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More on the Bell Curve

PoS said:
Its more than just that, the Bell Curve gets lots of things wrong, such as completely ignoring the Flynn effect and believing that IQ scores are 100% heritable and dont change over time. All of this things are untrue.


Anyone who believes that IQ differences among different races is genetic in origin is a racist, so yes, he was since he believed it.


You obivously didnt read the book because thats what he indeed claimed.
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I think Murray says IQ is 100% inheritable which is what many took issue with and ties into his assumptions about race in his belief that IQ is unchangeable. He confuses heritability with inheritability much like Rushton does when he wasnt too busy measuring cumshots from students lol…
 
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And finally the thing that pisses me off about Murray is his willingness to lie for the pioneer fund. The pioneer fund has not changed, they only disagree with the nazis because they think the nazis tried to exterminate the wrong people. Thats not a change.
 
PoS said:
LOL of course you believe the racists own words!
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Let me guess, you've got ESP powers and and you're one of those remote viewers who knows what other people are thinking.

Why don't you show us some quotes that you falsely believe prove your point?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I’m not sure that the “so-called research was heavily biased” as it it still said (by many) that (any?) standardized testing is biased.



www.nea.org

The Racist Beginnings of Standardized Testing | NEA

From grade school to college, students of color have suffered from the effects of biased testing.
www.nea.org www.nea.org

IMHO, this conclusion of bias is (entirely?) based on the notion of an observed ‘disparate impact’ result (by race) being proof of racist policy and/or intent of the method (metric?) used to produce (measure?) it.

What seems to be (politically?) biased (based on wishful thinking alone?) is the idea that equality of opportunity will (or at least should) result in equality of outcome.
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Standardized testing is heavily biased.

Disparate outcomes by race means one of two things. 1) There is racial bias. 2) The race is not as able as the other groups. Which do you choose?

There is no expectation of equal outcome anywhere. It would be great if we could reach equal opportunity.
 
ashurbanipal said:
You know, people who are actually racist love to claim that they aren't whenever being racist isn't in vogue. One strategy they often use is exactly the one on display here--i.e. "you just don't understand what we're saying." Whether or not something is racist or not is evaluated on a pretty broad range of points and issues, only some of which are what the person making the possibly-racist claim says about the something in question. I've had people who state explicitly that black people should be enslaved to white people protest that they aren't racist because I just don't understand slavery.
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Since you claim to understand what other people are thinking, why don't you show us your proof instead of breathing heavily?
 
bomberfox said:
Its basically “the current status quo is due to generics and no amount of social programs will change it” basically racist pseudoscience.
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Never read any of the many studies on the failed "Head-Start" program have you? Nope. Yes, it does give students a boost but by the time they're in the 5th Grade it is as if they had never attended a head-start program.
bomberfox said:
If you believe in a racial hierarchy and seek to preserve it, thats what racism is
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I don't believe in it, but you apparently think that's what the author's were stating in their book, so why don't you give us a quote?
 
Jredbaron96 said:
So, you started a thread just to post that you think people should read the 1990s APA's response to the Bell Curve.

This is just plain bizarre and kinda stupid. It's like you're not even making a commentary on the Bell Curve itself.
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Or possibly It was posted to create a biased discussion of racism? Racism Trolls are rarely logical. The objective is to keep a racism discussion - any racism discussion about any event going. This seems to fit that mode.
 
Mircea said:
You haven't proven that he has.
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Ive proven it quite well in previous threads. This isnt even covering the dubious backers of his return to the 50s screed.
 
Mircea said:
Never read any of the many studies on the failed "Head-Start" program have you? Nope. Yes, it does give students a boost but by the time they're in the 5th Grade it is as if they had never attended a head-start program.


I don't believe in it, but you apparently think that's what the author's were stating in their book, so why don't you give us a quote?
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Yes i have read his studies, they are very lacking in key data points which if you extrapolate further than his cut off dates on multiple cognitive tests (from youth to adult) you can see there is no cut off point where improvement is made. Essentially what he does is he formulates a reactionary GOP ideology then does his best to match his pre conceived ideology which is exemplified in his cries about the downfall of white America.

This also isnt getting into the fact hes well in cahoots with the nazi eugenics organization the pioneer fund which he blithely excuses by “well they changed dur hurr” yeah they changed alright, they think the nazis exterminated the wrong race.

Basically a eugenics based ideological treatise to explain the status quo.
 
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bomberfox said:
Ive proven it quite well in previous threads. This isnt even covering the dubious backers of his return to the 50s screed.
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He means, you haven't proven it scientifically.
 
Mircea said:
Thanks for the two of you admitting you've never read the book.

We know you've never read the book because if you had read the book, then you'd also have read the author's conclusions.

