Yeah, okay. It's easier just to back off and say "You know what I mean!" I gotcha.I'm not going to entertain your feigned naiveté any longer, you've already proven yourself intellegent enough to understand me.
If I'd wanted one, I would have gotten one. Instead, I did what I wanted to do - which didn't include obtaining a PhD.And you could have gotten a PHD like my sister and could have all your capitalist wet dreams come true.
Perhaps people should reserve their judgment about Michael Moore and this movie until they see it. He addresses many of the arguments I've seen from conservatives about socialized health care in the film. Of course, I realize that many conservatives don't like Michael Moore and will have a negative view of him regardless and will most likely not see the film due to that fact. It's far easier to just make judgments about his weight rather than addressing the real issues.
)Yeah, okay. It's easier just to back off and say "You know what I mean!" I gotcha. ;
You are totally copping out. You know it you and might as well concede.
If I'd wanted one, I would have gotten one. Instead, I did what I wanted to do - which didn't include obtaining a PhD.
You think you're great but your not. you're just another windbag who's really ashamed of their success and defend it vehemently trying to dance around looking like the elistist you are.
But I don't care. You can have your pretend victory party with the rest of your "team".
But know that change is coming and it will be good. But it'll hardly affect you and your 'property.
You're the one refusing to explain your own comments and I'm supposedly the one copping out? :lol:You are totally copping out. You know it you and might as well concede.
How do you know?You think you're great but your not.
1) How could I "think I'm great" and at the same time be "ashamed of my success"?you're just another windbag who's really ashamed of their success and defend it vehemently trying to dance around looking like the elistist you are.
You mean the people that value our Bill of Rights, personal responsibility, and our freedom and liberty. You betcha.But I don't care. You can have your pretend victory party with the rest of your "team".
The only good change in this regard would elimination or reduction of social programs. I do think it's coming, yes.But know that change is coming and it will be good. But it'll hardly affect you and your 'property.
You're the one refusing to explain your own comments and I'm supposedly the one copping out? :lol:
No I've explaine dyou refuse to admit that you understand.
How do you know?
Your comments, your 'conviction', the way you write.
1) How could I "think I'm great" and at the same time be "ashamed of my success"?
It's a facade you have here in the anonimity of this forum.
2) Success in what? Do you even know what you perceive me being successful at?
I don't care, you might just be a telemarketer. But the way you boast about your priviliges being rights tell me that maybe you have an executive job.
3) Why would I be ashamed of any success? Who the hell is ashamed of their success?
People who are at work typing all day on some politcal website means they don't have a very hard job so it must be rough watching your coworkers do all your work while you slack off... Or maybe rich hubby just takes care of you so you don't even work and you really just have his opinions. Like I said I don't care.
Me, I'm at the public library that means your taxes pay for my posts. Enjoy!:2razz:
You mean the people that value our Bill of Rights, personal responsibility, and our freedom and liberty. You betcha.
Same in France... funny.
The only good change in this regard would elimination or reduction of social programs. I do think it's coming, yes.
The change you want will result in riots and civil unrest but that's not what's coming.
No I've explaine dyou refuse to admit that you understand.
Your comments, your 'conviction', the way you write.
It's a facade you have here in the anonimity of this forum.
I don't care, you might just be a telemarketer. But the way you boast about your priviliges being rights tell me that maybe you have an executive job.
People who are at work typing all day on some politcal website means they don't have a very hard job so it must be rough watching your coworkers do all your work while you slack off... Or maybe rich hubby just takes care of you so you don't even work and you really just have his opinions. Like I said I don't care.
Me, I'm at the public library that means your taxes pay for my posts. Enjoy!:2razz:
Same in France... funny.
The change you want will result in riots and civil unrest but that's not what's coming.
Saboteur said:They are when there's an unjust war on... Think of all those marines that are getting health care on your dime because they weren't responsable enough to not get wounded.
Originally Posted by Saboteur
They are when there's an unjust war on... Think of all those marines that are getting health care on your dime because they weren't responsable enough to not get wounded.
ROFLMAO! So our Marines, who signed up for military service BEFORE the Iraq war even started, are stealing tax dollars because they got dragged into a pointless war and get shot?
In the words of WI Crippler, thanks for the sig!
Well, you know someone has truly lost a debate when all they have left is an entire post of personal attacks.
You did put up a good fight though. It's really not your fault that the socialist agenda just has no foundation in real world application.
WOW you mean the Doctor I have to drive 60 miles away to get to and it takes almost 3 months to get an appointment?
That free healthcare?
Actually, that's one of the few things Saboteur has said so far that made any sense. Rivvrat opposes socialized health care- if those marines signed up for a dangerous job, they should pay their way!
