European leaders unite behind Ukraine following Trump-Zelenskyy confrontation

[Allan]

Europe is led by a host of fascists who can hardly be described as Democratic.

Well this is even dumber than usual.

 

[Brusan]

NATO countries think right leaning political parties are a threat as well as citizens who criticize their polticians. A jailable offense thoughout much of Europe. I could care less what they think.

The rest of the free world are getting an eyeful (and bellyful) of how "right leaning political parties" actually think and behave. You cannot criticize them for not liking what they're seeing.

Your country is certainly NOT the poster child for freedoms of the press and expression. Your turd-in-chief just drove that point home in the most graphic of examples by surrounding himself with a quisling press unable to ask tough questions for fear of being denied access. The toady asking the question about Zelenski's wardrobe choice being Exhibit "A'" of that degradation.

With your post also veritably confirming you DO care what they think.

 

[Allan]

The next NATO summit is on the calendar for June, 2025 at The Hague. I'm thinking the meeting will happen much earlier now that our allies have questions as to our commitment to honor Article 5.

Trump's wavered on this before, and what's clear is his view on Russia as a threat is very different than those of NATO nations. Trump thinks of global politics only in the context of deal making, which it partially is, but there are other leaders who go beyond just deal making. Putin is a good example of this. I don't think anyone can be blamed for not being as assured by deals with Russia and them actually sticking to them.

I expect two things will happen in the lead up to the NATO summit.

Trump will make lots of noise about his desire to leave NATO.

Trump will threaten not to abide by Article 5 for X reason(s).

During the meeting he'll bully the other members about. He'll make all kinds of demands and try to impose all manner of conditions if members ever expect Article 5 participation.

The other NATO members should tell him to get stuffed.

 

[ElChupacabra]

NATO countries think right leaning political parties are a threat as well as citizens who criticize their polticians. A jailable offense thoughout much of Europe. I could care less what they think.

Some are, and I'll assume you're referring to AfD. We have a different take here because we didn't go through what Germany did and start a world war. You're misconstruing the reference of critiques of politicians in Germany though, since their constitution protects that. What it doesn't protect is hate speech, and that's the difference between our version of it and theirs. While I understand the German government's efforts to try and police the internet, it's a dicey proposition, and mainly because bringing about civility requires more than just policing the internet. I give them more latitude because they are more sensitive to this given their recent history, but sometimes that over policing creates the very same sentiment that led to their problem almost 90 years ago.

 

[CimpleMan]

You can "want to end the war" but you can't strike a deal with Putin and Zelensky without Putin involved. We're well into this war now with 3 years and over a million lost lives.

Publicly stating and then going to Russia first to negotiate instead of our European allies and Ukraine was a mistake. ALL stake holders need to be involved in negotiations and security for Ukraine should be a priority.

Didn't say Trump should call out Putin as a Dictator. However, no need to sugar coat what Putin has done. Putin is not an ally of the US and it's troubling to many including me that Trump and many of his supporters seem think otherwise.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Publicly stating and then going to Russia first to negotiate instead of our European allies and Ukraine was a mistake. ALL stake holders need to be involved in negotiations and security for Ukraine should be a priority.

Yep, and a weird thing to do when the overly communicated position is "this is Europe's problem".

Didn't say Trump should call out Putin as a Dictator. However, no need to sugar coat what Putin has done. Putin is not an ally of the US and it's troubling to many including me that Trump and many of his supporters seem think otherwise.

The mistake Trump is making is he thinks this is solely about deal making, and seems to either not know or ignoring that Putin is keen on seeing the US diminished as a global power.

 

[holbritter]

Like I said. Liberals are some of the dishonest people on the planet.

Full video for all to see.

Can you give a time point to watch? I watched about 10 mins and nothing. I don't want to watch an hour of Trump patting himself on the back and talk about how great he is. TIA.

 

[anatta]

They have yet to find ANY new tactics. The old tried (and failed) narratives are very ingrained.

One thing you don't see from any of them, is even a suggestion of what they DO think should be worked on in terms of Ukraine - their own plan different from Trump's. They have not one idea or suggestion as to how the war can end or how the war can potentially be won by Ukraine. That might be taken as they just want it to go on as it has been because they've made no other suggestions or offered no other ideas.

they follow the Biden plan. endless war and blank checks

 

[Emlee]

Like I said. Liberals are some of the dishonest people on the planet.

Full video for all to see.

Not sure what you actually thought posting the video would change but I guess I should say thanks for showing that it doesn’t differ than from I said, and that your claim is still false.

It doesn’t show that “‘Zelensky first questioned Vance about what he knew about negotiations in a disrespectful way and it devolved from there”, as you falsely claimed.

The video shows how even more pathetic Vance and Trump were than the transcript shows.

It does show before it devolved that Zelensky was trying to say Putin can’t be trusted, that he had broken the cease fire in the past, he asked Vance what kind of diplomacy he was speaking about.

And it also shows what I said about Trump’s support of Putin. He simply can’t give even the slightest criticism of Putin. How pathetic a president of the United States actually claiming that Putin had to go through the Russia hoax. Everyone including republicans confirmed Russia’s interference.

Hey, you’re free to keep doubling down but you should probably give the laughable. ‘liberals are the most dishonest people on the planet’ act a rest.

 

[anatta]

In the context of the post WW2 global order, sure. The problem is Europe's always had a problem working together well, and even under the EU there are always issues between the member countries on this kind of larger strategy. What doesn't help the EU is they are not the military machine the US is, and scaling up to fill that void isn't going to happen overnight. The other factor here is what they can agree upon in actual support for Ukraine, and that will be determined once we're past the rhetoric phase we're in right now.

they need to put on their big boy pants and get it together

 

[trumptman]

Where does this "WWIII" bullcrap come from - Captain Bone Spurs sending the wind up your collective azzes.

