26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

presluc said:

If gun owners think of a gun as a trophy that should not have one.
If gun owners do not respect the gun they buy then they should not have one.
If gun owners think that everybody will stay away from their gun just because they say so , then they should not have one.
If gun owners have no place to keep their gun from being used by others then they should not have one
If gun owners do not know how to treat a gun they should never be able to buy one.eace

Click to expand...

Heheh, the same could be said for having kids.

presluc said:

If I applied for a loan of 5 grand would the bank just say "well can't tell if you are going to pay this back or not but here"?

Click to expand...

They'd check your credit score. What does your credit score say about your mental state?

They run extensive background checks on you for an APARTMENT, A DRIVERS LICENSE, A CHAUFFERS LICENCE, EVEN PEOPLE THAT HAVE FOOD STAMPS HAVE EXTENSIVE BACKGROUND CHECKS.

Click to expand...

Arrest Record, Credit Score, and proof of employment. If you think that is an extensive check, you need to apply for a security clearance.

However buying a gun not so much. evidently or there would not be so many nut jobs with guns killing innocent people and kids.

Click to expand...

The check your arrest record.

Lets face it somebody screwed up on selling guns legally to nut jobs, and they keep screwing up.

Whatever system the selling of guns has to not sell to nut jobs isn't working, time for a change.eace

Click to expand...

No, the guns were legally purchased and stolen from the person that legally purchased them .

presluc said:

So you're saying in their current system that mentally ill people can buy a gun or have access to a gun legally and that's why we need guns?
To protect the average honest responsible people that buy guns from the mentally ill people that buy guns????

Am I missing something here????

I have two solutions to the current problemetic system of gun control's system.

1. Stronger and more deliberate background checks with heavy prison sentences with anybody that breaks it and if a gun sold winds up at a crime scene directly heavy fines and loss of right to sell guns.

2. NO BACKGROUND CHECKS ARM EVERY TEACHER EVER WORKER IN THE WORK PLACE EDOUBLE THE MALL AND STORE SECURITY WITH ARMED GUARDS, PAYED FOR BY THE NRA and it's FOllOWERS PLUS GUN TAX ON EACH WEAPON ,TEACHERS AND WORKERS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT EXEMPT OF COURSE.. SINCE THEIR WEAPONS ARE SUPPLIED BY THE NRA.eace

Click to expand...

What I am saying is that until we attack violence people need guns to protect themselves. Crack Addicts are not well-known abiders of the law to begin with so outlawing guns and doing nothing about violence is comparable to, well, about most things liberals do. Buying their non-violence with "crazy checks" as they are known on the skreets ain't working so well. Regardless, the 2nd Amendment is what it is.

Fenton said:

The mentally ill are hardly coddled in this Country as they make up a large portion of the homeless population.

You're talking about people who by no fault of their own have been forced to contend with a life of poverty and pain.

Click to expand...

Mainstreaming mentally handicapped kids into the classroom to the detriment of other students so they do not feel different is coddling to me. If you are concerned about homeless mental patients, then you should support institutionalizing them and we can both be satisfied.

presluc said:

So what , Americans are just supposed to wait around for another nut job with a gun to kill more innocent people just so the NRA and it's followers can make another speech about how this is being looked into.

Click to expand...

Why are you so fixated on the NRA?

Question; when did the shooter buy the guns at the pawn shop before the Virginia tech murders?
Question ;was the shooter from the Virginia Tech murders ever stopped by the police before the murders?

Click to expand...

Why don't you enlighten us?

This was a cover up but 20 kids 6 yrs old is going to be a bit more difficult to cover up.eace

Click to expand...

I don't see anyone trying to cover this up. Personally, I'd like to find a way to make sure these things don't happen again. Attacking firearm possession just isn't going to do that.

Fisher said:

Mainstreaming mentally handicapped kids into the classroom to the detriment of
other students so they do not feel different is coddling to me. If you are concerned about homeless mental patients, then you should support institutionalizing them and we can both be satisfied.

Click to expand...

There are mentally ill and there are Aspergers kids who by all accounts usually possess much higher IQs then their non- Aspy peers.

I get it if they are so impaired a classroom would have to slow down for them but my second boy who's diagnosed Aspy thinks the accelerated gifted courses hes been in since 2cnd grade are a joke.

This killer was pointed out as being a Aspy when his actions totally contradict whats expected from kids with the condition.

Beleive it or not personality disorders are so prevalent in our society. A girl who's histrionic is going to do far mar damage to herself and others throughout her life than any aspie kid but in HS might be the head of the Cheerleading squad and voted most likely to be successful.

presluc said:

First of all check the post again I responded to your post .
Your response to my post is responding to your post???

