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The bomb buried in obamacare! (1 Viewer)

Cost neutral....were all paying at higher rates for the medical of all the uninsured already

Not cost neutral.

If I choose to not have medical insurance, I am not paying for the other uninsured either. If the government picks up the tab...especially when it doesn't have the money to pay the tab...NOW it's costing me.
 
You hit it right on the noggin hugh...the problem is the only thing weve ever heard from republicans is let them eat cake...when pelosi was creating this fiasco they offered nothing...they just said NO NO NO...they are just as much to blame as democrats....but at least democrats did try to do something...and not just callously brush off 40 million people because they were rich.

I guess you weren't listening.

When Obama and his buddies were creating this fiasco the Republicans were proposing their alternatives...and they were ignored.

For sure, the Republicans said NO NO NO to Obamacare...as they should have. Unfortunately, the Democrats...who had a majority...ignored the no's as well.

The result? We are living it.
 
Cost neutral....were all paying at higher rates for the medical of all the uninsured already

That is nonsense. The PPACA adds many "free" minimum "preventive" care benefits to ALL; that can ONLY increase costs. The nonsense theory that medical care costs will not rise, the obese will then be slimmed down, the ER will be used correctly, that cancer will be detected much sooner and masses of people will no longer use tobacco and abuse alcohol and drugs is simply wishfull thinking. Look at the FACTS after this very same system was adopted in MA, as RomneyCare; the number of insured increased to nearly 100% but no miracle occurred at all: Massachusetts health care reform - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
I guess you weren't listening.

When Obama and his buddies were creating this fiasco the Republicans were proposing their alternatives...and they were ignored.

For sure, the Republicans said NO NO NO to Obamacare...as they should have. Unfortunately, the Democrats...who had a majority...ignored the no's as well.

The result? We are living it.

WHAT ALTERNATIVES?

The Ryan Plan was a bad deal for seniors. It would have made them worse off.
 
Here's an article that explains the issue better.

As per your statement, what will most likely happen is that insurers will stop offering certain plans and, if needed, lower the deductible (so more people reach the threshold of insurance payouts) while raising the premium.

The article claims that very few high deductable insurance companies reach the 80% or better payout rate. First off, I am not so sure that is correct, there was no resources or backup given for that claim, secondly, if that is true, then that means that I am being overcharged for my high deductable plan, and thus I will get a refund check (thats a good thing). But since my insurance is already sooo much cheaper than a "normal" plan, I find it hard to believe that I am being overcharged more than users of "normal" plans have been over charged.

Regardless, these articles are still based upon the theory that the pool of high deductable insurance customers is very small, and thats simply not true, it's in the millions of people and growing. If anything, if people are going to be required by law for not having insurance, many non-insured people will tend to get these inexpensive polices - because they are inexpensive and are the least objectionable type of policy for someone like me who doesn't like wasting money on something that they don't need. So we might very well see the pool of high deductable policies growing and thus eleminating the predictions made by the articles.

Just because you read something on the internet doesn't mean it's true. Those articles are obviously slanted against Obamacare, and who the heck is the author of those articles? Some unknown journalist, or a true unbiased expert in actuarial science?
 
Cost neutral....were all paying at higher rates for the medical of all the uninsured already

To an extent that is true, but many uninsured people just pay cash (or borrow) as they go. GE makes a lot of loans to the unisured through their "Carecredit" subsiderary, and they arn't the only financier of medical treatment.
 
I guess you weren't listening.

When Obama and his buddies were creating this fiasco the Republicans were proposing their alternatives...and they were ignored.

For sure, the Republicans said NO NO NO to Obamacare...as they should have. Unfortunately, the Democrats...who had a majority...ignored the no's as well.

The result? We are living it.

I offered up a plan to a republican congressman that would have provided private major medical insurance to every single citizen at not a dime of additional taxpayer expenses, and his eyes just glazed over. They guy did not have the intellectual capacity to understand the concepts that I was presenting, he had to keep defering to his assistant asking the assistant if what I was suggesting was mathmatically correct (which the assistant verified that I was correct). A few months later I was face to face with the same congressman and I asked him if he had given any more consideration to what I had presented, he just said "what was it that we discussed".

All though we need tort reform, and the other things that republicans suggested, those things would only shave a few percent of the cost off of healthcare, which isn't much when you consider that healthcare costs are at least double (sometimes 1000%) higher than what they would be if healthcare providers had to compete on price. The republican answers don't address the true "crises" with our healthcare system, which is the fact that our healthcare system does not exist in a price competitive free market capitalistic enviroment. Health care in America is insulated within the cacoon of insurance which protects it from the price moderating element of competition.
 
To an extent that is true, but many uninsured people just pay cash (or borrow) as they go. GE makes a lot of loans to the unisured through their "Carecredit" subsiderary, and they arn't the only financier of medical treatment.

Uninsured as a total pay $30B+ in out-of-pocket expenses annually with an additional $55B in expenses covered by government. Yes, we are already paying for these current uninsured and those costs may be neutral but when all uninsured start using health care services because they now have it available costs will increase significantly.

I don't agree with Obama's plan. I would rather see the grossly inflated costs of health care generated by greedy insurance companies be reduced. They have monopolized health care by making it impossible to receive care without utilizing their services. With that said, Obama is the first one to even address the issue. Everyone else is complaining without providing any other solutions.
 
Still wrong. No one is getting "free HC". Medicaid was killed and most states are 100% agianst it even if paid 100% of costs.

And Jan 2014, I will remember your boast and contact you to collect all your property. (assuming you are under 400% of poverty)

Let's see, today is 7/4/2012 and Jan 2014 is 5 years from now? Your struggles with math explain your support for this bull**** legislation.
 
The article claims that very few high deductable insurance companies reach the 80% or better payout rate. First off, I am not so sure that is correct, there was no resources or backup given for that claim, secondly, if that is true, then that means that I am being overcharged for my high deductable plan, and thus I will get a refund check (thats a good thing). But since my insurance is already sooo much cheaper than a "normal" plan, I find it hard to believe that I am being overcharged more than users of "normal" plans have been over charged.

Regardless, these articles are still based upon the theory that the pool of high deductable insurance customers is very small, and thats simply not true, it's in the millions of people and growing. If anything, if people are going to be required by law for not having insurance, many non-insured people will tend to get these inexpensive polices - because they are inexpensive and are the least objectionable type of policy for someone like me who doesn't like wasting money on something that they don't need. So we might very well see the pool of high deductable policies growing and thus eleminating the predictions made by the articles.

I see what you're saying.

Just because you read something on the internet doesn't mean it's true.

Really? I had no idea. :roll:

Those articles are obviously slanted against Obamacare, and who the heck is the author of those articles? Some unknown journalist, or a true unbiased expert in actuarial science?

Supposedly the HSA council was the first to raise concerns.
 
The GOP had congress and the presidency for awhile. What did they do? Talk is cheap, show me action.

The Democrats had the entire Congress from 2006-2010, with a filibuster-proof supermajority for almost a year along with the Executive branch. Where was all that action then?
 
The Democrats had the entire Congress from 2006-2010, with a filibuster-proof supermajority for almost a year along with the Executive branch. Where was all that action then?

That's true, and they still allowed the tea party to get away with demonizing them into a corner. But, at the end, they still advanced further than republicans did. I only ask to show any reason to believe republicnas will advance health care refrom. They have shown by actions that they really do not intend to do anything unless forced to.
 
That's true, and they still allowed the tea party to get away with demonizing them into a corner.

So, let me get this straight.... when the Republicans are powerless to stop anything, they can still stop things. I see.

It appears that Democrats are just plain ineffective.
 
So, let me get this straight.... when the Republicans are powerless to stop anything, they can still stop things. I see.

It appears that Democrats are just plain ineffective.

No, you don't see. Republicans didn't even try. There's a difference between trying and failing, and not trying at all. Their history shows they will talk the talk on this, but never take a step.
 
That's true, and they still allowed the tea party to get away with demonizing them into a corner. But, at the end, they still advanced further than republicans did. I only ask to show any reason to believe republicnas will advance health care refrom. They have shown by actions that they really do not intend to do anything unless forced to.

Oh, really? Perhaps the fact that GOP plans can't even get debated, much less voted on, may have had a tiny effect on that.

http://news.investors.com/article/6...ants-to-solve-health-care-problems.htm?p=full

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GO...in;contentBody

Republicans Offer Health-Care Plan - WSJ.com

GOP plan compared to PPACA chart:
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/grap...omparison.aspx
 
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But ttwtt, you have to remember, the Republicans are the "Party of NO."
 

You mean when they had the all of congress and the presidency, they couldn't get debated? Be serious.
 
Let's see, today is 7/4/2012 and Jan 2014 is 5 years from now? Your struggles with math explain your support for this bull**** legislation.

5 years from now? LMAO said like a TRUE Conservative!!!! LMAO!!!!
Less than 18 months BTW.........
 

From the last link
on Boehner 2009 Bill.
"No (individuals without
coverage would be taxed)"
How is this any different from what we have end up now? Are the GOP being hypocrites or is Boehner a Dark Horse?

Maybe he and Rommney can have a tea party.
 
said like a true trailer park republican.

Have you read the bill?
What is your HC costs now? Do you know that your premium will go down?
Do you know that you cant be dumped?

Please stop making posts like this one about Hugh. Really. Please stop.
 
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