‘Numerous’ officers shot. (2 Viewers)

[Rich2018]

The us does not have universal healthcare as most other countries do.

Irrelevant

As the facts show that mental health is not the major contributing factor in mass shootings, as the USA has better, comparable or near comparable mental healthcare than many countries with a WAY lower number of mass shootings
Indeed the number of mass shootings in the USA absolutely DWARFS the rest of the world put together

It's absolute nonsense to blame lack of mental health care for the ASTRONOMICALLY large disparity in mass shootings between the USA and the REST OF THE WORLD PUT TOGETHER

Sorry jaeger, but that dog don't hunt

But you know, there is something else that the USA leads the rest of the world put together in ?
Care to guess what it might be ?

 

[RF667799]

Irrelevant

As the facts show that mental health is not the major contributing factor in mass shootings, as the USA has better, comparable or near comparable mental healthcare than many countries with a WAY lower number of mass shootings
Indeed the number of mass shootings in the USA absolutely DWARFS the rest of the world put together

It's absolute nonsense to blame lack of mental health care for the ASTRONOMICALLY large disparity in mass shootings between the USA and the REST OF THE WORLD PUT TOGETHER

Sorry jaeger, but that dog don't hunt

But you know, there is something else that the USA leads the rest of the world put together in ?
Care to guess what it might be ?

He wrote a lengthy post that you edited to one sentence.

You missed the salient question at the end.

 

[jaeger19]

Irrelevant

As the facts show that mental health is not the major contributing factor in mass shootings, as the USA has better, comparable or near comparable mental healthcare than many countries with a WAY lower number of mass shootings
Indeed the number of mass shootings in the USA absolutely DWARFS the rest of the world put together

It's absolute nonsense to blame lack of mental health care for the ASTRONOMICALLY large disparity in mass shootings between the USA and the REST OF THE WORLD PUT TOGETHER

Sorry jaeger, but that dog don't hunt

But you know, there is something else that the USA leads the rest of the world put together in ?
Care to guess what it might be ?

Um no.
The facts as cited are.
The mass shooters overwhelmingly had severe mental health problems..
Far more incidence of mental health than occurs in the general public.

Of these with mental heath issues the vast vast majority were not medicated properly.

The us unlike most other countries .DOES NOT have universal healthcare which leaves many without access to mental health services. Then there is tge rural aspect..social safety nets ..etc that make the us an outlier.

Now some ignorant boobs will say.." but but it's the guns".
Well. One..ask these folks the physiological reaction between firearms and humans that causes a human to be a mass killer..and they clam right up.

And while we are an outlier when it comes to universal healthcare..and we an outlier when it comes to mass shootings.

We aren't that outlier when it comes to guns.

Yep. We have a lot..but so does canada..so does New Zealand. So does Norway..so does Australia..
Germany.

Why are these countries not rife with mass shootings if " its the guns"?

Because it's not the guns. It's things like mental health which CAN cause violent tendencies..while a firearm cannot.

All the above countries have universal healthcare..

While the us does not.

That explains mass shootings in the us far more than..." it's the guns".

 

[Rich2018]

The mass shooters overwhelmingly had severe mental health problems..
Far more incidence of mental health than occurs in the general public.

Be that as it may, but why does the USA have literally HUNDREDS of mass shootings when countries with lesser, comparable or near comparable mental healthcare have next to none ?

Sorry jaeger, you're trying to make a ridiculously stupid deflection that if only the USA would spend a few more dollars on mental healthcare, you could keep your guns without calls to ban them every time there's a mass shooting (which is more that ONCE PER DAY)
The USA has way more mass shootings, per year, than the REST OF THE WORLD put together

That dog don't hunt
Try again Ace....what else might be the major contributing factor? What else does the USA lead the world in BY FAR ????????????????

Do you need three guesses ?

 

[RF667799]

Be that as it may, but why does the USA have literally HUNDREDS of mass shootings when countries with lesser, comparable or near comparable mental healthcare have next to none ?

Sorry jaeger, you're trying to make a ridiculously stupid deflection that if only the USA would spend a few more dollars on mental healthcare, you could keep your guns without calls to ban them every time there's a mass shooting (which is more that ONCE PER DAY)
The USA has way more mass shootings, per year, than the REST OF THE WORLD put together

That dog don't hunt
Try again Ace....what else might be the major contributing factor? What else does the USA lead the world in BY FAR ????????????????

Do you need three guesses ?

Tolerating ingratitude. We lead the world.

 

[jaeger19]

Be that as it may, but why does the USA have literally HUNDREDS of mass shootings when countries with lesser, comparable or near comparable mental healthcare have next to none ?