The Bell Curve is not permanent, meaning no group is doomed by it. Cultures can and do progress.
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The bell curve’s point about race and IQ says otherwise.
 
bomberfox said:
And finally the thing that pisses me off about Murray is his willingness to lie for the pioneer fund. The pioneer fund has not changed, they only disagree with the nazis because they think the nazis tried to exterminate the wrong people. Thats not a change.
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https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Wickliffe_Draper

Wickliffe Draper - Wikipedia​

Wickliffe Preston Draper (August 9, 1891 - 1972) was an American political activist. He was an ardent eugenicist and lifelong advocate of strict racial segregation. In 1937, he founded the Pioneer Fund for eugenics and heredity research; he later became its principal benefactor. Early life and education

Linked to Draper, he paid American Bund leader Kuhn 's bail and appeared in court with him.

https://www.amazon.com › Coup-Dallas-Who-Killed-JFK-ebook › dp › B07B1M4FDP

Coup in Dallas: The Decisive Investigation into Who Killed JFK​

And who was Condon's Manchurian Candidate, none other than Anastase "Annie" Vonsiatsky George deM's boss who accompanied William Dudley Pelley from Russia to Harbin, Manchuria with the McCormick Reaper fortune in 1917. Pelley led the "Plot to Take the White House" from FDR written by Jules Archer.

en.wikipedia.org

Anastasy Vonsiatsky - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Sabotage! The Secret War Against America - Volume 2 - Page 73​

books.google.com › books

Michael Sayers, ‎Albert Eugene Kahn · 1942 · ‎Snippet view
Found inside – Page 73
... Thompson , Connecticut , Vonsiatsky set up a private arsenal of rifles , machine guns , tear gas grenades and other military equipment . Scores of uniformed swastika - wearing young men were soon receiving military training on Vonsiatsky's ...
 
post said:
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Wickliffe_Draper

Wickliffe Draper - Wikipedia​

Wickliffe Preston Draper (August 9, 1891 - 1972) was an American political activist. He was an ardent eugenicist and lifelong advocate of strict racial segregation. In 1937, he founded the Pioneer Fund for eugenics and heredity research; he later became its principal benefactor. Early life and education

Linked to Draper, he paid American Bund leader Kuhn 's bail and appeared in court with him.

https://www.amazon.com › Coup-Dallas-Who-Killed-JFK-ebook › dp › B07B1M4FDP

Coup in Dallas: The Decisive Investigation into Who Killed JFK​

And who was Condon's Manchurian Candidate, none other than Anastase "Annie" Vonsiatsky George deM's boss who accompanied William Dudley Pelley from Russia to Harbin, Manchuria with the McCormick Reaper fortune in 1917. Pelley led the "Plot to Take the White House" from FDR written by Jules Archer.

en.wikipedia.org

Anastasy Vonsiatsky - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Sabotage! The Secret War Against America - Volume 2 - Page 73​

books.google.com › books

Michael Sayers, ‎Albert Eugene Kahn · 1942 · ‎Snippet view
Found inside – Page 73
... Thompson , Connecticut , Vonsiatsky set up a private arsenal of rifles , machine guns , tear gas grenades and other military equipment . Scores of uniformed swastika - wearing young men were soon receiving military training on Vonsiatsky's ...
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bomberfox said:
Yes i have read his studies, ...
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I'm not talking about his studies. Why would I not use your own government's studies?

The impact study found that providing access to Head Start has a positive impact on children’s preschool experiences. Access to Head Start also has positive impacts on several aspects of children’s school readiness during their time in the program. However, the advantages children gained during their time in Head Start and up to age 4 yielded only a few statistically significant differences in outcomes at the end of 1st grade for the sample as a whole.

That is from your very own government.
 
reinaert said:
It's just not. You are wrong. It's okay to admit this.
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You better tell Babbel.

The process of combining morphemes to make new words is called agglutination. While English is somewhat agglutinative, German does it more. The German language can combine just about any noun into a new word too, even though it’s not fully agglutinative the way Turkish and Japanese are.

You do know what Babbel is, right? They teach languages.

What exactly do you do?
 
Mircea said:
I'm not talking about his studies. Why would I not use your own government's studies?

The impact study found that providing access to Head Start has a positive impact on children’s preschool experiences. Access to Head Start also has positive impacts on several aspects of children’s school readiness during their time in the program. However, the advantages children gained during their time in Head Start and up to age 4 yielded only a few statistically significant differences in outcomes at the end of 1st grade for the sample as a whole.

That is from your very own government.
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We are talking about the bell curve. Thats why… jeebus…
 
PoS said:
The Bell Curve was an example of piss poor science. It was a flawed study based on racist assumptions, and the so-called research was heavily biased.

The lesson learned here is that just because someone is labeled as a "scientist" doesnt automatically make them infallible, in fact they should be subjected to more scrutiny for that very reason.
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Scientist, unlike Engineers, have the benefit of doubt in their favor.

I prefer to deal with factual data, not hypothesis.
 
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