The single greatest reason whey this has dragged out so long with Russia expending resources and manpower at rates it cannot sustain is because PUTIN thinks he has an ace in the hole -TRUMP. He was proven correct yesterday.

It comes from anyone with a brain.

The claim and rationale for support for Ukraine against Russia is that Russian aggression will not stop at Ukraine. It will continue on to NATO and when the United States has to protect NATO allies, we will be at WWIII.



Seriously can Liberals not even remember their own rationales for supporting all their wars anymore? Look at the map if it helps jog your memory.

 

[dairyair]

Total money spent by Europe is more than the U.S.

I figured that.
But what are the actual figures?

 

[dairyair]

You can "want to end the war" but you can't strike a deal with Putin and Zelensky without Putin involved. We're well into this war now with 3 years and over a million lost lives. The usefulness of calling Putin "a dictator who started the war" in the midst of an effort to bring the war to a negotiated end - escapes me.

By understanding how the war started and stating it doesn't help in figuring out how to end it?
Should everyone put head in sand? Not work on the reason the war started? Fixing the reason the war started?

If no one addresses the problem, how can it be fixed or ended?

 

[dairyair]

That's fine for those who already have or choose to take that view of Trump. (I'm referring to your second paragraph.)

If Zelensky doesn't want anything to do with Trump's plan to end the war, Trump will step out of this mix and your first sentence in the quote above will play out to whatever end it can.

Have you seen the plan to end the war?
What is it?

 

[anatta]

By understanding how the war started and stating it doesn't help in figuring out how to end it?
Should everyone put head in sand? Not work on the reason the war started? Fixing the reason the war started?

If no one addresses the problem, how can it be fixed or ended?

"security guarantees" lol

 

[dairyair]

It comes from anyone with a brain.

The claim and rationale for support for Ukraine against Russia is that Russian aggression will not stop at Ukraine. It will continue on to NATO and when the United States has to protect NATO allies, we will be at WWIII.

View attachment 67558508

Seriously can Liberals not even remember their own rationales for supporting all their wars anymore? Look at the map if it helps jog your memory.

So, why has the US now shifted from helping Ukraine to helping Russia?

If the goal is to keep Russia from encroaching on NATO countries.

 

[snakestretcher]

Europe is led by a host of fascists who can hardly be described as Democratic. They stiffle the free speech of their citizens under threat of imprisonment and use gestapo tactics such as branding political opposition as hate groups and using that as a means to keep them under constant investigation.

They might not be anywhere close to Putin but they're moving in his direction.

Congratulations; you just won the Gold Medal for the stupidest and most ignorant post of the week. It's in the mail.

 

[dairyair]

"security guarantees" lol

What?

 

[Allan]

I figured that.
But what are the actual figures?

In terms of absolute dollars:

USA $119 Bn (Plus $63 Bn in replenished stocks that stay here)
EU $138 Bn
UK $12.8 Bn

 

[trumptman]

So, why has the US now shifted from helping Ukraine to helping Russia?

If the goal is to keep Russia from encroaching on NATO countries.

This is proper foreign policy. This is not "I"m a teenager throwing a tantrum" policy.

Just because Dad said so doesn't mean he loves Mom or sister more than you. Just go clean your room and stop being an ass.

Just because Trump has expectations of Ukraine doesn't man he loves Russia.

Emotional manipulation isn't done by grownups. Trump wanted a mineral deal. The lack of deal and Zelensky losing his his mind doesn't mean Russia gave him a mineral deal or that now he "loves Putin."

Math is real. The numbers have to add up.

 

[snakestretcher]

I’m not a conspiracy theory guy, but that part of me thinks that Trump and musk are actively working to weaken the US directly for Russia’s benefit. For what exactly will be revealed by history.

Money, is for what Henry. All this talk about peace became meaningless the moment Trump discovered that he could extort Ukraine and make a 'deal' to enrich both himself and America, at Ukraine's expense. Trump isn't interested in peace and neither is his good friend, Vlad the Invader. The pair of them are two-faced, conniving, self-interested lying bastards.

 

[dairyair]

He's been involved and had agreed to the mineral deal. He then arrived in Washington with a completely different agenda.

What changed in his agenda?

 

[noonereal]

This is proper foreign policy. This is not "I"m a teenager throwing a tantrum" policy.

Just because Dad said so doesn't mean he loves Mom or sister more than you. Just go clean your room and stop being an ass.

Just because Trump has expectations of Ukraine doesn't man he loves Russia.

Emotional manipulation isn't done by grownups. Trump wanted a mineral deal. The lack of deal and Zelensky losing his his mind doesn't mean Russia gave him a mineral deal or that now he "loves Putin."

Math is real. The numbers have to add up.

Extremely ignorant post.
I would not know where to begin.

 

[exoplanet]

In the context of the post WW2 global order, sure. The problem is Europe's always had a problem working together well, and even under the EU there are always issues between the member countries on this kind of larger strategy. What doesn't help the EU is they are not the military machine the US is, and scaling up to fill that void isn't going to happen overnight. The other factor here is what they can agree upon in actual support for Ukraine, and that will be determined once we're past the rhetoric phase we're in right now.

Well, the pressure is on right now. Trump has been the biggest change since the end of the Cold War. Now Europe is fighting a very similar struggle.

The biggest issue is that it's not just Trump. America can't be trusted anymore. Even if a rational US President served next, who knows when the next Trump will be elected? Decades of reliability and trust have been flushed down the toilet.

America has no real allies anymore. Just mercenary contracts and rivals.

 

[trumptman]

Extremely ignorant post.
I would not know where to begin.

You're clueless.