Sorry jaeger, you're trying to make a ridiculously stupid deflection that if only the USA would spend a few more dollars on mental healthcare, you could keep your guns without calls to ban them every time there's a mass shooting (which is more that ONCE PER DAY)
The USA has way more mass shootings, per year, than the REST OF THE WORLD put together

That dog don't hunt
Try again Ace....what else might be the major contributing factor? What else does the USA lead the world in BY FAR ????????????????

Do you need three guesses ?

Because those countries HAVE BETTER ACCESS TO CARE you ridiculous dude.

That's the difference ..UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE.

why do countries with tons if guns

Like canada..norway..new zealand Germany have so few?

What's the outlier..oh h
Yeah..the us doesn't have universal healthcare while Canada. Germany norway..do.


Rich. How does banning my guns stop mass killings.
Explain it to me.
My family has firearms for generations. Over 100 years of firearm ownership.
NOT ONCE has any firearm we've owned EVER been in a mass shooting.
So you explain how banning my guns is going to work.

Then you explain..
Why addressing the mental health of these folks..who overwhelmingly had mental health problems and overwhelmingly WETE NOT GETTING APPROPRIATE TREATMENT.

you explain why these folks getting proper treatment WOULD NOT HAVE REDUCED TGE CHANCES OF THEM BEING A MASS KILLER?.

YOU EXPLAIN RICH HOW GUNS CAUSE PEOPLE TO BE MASS KILLERS!!!!!

DO IT.

 

[Rich2018]

Because those countries HAVE BETTER ACCESS TO CARE you ridiculous dude.

Not all, some have worse, some are comparable and some are near comparable

You seem to think there's some magic amount of available mental healthcare that guarantees low/negligible amount of mass shootings, and any less results in the levels of mass shootings per capita seen in the USA

Sorry Haus, the world doesn't work like that

The USA has more mass shootings than the rest of the world put together. A LOT more - not even close
And you're trying to say that if the USA were to climb just a few places in the world mental health rankings, then like magic the USA would have the same level of mass shootings as say the UK or Canada ?

And you have the nerve to talk about being "ridiculous" ???????????????????????????????

Jesus
SMH

You're on the same level as Sidney Powell claiming proof of the 2020 election being stolen based on an e-mail, from a decapitated time traveler, or Margery Taylor Green blaming Jewish space lasers for Californian wild fires.

 

[RF667799]

Not all, some have worse, some are comparable and some are near comparable

You seem to think there's some magic amount of available mental healthcare that guarantees low/negligible amount of mass shootings, and any less results in the levels of mass shootings per capita seen in the USA

Sorry Haus, the world doesn't work like that

The USA has more mass shootings than the rest of the world put together. A LOT more - not even close
And you're trying to say that if the USA were to climb just a few places in the world mental health rankings, then like magic the USA would have the same level of mass shootings as say the UK or Canada ?

And you have the nerve to talk about being "ridiculous" ???????????????????????????????

Jesus
SMH

You're on the same level as Sidney Powell claiming proof of the 2020 election being stolen based on an e-mail, from a decapitated time traveler, or Margery Taylor Green blaming Jewish space lasers for Californian wild fires.

So you've disposed of "guns" and "mental health" as cause.

Then what's your theory as to cause of mass shootings?

 

[jaeger19]

Not all, some have worse, some are comparable and some are near comparable

You seem to think there's some magic amount of available mental healthcare that guarantees low/negligible amount of mass shootings, and any less results in the levels of mass shootings per capita seen in the USA

Sorry Haus, the world doesn't work like that

The USA has more mass shootings than the rest of the world put together. A LOT more - not even close
And you're trying to say that if the USA were to climb just a few places in the world mental health rankings, then like magic the USA would have the same level of mass shootings as say the UK or Canada ?

And you have the nerve to talk about being "ridiculous" ???????????????????????????????

Jesus
SMH

You're on the same level as Sidney Powell claiming proof of the 2020 election being stolen based on an e-mail, from a decapitated time traveler, or Margery Taylor Green blaming Jewish space lasers for Californian wild fires.

Listen ridiculous dude. When 87% of mass shooters have mental health issues And nearly all of those were NOT medicated appropriately..
It stands to reason..to ANY objective and logical person that getting those people the help they needed could have reduced the number.

Now. When other countries have diverse gun ownership..like Canada. Germany..etc..but low mass shootings as well..
Well what is the difference between them and us that could cause a person to want to be a mass killer. ?

They all have universal heakthcare where we do not

Frankly we could have tge best healthcare in the world. But if a person can't access it. It doesn't matter how good it is.

