in the top 1% of wealthy people.

So, what the Republicans did to us, in case you guys need to be reminded, is that they gave massive tax cuts to the wealthy in their big stinky bill, and they screwed you all over by increasing your taxes with tariffs.

Good job guys. Good job Trump supporters. Good job for screwing it up for the rest of us.

And then to top it all of, a bunch of people are going to face reduced government benefits and services.

You thought Trump stood up for the little guy. What fools he made his supporters out to be.
 
W_Heisenberg said:

President Donald Trump said the baseline tariff rate for the world will be “in the range of 15 to 20% probably one of those two numbers.”

But a 20 percent broad tariff on all imports would be functionally equivalent to a tax on $3,400 to 4,200 per household on average in 2024 dollars.


All the Republicans and Trump supporters who thought Trump was going to lower their taxes just got screwed.

I assume most of the people who contribute to this forum are not in the top 1% of wealthy people.

So, what the Republicans did to us, in case you guys need to be reminded, is that they gave massive tax cuts to the wealthy in their big stinky bill, and they screwed you all over by increasing your taxes with tariffs.

Good job guys. Good job Trump supporters. Good job for screwing it up for the rest of us.
Click to expand...

They spent all 4 years of Biden's term insisting we were in a recession we weren't in. They're going to have to convince Americans they aren't in a recession when one hits. We're gonna see a lot of "MY 401K is booming, no idea what everyone is upset about!"
 
The Brad Dad said:
They spent all 4 years of Biden's term insisting we were in a recession we weren't in. They're going to have to convince Americans they aren't in a recession when one hits. We're gonna see a lot of "MY 401K is booming, no idea what everyone is upset about!"
Click to expand...

100%
 
W_Heisenberg said:

President Donald Trump said the baseline tariff rate for the world will be “in the range of 15 to 20% probably one of those two numbers.”

But a 20 percent broad tariff on all imports would be functionally equivalent to a tax on $3,400 to 4,200 per household on average in 2024 dollars.


All the Republicans and Trump supporters who thought Trump was going to lower their taxes just got screwed.

I assume most of the people who contribute to this forum are not in the top 1% of wealthy people.

So, what the Republicans did to us, in case you guys need to be reminded, is that they gave massive tax cuts to the wealthy in their big stinky bill, and they screwed you all over by increasing your taxes with tariffs.

Good job guys. Good job Trump supporters. Good job for screwing it up for the rest of us.

And then to top it all of, a bunch of people are going to face reduced government benefits and services.

You thought Trump stood up for the little guy. What fools he made his supporters out to be.
Click to expand...
I think the fools actually believe that this will result in some great job creation. Let's watch job numbers over the next year and see if there is a big spike. How many jobs is a 18 % or so new National Sales tax worth?
 
BUT........................ all of them tariffs will make foreign goods more expensive, which is a good thing, cause then all that stuff can be made in the US of A.

Not sure by whom considerin' we shippin' out so many workers cause they are illegal and unemployment is already low, not sure where the workers gonna come from, but hey................ this sounds like an awesome deal only Trump coulda pulled off.

Ya see, if'n Trump and the Rightwing press are tellin' me these here deals are great deals, I believes him. I trust in Trump. And if'n a few goods go up in price, well, so what? Trump is da man, and that is good enuf for me.
 
W_Heisenberg said:

President Donald Trump said the baseline tariff rate for the world will be “in the range of 15 to 20% probably one of those two numbers.”

But a 20 percent broad tariff on all imports would be functionally equivalent to a tax on $3,400 to 4,200 per household on average in 2024 dollars.


All the Republicans and Trump supporters who thought Trump was going to lower their taxes just got screwed.

I assume most of the people who contribute to this forum are not in the top 1% of wealthy people.

So, what the Republicans did to us, in case you guys need to be reminded, is that they gave massive tax cuts to the wealthy in their big stinky bill, and they screwed you all over by increasing your taxes with tariffs.

Good job guys. Good job Trump supporters. Good job for screwing it up for the rest of us.

And then to top it all of, a bunch of people are going to face reduced government benefits and services.

You thought Trump stood up for the little guy. What fools he made his supporters out to be.
Click to expand...
Don't forget about the 50% tariff on metals that will impact most American manufacturing.