How come everytime any American ask for better stronger gun control somebody always says some crap like "youre takin away ore guns" or "frum ma ded cold hands" or some **** like that.

You yourself said "weeding out the nut jobs" did you not?

In the current system of gun sales this apparently is not working. history has proven that.
So we ask for a different system to keep innocent people and kids from being shot and killed.
What do we get flyers from the NRA AND CATCH PHRASES FROM GUN OWNERS?????eace

Click to expand...

Connecticut already has the fourth most stringent gun ownership regulations of the 50 states.

Next.

Medusa said:

this carnage points to the importance of death penalty..



26 reported killed in Newtown, Conn., school shooting

NEWTOWN, Conn. -- A lone gunman killed 26 people at an elementary school here, including 18 children, in a terrifying early Friday morning shooting spree.

The Associated Press and local media reported the shooter, a 24-year-old male identified by CNN as Ryan Lanza, was also dead inside Sandy Hook Elementary School. A second person was in custody and undergoing questioning. At least three weapons were recovered at the scene, including a .223-caliber assault rifle and two semi-automatic handguns.

Mayor Mark Boughton said several victims had been taken to local hospitals.

Groups of students — some crying, some holding hands — were escorted from the school by teachers. Some witnesses reported of up to 100 shots. There were unconfirmed reports that the assailant, dressed in military style assault gear, shot most of the victims in a kindergarten classroom.
importance of death penalty..



26 reported killed in Newtown, Conn., school shooting

Click to expand...

I'm tired. It's been a long day. I killed a squirrel that ran under my car on the way to work and he's the only one I know who had a worse day than I did. So, I misread this headline and thought it said '26 REPORTERS killed.' Yes, my unconscious somehow said that to me.

presluc said:

How come everytime any American ask for better stronger gun control somebody always says some crap like "youre takin away ore guns" or "frum ma ded cold hands" or some **** like that.

Click to expand...

Because you're threatening their freedom in order to impose ineffective laws. It was already illegal to possess a firearm in that school, somehow this criminal managed to ignore the laws. Only the naive are confounded by this.

If a gun free zone didn't work, none of "solutions" will.

Liberals. You will never be able to grasp the logic, but here goes.

The problem that we can solve inside such as Sandy Point School is that only the criminal was armed.

Fenton said:

There are mentally ill and there are Aspergers kids who by all accounts usually possess much higher IQs then their non- Aspy peers.

I get it if they are so impaired a classroom would have to slow down for them but my second boy who's diagnosed Aspy thinks the accelerated gifted courses hes been in since 2cnd grade are a joke.

This killer was pointed out as being a Aspy when his actions totally contradict whats expected from kids with the condition.

Beleive it or not personality disorders are so prevalent in our society. A girl who's histrionic is going to do far mar damage to herself and others throughout her life than any aspie kid but in HS might be the head of the Cheerleading squad and voted most likely to be successful.

Click to expand...

We really do not know a lot of detail but he apparently had a checkered past which should have thrown up red flags. Everything I have read indicates that these mass killings are usually thoroughly planned out well ahead of time and are the culmination of a long downward spiral. This kid was apparently very obsessive from little hints here and there in the reporting. There was a kid in my college dorm who we used to toy with because he was a friend of ours but would become almost dysfuntional if everything was not in its exact place and in its exact order until he got it back where it belonged. He just couldn't focus on anything else if you moved anything out of its place until he put it back in its right position, including where pencils were on a desk top. My guy never made it too obvious. It was just something we noticed and tested our theory repeatedly. If we were bored we's just move stuff around and watch him subtly move it back. It sounds to me like the shooter may have had the same type issue but lost control.

Ikari said:

Heheh, the same could be said for having kids.

Click to expand...

Distraction;a bit of an old tactic for people that want to make it easy to buy a gun isn't it?
Agreed but having kids is not the same as killing kids.

I have always been a strong supporter of abortion.

Most are born with the anatomy to have children.
You are not born with a gun.
That you have to buy; how easy to buy or have access to, that is the question here?eace

presluc said:

Distraction;a bit of an old tactic for people that want to make it easy to buy a gun isn't it?
Agreed but having kids is not the same as killing kids.

I have always been a strong supporter of abortion.

Most are born with the anatomy to have children.
You are not born with a gun.
That you have to buy; how easy to buy or have access to, that is the question here?eace

Click to expand...

Exceedingly easy as it's a right; that is the answer here.

mac said:

They'd check your credit score. What does your credit score say about your mental state?



Arrest Record, Credit Score, and proof of employment. If you think that is an extensive check, you need to apply for a security clearance.



The check your arrest record.



No, the guns were legally purchased and stolen from the person that legally purchased them .

Click to expand...

Because mentally ill people usually don't have a high credit score.

Exactly my point, thank you.
Question do you believe that every person that bought a gun leagally would pass a security clearence, think hard now.

The Virginia Tech murderer had an arrest record yet he bought 2 glocks from a pawn shop.


If a person buys a gun who should be responsible for where that gun winds up?eace

Middleground said:

American mentality is mostly much different than the rest of the world.

Click to expand...

Historically, Americans felt more comfortable when political power was diffused and vested directly with the people. This explains some of the populist sentiment that has appeared at various points through our history, including the current Tea Party movement. Although they're fiercely patriotic, Americans also held a basic mistrust of a large, powerful central government. They believed in local community for achieving common goals but self-reliance and family when it came to their personal affairs. I think this is changing somewhat, however. It seems as though the "European Disease"--a nanny state that takes care of all your needs--is, unfortunately, creeping more and more in the national psyche.

Middleground said:

I will never in a million years understand the American love of the gun.

Click to expand...

I can't exaplin it, either. We love our guns. Don't **** with 'em.

Middleground said:

Compared to most other civilized countries in the world, death by gunshot is a statistic that Americans should not be proud of.

Click to expand...

What civilized countries are you talking about? The ones that spent much of their history in a constant state of warfare, culminating with the ones that initiated two World Wars? Or the ones that stood by during the slaughter that took place on their own doorstep in the Balkans only a few short years ago while we cleaned it up?

Anyway, we're not proud of death by gun, but neither should we be proud of the way Hollywood and popular media today glamorize firearms and engage in a race to see who can have the most shock value or be the most vulgar. We bombard our youth daily with a lot of filth, and it's hard to believe it doesn't affect them in some fundamental way, and not for the better. I'm not saying that's what caused the rampage in Connecticut, but it seems symptomatic of a moral void that's permeating our society. If we're going to have a meaningful discussion on "gun violence," then maybe a good place to start is with the way hypocrites in Hollywood depict guns and violence. The most recent example is the new Quentin Tarantino movie, Django Unchained, set to open most inappropriately on the day that's supposed to celebrate love and peace: Christmas. Yeah, Merry ****ing Christmas, asshole.

Middleground said:

And if you think it has to do with "moral decency," this has been going on for a very long time. Like you healthcare, please try not to make things more difficult than they should be.

Click to expand...

This phenomenon isn't unique to the U.S. A few examples:

July 22, 2011: Confessed mass killer Anders Behring Breivik kills 77 in Norway in twin attacks: a bombing in downtown Oslo and a shooting massacre at a youth camp outside the capital. The self-styled anti-Muslim militant admitted both attacks.

Sept. 23, 2008: Matti Saari, 22, walks into a vocational college in Kauhajoki, Finland, and opens fire, killing 10 people and burning their bodies with firebombs before shooting himself fatally in the head.

June 8, 2008: Tomohiro Katō hits a crowd with a truck, eventually killing three people and injuring two; he then stabs at least 12 people using a dagger (initially reported as a survival knife, killing four people and injuring eight.

Nov. 7, 2007: After revealing plans for his attack in YouTube postings, 18-year-old Pekka-Eric Auvinen fires kills eight people at his high school in Tuusula, Finland.

April 26, 2002: Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, who had been expelled from school in Erfurt, Germany, kills 13 teachers, two former classmates and policeman, before committing suicide.

June 8, 2001: Mamoru Takum, 37, enters Ikeda Elementary School in Osaka, Jaoan and kills eight children, mostly between the ages of seven and eight, and seriously woundsthirteen other children and two teachers with a kitchen knife.

April 28, 1996: Martin Bryant, 29, bursts into cafeteria in seaside resort of Port Arthur in Tasmania, Australia, shooting 20 people to death. Driving away, he kills 15 others. He was captured and imprisoned.

March 13, 1996: Thomas Hamilton, 43, kills 16 kindergarten children and their teacher in elementary school in Dunblane, Scotland, and then kills himself.

Aug. 19, 1987: Michael Ryan, 27, kills 16 people in small market town of Hungerford, England, and then shoots himself dead after being cornered by police.

So what's your easy solution? Mexico's, where the only people who seem to have weapons are thugs and drug cartels while everyone else if left defenseless?

Fisher said:

What I am saying is that until we attack violence people need guns to protect themselves. Crack Addicts are not well-known abiders of the law to begin with so outlawing guns and doing nothing about violence is comparable to, well, about most things liberals do. Buying their non-violence with "crazy checks" as they are known on the skreets ain't working so well. Regardless, the 2nd Amendment is what it is.