If course there could be and probably is other issues pertaining to the causes of mass killers.

Maybe it's lack of social safety nets..as tge us is behind tge rest of the world.
Perhaps it's coycatting.
Mayne they are not accessing mental health because of lack of facilities..
Or perhaps stigma.

However..the one thing that is NOT causing people to be a mass killer is firearms.

Sorry rich... but my hypothesis makes a ton of sense.

You however have failed to offer an alternative theory of what causes Americans to be more likly to be mass killers.

So get to it

Let's see your alternative theory and tge evidence you have behind it.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

The best gun for deer hunting the terrain on my property is an AR chambered in 350 legend my son uses and my AR chambered in 450 bushmaster.

Unless you are in a jurisdiction that requires straight-walled cartridges, you might get better results from an AR-10 chambered in .308 Winchester. Loaded with 180-grain rounds in case you come across an unfriendly bear.

An HK-91 or FN-FAL in the same caliber would work just as well. I think with all three designs there are companies that make decent reproductions.

 

[rahl]

Unless you are in a jurisdiction that requires straight-walled cartridges, you might get better results from an AR-10 chambered in .308 Winchester. Loaded with 180-grain rounds in case you come across an unfriendly bear.

Not on my property. Max shot is 100 yards. My main deer rifle for many years there was a 7mm rem mag. But we aren’t able to hunt a lot of the areas we used to, so I can’t stretch out to 200-500 yards like I used to. The 350 legend or 450 bushmaster is far superior at the 100 yard and in distances of my property.

An HK-91 or FN-FAL in the same caliber would work just as well. I think with all three designs there are companies that make decent reproductions.

Absolutely

 

[Rich2018]

When 87% of mass shooters have mental health issues And nearly all of those were NOT medicated appropriately..

Irrelevant
As proven by the fact that countries with poorer mental healthcare than the USA have few or no mass shootings, while the USA counts its mass shootings in the HUNDREDS

QED: mental healthcare has little or no relevance to the number of mass shootings a country experiences

Are you ready to answer yet ?
What does the USA lead the world in, that is essential for people looking to commit a mass shooting ?

 

[RF667799]

Irrelevant
As proven by the fact that countries with poorer mental healthcare than the USA have few or no mass shootings, while the USA counts its mass shootings in the HUNDREDS

QED: mental healthcare has little or no relevance to the number of mass shootings a country experiences

Are you ready to answer yet ?
What does the USA lead the world in, that is essential for people looking to commit a mass shooting ?

People looking to commit a mass shooting.

 

[jaeger19]

Irrelevant
As proven by the fact that countries with poorer mental healthcare than the USA have few or no mass shootings, while the USA counts its mass shootings in the HUNDREDS

QED: mental healthcare has little or no relevance to the number of mass shootings a country experiences

Are you ready to answer yet ?
What does the USA lead the world in, that is essential for people looking to commit a mass shooting ?

Nope. Completely relevant.
You just don't want to face facts.

I already answered rich. The us has lots and lots and lots of those evil guns..
As does Canada ..and
Germany..and New Zealand..and Norway..

Now rich..tell us how firearms make people become mass killers

 

[Rich2018]

Nope. Completely relevant.
You just don't want to face facts.

Nope, the level of mental healthcare is shown to be a complete "Red Herring", by the facts
That the USA has better, comparable or near comparable mental healthcare than MANY countries with little or no mass shootings (including peer countries like Australia)

QED: the provision of mental healthcare, while desirable, is not some "magical" panacea that would eradicate or even significantly reduce the number of mass shootings

You just desperately want that to be the case rather than face up to the truth.

 

[jaeger19]

Nope, the level of mental healthcare is shown to be a complete "Red Herring", by the facts
That the USA has better, comparable or near comparable mental healthcare than MANY countries with little or no mass shootings (including peer countries like Australia)

QED: the provision of mental healthcare, while desirable, is not some "magical" panacea that would eradicate or even significantly reduce the number of mass shootings

You just desperately want that to be the case rather than face up to the truth.

Sorry rich but the facts don't show its a " red herring"

Observational Study
Domestic Mass Shooters: The Association With Unmedicated and Untreated Psychiatric Illness
Ira D Glick et al. J Clin Psychopharmacology

Domestic Mass Shooters: The Association With Unmedicated and Untreated Psychiatric Illness - PubMed

A significant proportion of mass shooters experienced unmedicated and untreated psychiatric disorder.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Observational Study
A Retrospective Observational Study of Psychosocial Determinants and Psychiatric Diagnoses of Mass Shooters in the United States
Nina E Cerfolio et al. Psychodyn Psychiatry. 2022 Fall.

A Retrospective Observational Study of Psychosocial Determinants and Psychiatric Diagnoses of Mass Shooters in the United States - PubMed

Our aim was to better understand the underlying psychiatric, psychosocial, and psychodynamic aspects of mass shootings in the United States (US). The Mother Jones database of 115 mass shootings from 1982-2019 was used to study retrospectively 55 shooters in the US. After developing a...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The majority of assailants (87.5%) had misdiagnosed and incorrectly treated or undiagnosed and untreated psychiatric illness".

Please explain rich why you believe that if these 87% of mass shooters HAD received proper medical treatment..thet still would have committed murder..

Citations of research would be nice.

What truth do you want me to face up to?

That guns don't cause crime?
That taking my firearms will not reduce mass shootings.
?

 

[Rich2018]

Because those countries HAVE BETTER ACCESS TO CARE you ridiculous dude.

Nope

As stated they either have lesser, comparable or near comparable mental healthcare, to the USA
But while the USA numbers its annual mass shootings in the hundreds, those other countries have few or no mass shootings

This PROVES, beyond any reasonable doubt, that the provision of mental healthcare, while desirable, is not some "magical" panacea that would eradicate or even significantly reduce the number of mass shootings
It is just some fantasy "smoke screen" that you hope will disguise the truth

As I said, you just desperately want it to be the case, that merely by spending more on mental healthcare, you can remove any and all calls/threats to your guns
As an excuse it's as lame as the other lie that the pro-gun lobby spreads, namely that we have all the gun control laws we need, they're just not enforced

Both are ridiculous lies that you use as a both a mental blindfold and metal crutch, rater than face up to the truth.

 

[jaeger19]

Nope

As stated they either have lesser, comparable or near comparable mental healthcare, to the USA
But while the USA numbers its annual mass shootings in the hundreds, those other countries have few or no mass shootings

This PROVES, beyond any reasonable doubt, that the provision of mental healthcare, while desirable, is not some "magical" panacea that would eradicate or even significantly reduce the number of mass shootings
It is just some fantasy "smoke screen" that you hope will disguise the truth

As I said, you just desperately want it to be the case, that merely by spending more on mental healthcare, you can remove any and all calls/threats to your guns
As an excuse it's as lame as the other lie that the pro-gun lobby spreads, namely that we have all the gun control laws we need, they're just not enforced

Both are ridiculous lies that you use as a both a mental blindfold and metal crutch, rater than face up to the truth.

Rich..you keep saying they have comparable healthcare when they only do...when it's accessible.

Rich..do you contend that a person in the us without any health insurance..will get tge same level of heathcare as a person with government insurance in canada..the uk..Germany or New Zealand?


You don't seem to have the ability to understand that.

Rich..just show me why you believe that if that 87% of mass shooters had received adequate mental healthcare ...they still would have committed mass murder.

Explain why Germany Canada new zealand norway..Finland are not overwhelmed with mass shootings

You are desperate to not believe the facts.

87 % of mass shooters had mental health issues And were not being treated appropriately.
DO YOU THINK THATS JUST A COINCIDENCE?

I'd so..then what is your hypothesis on why people become mass killers in the us?

 

[Rich2018]

...you keep saying they have comparable healthcare when they only do...when it's accessible.

Comparable mental healthcare according to YOUR own cited sources.

...do you contend that a person in the us without any health insurance..will get tge same level of heathcare as a person with government insurance in canada..the uk..Germany or New Zealand?

Do you contend that a person in Germany, without medical insurance, will get the same level of heath care as someone in the USA who HAS medical insurance ?

....just show me why you believe that if that 87% of mass shooters had received adequate mental healthcare ...they still would have committed mass murder.

Show me the proportion of murderers in the UK that received adequate mental health care.

Explain why Germany Canada new zealand norway..Finland are not overwhelmed with mass shootings

Because mass shootings are the result of two factors (at least in Western Democracies).
High Crime AND the relative availability of guns.

You are desperate to not believe the facts.

No, you're desperately trying to convert your "smokescreen" lies regarding the causes of mass shootings, into "facts"

87 % of mass shooters had mental health issues And were not being treated appropriately.
DO YOU THINK THATS JUST A COINCIDENCE?

No
But then I think that most murderers also have a form of mental illness - and Britain's universal health care doesn't prevent murders

Greater mental health care in the USA might affect the number of mass shootings at the margin
But it won't significantly reduce their number (604 in 2023) to anywhere close to other countries listed above the USA, on your mental health care rankings.