That's a double whammy - higher prices for US consumers for everything from cars to food (aluminum cans) and it makes American products less competitive globally.

This is a bigly self own.
 
Allan said:
Don't forget about the 50% tariff on metals that will impact most American manufacturing.
Click to expand...

It's so dumb. In some cases, it's now more advantageous to simply import finished products than to manufacture them in the U.S.

Trump and his supporters are the dumbest people on the planet when it comes to economics. They don't know a damn thing.

I honestly think they are not responsible for anything in their daily lives that has anything whatsoever to do with business or trade. They must all be retirees who do not actually work and instead watch Fox News 24/7.
 
Trumps tariff game is too broad to be anything but damaging for the US consumer. There are plenty of things that the US will never produce efficiently, or just can't produce at all, that are now being hit with tariffs. Take for instance things like out of season foods that just have to be imported from other countries with different seasons. Instead of being selectively excluded to protect the US consumer, they are just getting needlessly slammed by tariffs. End result is that the consumer pays more as a tariff tax.

Story in the local news here in New Zealand (where I now live) the other day. The US beef herd is the smallest it's been since the 1970's due to climate and financial issues. So NZ (and other countries) are supplying a lot of beef to the US due to the low US production. NZ beef is mostly lean, grass fed, beef that apparently is needed to make good burgers. It gets mixed with the more fatty US beef to make the perfect 'US' burger patty. It's also I believe cheaper than US beef because the climate here means little or no additional feed is required beyond what grows naturally. The story was an interview with an NZ beef farmer. He was asked about the new US tariffs. His response was - "The tariffs don't make any difference to me. I'm shipping all the beef I want to, and haven't changed my prices due to the tariffs. They get paid at the US end by the importer." Still wondering why beef prices keep rising??

NZ also exports out of season fruits and produce to the US. Being in the Southern hemisphere means our summer growing season is the US winter, so the US keeps fresh stuff on the shelves by importing. You can't suddenly start producing those products in the US winter, so again the US consumer gets a hit. Northern hemisphere demand for out of season produce from the Southern hemisphere is generally high compared to available production, so there is no need for the exporters to pay US tariffs. They get paid by US consumers.

What Trump has done by putting tariffs on the whole world at the same time is given away the negotiating power of many US importers. They can't play off country vs country to get better pricing, because the tariffs are on every country. Tariff differentials will drive importers to source from lower tariff countries, but they are now competing with higher tariffed countries, and will in fact be able to increase their prices rather their drop them. Think of beef again. Most US imports have come from Canada and Mexico in the past. Brazil has recently been another significant source. All those countries are seemingly getting hit with tariffs between 25% and 50%. Mexico also has a 'screw worm' (?) out break which is impacting live animal imports from Mexico which are traditionally significant. Australia and New Zealand are the other key beef suppliers and getting hit with lower (10%?) tariffs. But they can't supply enough beef to make up for the other countries, and with tight supply there is obviously zero need to reduce their pricing due to the tariffs. More likely their prices will climb due to the higher tariffs on their competitors. End result is not only the US consumer paying the tariffs, but paying higher prices as well. Eventually, US beef farmers might increase their herd sizes again, but the tariffs mean that the higher beef prices are locked in forever.

There are plenty more examples of how US consumers are going to be the ones paying for Trumps tariff taxes, but most people love a burger or good steak, so beef is a good example to understand.
 
Ishm said:
Trumps tariff game is too broad to be anything but damaging for the US consumer. There are plenty of things that the US will never produce efficiently, or just can't produce at all, that are now being hit with tariffs. Take for instance things like out of season foods that just have to be imported from other countries with different seasons. Instead of being selectively excluded to protect the US consumer, they are just getting needlessly slammed by tariffs. End result is that the consumer pays more as a tariff tax.

Story in the local news here in New Zealand (where I now live) the other day. The US beef herd is the smallest it's been since the 1970's due to climate and financial issues. So NZ (and other countries) are supplying a lot of beef to the US due to the low US production. NZ beef is mostly lean, grass fed, beef that apparently is needed to make good burgers. It gets mixed with the more fatty US beef to make the perfect 'US' burger patty. It's also I believe cheaper than US beef because the climate here means little or no additional feed is required beyond what grows naturally. The story was an interview with an NZ beef farmer. He was asked about the new US tariffs. His response was - "The tariffs don't make any difference to me. I'm shipping all the beef I want to, and haven't changed my prices due to the tariffs. They get paid at the US end by the importer." Still wondering why beef prices keep rising??