Click to expand...

Why is it when people ask for tougher gun control the 2nd amendment is automaticaly brought up.

Most people know the second amendment, but that doesn't give it a free ride just because the NRA EXIST.

American rights don't stop at the 2nd amendment we have others.
The right of free press , but you can't just print anything.
the right of speech, but if you yell Fire in a crowded public place and there is no fire WELL?
The right of entertainment , but LOCAL CHANNELS ARE CENSORED.
THE RIGHT TO TRAVEL BUT NOT TO WALK ON FREEWAYS.

So this isn't about abolishing the 2nd amendment.
Crazy people are not allowed on school yards but they can get their hands on a gun.
Violent people do not hold jobs in public places but they can buy a gun leagaly.
CHECKS AND BALANCES ARE ALL THROUGH SOCIETY EXCEPT GUN CONTROL

Question; if a person needs an AK47 to go hunting with , he evidently can't shoot worth a damn so why bother?eace

presluc said:

Question; if a person needs an AK47 to go hunting with , he evidently can't shoot worth a damn so why bother?eace

Click to expand...

Question: Why is it your business?

mac said:

Why are you so fixated on the NRA?



Why don't you enlighten us?



I don't see anyone trying to cover this up. Personally, I'd like to find a way to make sure these things don't happen again. Attacking firearm possession just isn't going to do that.

Click to expand...

Heard from the NRA lately?
No and you won't for awhile college students is one thing, movie goers is another even teenagers maybe , but 6 year olds , this ain't gonna slide that easy there's a lot of angry people out here and they ain't gun owners,

What am I a secretary, anyway youv;e questioned every statement I've made I've answered.

Already been suggested and rejected by you stiffer gun control stronger background checks.eace

Eighty Deuce said:

Connecticut already has the fourth most stringent gun ownership regulations of the 50 states.

Next.

Click to expand...

4 don't measure up to 26 dead., and all 50 states not just Connecticut.eace

Lachean said:

Because you're threatening their freedom in order to impose ineffective laws. It was already illegal to possess a firearm in that school, somehow this criminal managed to ignore the laws. Only the naive are confounded by this.

If a gun free zone didn't work, none of "solutions" will.

Click to expand...

Are you telling me there is no possible way for guns to have a strickter gun control on the sales of guns?

What of the freedom of the 26 dead in Conn?
Did they not have the freedom to live.eace

Ikari said:

Exceedingly easy as it's a right; that is the answer here.

Click to expand...

TOO EASY AND TOO BAD FOR FOR THE 26 dead in Conn..

What price are privacy and rights?eace

presluc said:

TOO EASY AND TOO BAD FOR FOR THE 26 dead in Conn..

What price are privacy and rights?eace

Click to expand...

More open gun laws and carry laws would cause more than those 26 to have been killed. But rights and freedom always makes for a dangerous society. Free is not, free never has been, and free never will be safe. It's about time some of y'all beat that into your skulls.

Ikari said:

Question: Why is it your business?

Click to expand...

Additionally, he's assuming that this person going hunting with an AK47 is going to magdump into the hunted animal.

Which would be stupid and probably fail.

Ikari said:

Question: Why is it your business?

Click to expand...

If known drug dealers move into a house next to a school why would it be anybody's business.

If known child molestors got a job a coaching PHYS ED and counciling at your kids school would it become your business?

Is society to just keep turning a blind eye, because sooner or later this stuff that society keeps turning a blind eye to will land on every American's door again and again including your's, my friend.eace

Ikari said:

More open gun laws and carry laws would cause more than those 26 to have been killed. But rights and freedom always makes for a dangerous society. Free is not, free never has been, and free never will be safe. It's about time some of y'all beat that into your skulls.

Click to expand...

Ah, not the old "FREEDOM AIN'T FREE SPEECH" MAN THAT'S ANCIENT.

I can not speak for others who ask for stronger gun control but I ALREADY KNOW THAT FREEDOM AIN'T FREE.
ANY VETERAN OR THOSE IN MILITARY SERVICE CAN TELL YOU THAT.
The sacrifices for freedom have been many and dear to any REAL AMERICAN.
However asking for a tougher gun control in society is too big a sacrifice for some?


What that has to do with killing innocent people cause it's easier to buy a gun I have no idea.
What that has to do with the killings at Aurora, Columbine, Virginia Tech, or the 20 6 yr olds in Conn., that I do not know?

What saying "FREEDOM ISN'T FREE;" has to do with asking for stronger and stiffer gun control, that I do not know?

6 year old children have nothing to do with the defence of Freedom.eace