P.S.- I'm not agreeing with him, just trying to make sure people understand him. It's almost a lost cause at this point though... devil's advocate ain't a fun job.
And Saboteur- just end this. Rivvrat has beaten the snot out of you this time. As long as she can win, she'll keep winning, and you'll end up looking foolish(er). I remember my healthcare debate with her (which I still think I won, since she stopped responding). She is uncompromising on the subject.
Actually, that's one of the few things Saboteur has said so far that made any sense. Rivvrat opposes socialized health care- if those marines signed up for a dangerous job, they should pay their way!
Sounds like my privatly funded HMO whats the diff?
Maybe if you would got off your *** and go find a decent job you would have good health insurance.Me, I'm at the public library that means your taxes pay for my posts. Enjoy!:2razz:
Wow, you must have a horrible healthcare plan. I get into a doctor right away (within a week or two) and they are located within 15 minutes of my house.
How can you even compare the two? Our taxes go to fund the military, which, included, is healthcare for those of our soldiers who defend our country and get injured.
That is so unbelievably different from people that have no job and thus can't afford healthcare at all, to those dying for us overseas that get injured.
Maybe if you would got off your *** and go find a decent job you would have good health insurance.
Think about it... Do you really want to get in on this?
Let's see. You bitch about the healthcare system and that everyone should pay for your healthcare and brag about being online all the time in the library. Yeah, I think I will jump in.Think about it... Do you really want to get in on this?
If you don't like it, oh well...
How can you even compare the two? Our taxes go to fund the military, which, included, is healthcare for those of our soldiers who defend our country and get injured.
That is so unbelievably different from people that have no job and thus can't afford healthcare at all, to those dying for us overseas that get injured.
Let's see. You bitch about the healthcare system and that everyone should pay for your healthcare and brag about being online all the time in the library. Yeah, I think I will jump in.
If you don't like it, oh well...
Alright then. Do everyone a favor and read some of the past posts, please. Instead of just telling me to get off my a$$ and get a better job... it's been done. So, if you have anything useful to add please do, however just trying to insult me doesn't do much for you or your position.
I wasn't comparing the two. I was attempting to explain his position- I know it is wrong for the same reason as you. You seemed to be laughing at him without responding- although the "ignant'" post pretty much denied him whatever credibility he already had.
Does this sound familiar?
"P.S.- I'm not agreeing with him, just trying to make sure people understand him. It's almost a lost cause at this point though... devil's advocate ain't a fun job."
- Your socialistic friend Edify_AIAW
Now that I've explained myself you simply must agree with me. I mean the logic is the same as rivrat's, RightOfCenter's and even our ex Marine freind WICrippler's. If you don't agree, do you mean to tell me that just because you all think that this should be paid for by that evil socialist theivery known as taxes I should have to!?
No one must agree with you, especially since your premise is flawed. You're implying that because we don't think the government is suited to handle certain things and nor should they handle certain things, that they shouldn't handle anything at all. Or... you're implying that because we think the government is suited for and should handle national defense, then we much also conclude they should handle and control every aspect of our lives.
Now you understand why I don't agree with you on UHC. Finally I got through to you, everything you said iin this paragraph is the admition that you get it, so let's not go back to symantics shall we?
Most people in this country would agree that national defense is the government's job. Some want defense spending cut, some want it increased, and some think it's just fine the way it is. But pretty much everyone agrees that national defense is necessary and isn't something that can be handled privately.
I agree that national defense is the governments job, don't get me wrong I was only making a point. True I would like to see a reduction in spending but for the most part, it's okay. I do not really think that a soldier should forage for their food or be paid $6.25 an hour but only when they're awake. Let's just get that straight.
Now, I'm all for cutting as much taxes as possible and eliminating most - if not all - government social programs, along with a few other things. While I deplore paying the taxes I do, I do recognize that some taxes are necessary to fund the defense of the country. I'm okay with that. I think most are.
So now your position is that our taxes should only go to defense spending? The gov shouldn't maintain freeways, prisons, shipping ports the mexican boarder?
So, do not make the mistake of thinking that just because we don't think it's the government's job to pay for Sally's stubbed toe, that we must also think that the government shouldn't do anything.
Right they should just pay for billion dollar airplaines, and grant money, $500,000.00 to the study of how congress makes decisions to be exact, not anything else I see... That's really smart.
In addition, we have addressed the negative aspects of national healthcare and no, you have NOT managed to discount them. You are, of course, perfectly free to believe that it's the government's job to coddle you from the cradle to the grave. But trust me when I tell you that such a notion will be (and is being) fought tooth and nail in this country because it goes against everything our country stands for.
You were the only one kind enough to post links about France's economy to which I responded, you seem to have ignored that and just went ahead to pretending I wasn't making any sense. The others just started pointing fingers, acting like it would be a substancial personal loss of 'property' and name calling.
I like how you acknowledge the fact that there is a movment to get UHC in this country, I was beginning to think I was the only one. But I must remember that this website and the folks who oppose me are an insignifacant percentage of the real world. I've been away for several month you see.
I do think the answer is as someone else suggested - government healthcare on a state by state basis. At least that would allow us responsible citizens the choice of moving to another state if our state becomes a nanny-wannabe. And, I imagine that such systems wouldn't be in place long before it's fully shown just how ineffective they will be. But I'm okay with that! I think we should take one state and make it the "test case". It'll be a social experiment. Then we can sit and watch as all of the responsible people leave that state and all the freeloaders move there. It'll be interesting to watch as the state government goes so deep in debt that it'll just collapse. I mean, with all the freeloaders there... who will actually be working and paying the taxes necessary to support them?
I could live with state by state UHC. I doubt your assumption that everybody would just stop working in favor of living recklessly would even come close to reality. Just because everybody would get a fair shake in heath care doesn't mean that everyone is looking for an excuse to quit their job and hurt themselves. This opinion of yours is the major flaw in your position and Karl Marx sights this same rediculous notion as a bourgois argument against valuing laborers and giving them more power in society. As I stated before, if your opinion where truely the case then this country's gov. would have fallen long ago.
Edit; I'd also like to add that this part of your position is similar to thinking that people don't commit murder simply because there's a law against it.
Come to think of it, then we would have them somewhat contained! We could put up a border fence, keep them all in, and the rest of us could just go on with our lives. :lol:
I said the same thing about a small town in LA when they wanted to ban halloween celebrations.
"Build a fence, they've gone nuts!" But I think that perhaps a state gov. that funded healthcare would actually increase in population and people would take jobs that they normally wouldn't which would boost the state's economy... I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
You didn't "get through to me" at all, since there wasn't anything to "get through about". No, I don't understand how anyone who values personal freedom, choice, and responsibilitiy could EVER be pro-UHC. EVER. But, if you don't value freedom, choice, and personal responsibility and instead think that people should be coddled and controlled, then i guess I can see how you would think UHC is a good idea. The fact that I know the government is better suited for certain things in this country isn't an "admission" of anything other than rational thinking. I already knew this. You didn't make me "see the light" on this matter.Now you understand why I don't agree with you on UHC. Finally I got through to you, everything you said iin this paragraph is the admition that you get it, so let's not go back to symantics shall we?
Ports can be privately run. Prisons would have to be a government thing because I just can't figure out how they could be privatized. Should someone come up with a workable solution for though, I'd be all ears. Roads could be privatized with tolls, but I'm okay with the government handling. There isn't much that they should be handling though. The big thing is national defense, then there are of course some other areas.So now your position is that our taxes should only go to defense spending? The gov shouldn't maintain freeways, prisons, shipping ports the mexican boarder?
Huh? Are you just ranting about government spending? Cause I agree that they spend way too much on stupid ****.Right they should just pay for billion dollar airplaines, and grant money, $500,000.00 to the study of how congress makes decisions to be exact, not anything else I see... That's really smart.
How can I NOT acknowledge the freeloaders? I had to work with them daily. I saw left and right every single day just how "wonderful" our current socialist systems are, how abused they are, how inefficient they are, how many people purposefully do things so they can continue to draw from the government and not actually work. It's rampant, it's the majority, and it's disgusting.I like how you acknowledge the fact that there is a movment to get UHC in this counrty, I was beginning to think I was the only one. But I must remember that this website and the folks who oppose me are an insignifacant percentage of the real world. I've been away for several month you see.
Yeah right. Go work in the system for awhile, I think you might actually see the light then.I could live with state by state UHC. I doubt your assumption that everybody would just stop working in favor of living recklessly would even come close to reality. Just because everybody would get a fair shake in heath care doesn't mean that everyone is looking for an excuse to quit their job and hurt themselves. This opinion of yours is the major flaw in your position and Karl Marx sights this same rediculous notion as a bourgois argument against valuing laborers and giving them more power in society. As I stated before, if yous opinion where tuely the case then this country's gov. would have fallen long ago.
Sure, it'll increase the population in a given area. But I doubt you'll care much for the people that move there."Build a fence, they've gone nuts!" But I think that perhaps a state gov. that funded healthcare would actually increase in population and people would take jobs that they normally wouldn't which would boost the state's economy... I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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