NZ also exports out of season fruits and produce to the US. Being in the Southern hemisphere means our summer growing season is the US winter, so the US keeps fresh stuff on the shelves by importing. You can't suddenly start producing those products in the US winter, so again the US consumer gets a hit. Northern hemisphere demand for out of season produce from the Southern hemisphere is generally high compared to available production, so there is no need for the exporters to pay US tariffs. They get paid by US consumers.

What Trump has done by putting tariffs on the whole world at the same time is given away the negotiating power of many US importers. They can't play off country vs country to get better pricing, because the tariffs are on every country. Tariff differentials will drive importers to source from lower tariff countries, but they are now competing with higher tariffed countries, and will in fact be able to increase their prices rather their drop them. Think of beef again. Most US imports have come from Canada and Mexico in the past. Brazil has recently been another significant source. All those countries are seemingly getting hit with tariffs between 25% and 50%. Mexico also has a 'screw worm' (?) out break which is impacting live animal imports from Mexico which are traditionally significant. Australia and New Zealand are the other key beef suppliers and getting hit with lower (10%?) tariffs. But they can't supply enough beef to make up for the other countries, and with tight supply there is obviously zero need to reduce their pricing due to the tariffs. More likely their prices will climb due to the higher tariffs on their competitors. End result is not only the US consumer paying the tariffs, but paying higher prices as well. Eventually, US beef farmers might increase their herd sizes again, but the tariffs mean that the higher beef prices are locked in forever.

There are plenty more examples of how US consumers are going to be the ones paying for Trumps tariff taxes, but most people love a burger or good steak, so beef is a good example to understand.
Click to expand...
Good post. I don't think the whole story of the harm the breadth of these tarrifs will cause is understood by Trumpers. Why tariff coffee, chocolate, bananas, toys and cheap kitchen goods? These things will never be produced in the US. Also why place high tariffs on raw materials that simply cannot be produced in the quantities required by manufacturers? It makes no sense .
 
It's a regressive Republican tax increase on consumers.
 
W_Heisenberg said:

President Donald Trump said the baseline tariff rate for the world will be “in the range of 15 to 20% probably one of those two numbers.”

But a 20 percent broad tariff on all imports would be functionally equivalent to a tax on $3,400 to 4,200 per household on average in 2024 dollars.


All the Republicans and Trump supporters who thought Trump was going to lower their taxes just got screwed.

I assume most of the people who contribute to this forum are not in the top 1% of wealthy people.

So, what the Republicans did to us, in case you guys need to be reminded, is that they gave massive tax cuts to the wealthy in their big stinky bill, and they screwed you all over by increasing your taxes with tariffs.

Good job guys. Good job Trump supporters. Good job for screwing it up for the rest of us.

And then to top it all of, a bunch of people are going to face reduced government benefits and services.

You thought Trump stood up for the little guy. What fools he made his supporters out to be.
Click to expand...
Anyone who thought Trump was going to stand up for the little guy is a total dupe. Completely conned. An easy mark. Been had. Got fooled. Got taken by a slick talker. The only thing they have to defend such a position is Billy Bob did it too, so that must make it OK. If they didn't have the peer pressure they would likely not reach the same conclusion on their own. Peer pressure is the number one reason for Trump support.

Even among those who resisted at first and said they would never support Trump, that didn't matter. Peer pressure did. Going along with the crowd translates into party power. They may not really like what they are getting but at least they are getting power; and more importantly, preventing Democrats from 'screwing up the nation.' There is lots of very negative propaganda about Democrats. MCGA eats it up. Hatred is a powerful emotion. Much of Donald's support is really emotional, rather than rational.

That is why rational arguments don't work on them. They'd rather go with Billy Bob or Bubba. "Here. Hold my beer. Watch this!"

Ignorance on display.
 
Trump is just bending over Republicans and they're begging for more spankings.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom