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Do you support "Ghost Guns"?

What is your view on ghost guns?

  • Support, but background check should be required

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Support, but serial numbers to be required.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    38
How about if we allow gun laws to followed, instead of creating ways for people to skirt the rules?

Ghost guns don't skirt the rules. They specifically follow the rules. Biden is unilaterally changing the rules, like he's the king or something.
 
The only entity skirting the rules here is the ATF, in administratively changing the definition of "firearm" to include 80% receivers.
To follow the law is to treat these receivers as.... nothing. They're literally chunks of metal that resemble a firearm.
More like, people want to avoid going through the typical process to own guns.
 
Is that an absolute statement or a general statement? I don't live in Pennsylvania, but I assume, there are gun laws in the state. You seem to be implies that any regulation on guns is unconstitutional.
It's a quote right from the PA Constitution.
 
Watch the video here for more details.

The Supreme Court is going to review if the Biden Administration / ATF has the authority to regulate ghost guns. For those of you who don't know, ghost guns are guns that can be made from a kit and do not have serial numbers on them. The Biden Administration wanted people who purpose ghost gun kits to get a background check AND have a serial number on them.

What is your view on ghost guns?



Well first there's no such thing as ghost guns. There's guns with no serial number they're just normal guns. The only reason for a law requiring serial numbers is so the ATF can travel out back to someone who didn't commit a crime and enact their fascism on that
person.

ATF should have absolutely no authority at all it isn't elected it isn't beholden to the people so it is a fascist organization.

If you can't trace guns too bad people shouldn't have to lose their rights because the ATF is incompetent.
 
This is absolute bullsht!

"On Thursday, the Justice Department will submit a new 466-page regulation to the Federal Register outlining that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives will require anyone “engaged in the business” of selling guns at a profit to register as a federally licensed firearms dealer and run background criminal and mental health checks on buyers."

466 pages? WTF? Who knows what else is in those 466 pages?


There is no "gun show loophole." This is a myth raised by the (incompetent) far left without ever going to a gun show. Every transaction MUST be sent to an FFL holder who performs a background check before you can take possession of a gun purchased at a gun show.

I have guns I've bought (and been given) over the years as investments. The M-1 I bought from the Army 35+ years ago for $175.00, I won't part with for less than $1400..00. The rifle given to me by my father for my birthday 51 years ago, I will not part with for a penny less than $2500.00 (if I'd part with it at all). The list goes on...

This is just another attempt by the Biden admin. to continue to restrict the 2nd. Amendment rights of the people.



FJB
 

Do you support "Ghost Guns"?

Yes, yes I do!

Just because we are dead does not mean we should lose our God give Second Amendment Right.
 

Do you support "Ghost Guns"?

Yes, yes I do!

Just because we are dead does not mean we should lose our God give Second Amendment Right.
Huh?
 
More like, people want to avoid going through the typical process to own guns.
You can only reach this conclusion if you choose to not understand the issue here.
 
They do indeed skirt the rules.
They don't.
The rules say you can build a gun, w/o a serial number, for personal use.
The rules say everything in thee "kits" is unregulated by federal law because nothing in the kit is a firearm
 
I'm not sure that I support them completely, but at the very least they should definitely only sold the same way any other firearm is, background checks and serial numbers. I support being able to sell parts for weapons, but we have gun laws such as registration and background checks in place for good reason, so being okay with circumventing those laws is not okay. I don't know how to ensure that background checks and serial numbers are on those parts in a way that would meet the laws for those things on an already assembled gun when purchased.
 
They do indeed skirt the rules.
No...they dont...

a license is not required to make a firearm solely for personal use. However, a license is required to manufacture firearms for sale or distribution. The law prohibits a person from assembling a non–sporting semiautomatic rifle or shotgun from 10 or more imported parts, as well as firearms that cannot be detected by metal detectors or x–ray machines. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and advance approval by ATF.
[18 U.S.C. 922(o), (p) and (r); 26 U.S.C. 5822; 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]


Things to Consider​

  • Individuals who make their own firearms may use a 3D printing process or any other process, as long as the firearm is “detectable” as defined in the Gun Control Act. You do not have to add a serial number or register the PMF if you are not engaged in the business of making firearms for livelihood or profit.
  • Federal firearm licensees must mark PMFs with a unique serial number within seven days or prior to disposition, whichever is sooner.
  • The possession of firearm silencers, destructive devices, and machine gun conversion devices (MCDs) can result in legal action.
    • Firearm silencers are legal on a state-by-state basis for hunting only. Review the relevant laws in your state of residence before purchasing a silencer.
    • Destructive devices (e.g., bombs, grenades and missiles) and machine gun conversion devices (e.g., Glock switches, drop in auto sears and force reset triggers) are illegal to possess under federal law. Possession of these prohibited devices can result in a prison sentence up to 10 years
  • If you are in possession of a prohibited device, contact your local ATF Field Office for further guidance on how you may discard the devices.
 
What is your view on ghost guns?
I don't see any reason to outlaw them. But if the government requires people who build them to stamp them with serial numbers so they can be traced, that sounds okay.


2nd amendment violation? What does this have to do with forming militias?
I agree that requiring a serial number does not violate the Second Amendment.

But the Second Amendment is about a lot more than just forming militias. There's also something there about keeping and bearing arms.


Should be noted that the word “gun” doesn’t exist in the 2nd amendment. The amendment is about forming militias.
The term "arms" is there. Guns are arms.


I am not sure if I understand why it is so hard for people to get a background check
When the background check system was created, the Democrats were concerned that if ordinary people could call in a background check it would be a massive invasion of privacy because people would start calling in background checks on anyone they were interested in, so they limited the background check system to licensed gun dealers.


Ghost guns feel like bearer bonds to me: Purely designed for criminals.
Not at all. Some people like to build their own stuff and they are good at it.


They want to make their own gun, so they don't have to go through governmental tape.
Not necessarily. They may just enjoy making stuff themselves.

There are people who load their own ammo as well.


These are essentially bearer bonds of the gun world. I fully support the 2nd amendment (ability to form militias) and the right own guns. I just ask you go through a regulatory process.
I've no objection to fair regulation.


I have read over the 2nd amendment over 100 times. Firearms and guns do not exist in the 2nd amendment.
That is incorrect. They count as arms.


The amendment is not specifically about guns.
True, but they are among the arms that are covered.


It clearly states that people have the right to form militias and those militias to be armed.
That is incorrect. It doesn't talk of the right of militias or militiamen to be armed.

It talks of the right of the people to be armed.


The amendment does not say about individual right, but about collective.
This term "collective right" is a nonsense term that no one can even define. Saying that a right is "collective" doesn't appear to mean anything at all.


More over, it doesn’t say the government cannot regulate the sale of guns or ammo.
It says that the government cannot violate people's right to have those guns and ammo.


Why do you skip over the beginning?
The first part of the Second Amendment is not really relevant to the subject of the thread.


The first part of the amendment talks about militias being necessary to secure. That's relevant because, it allows the second part of the amendment to allow people to be armed for those militias.
That is incorrect. The second part of the Second Amendment does not need any help from the first half.

The second half of the Second Amendment protects people's right to be armed just fine all by itself.


Is people singular or plural?
The answer is plural. Person is singular.
No where does it say "individuals have the right to keep and bare Arms". It says PEOPLE.
Individuals are people.


What comes before "the people" is the value of militias. I guess, you can argue, "Well, it was poorly written".
It was written just fine.


That's why it was more intended as a plural than a singular.
Well, it does protect everyone's rights, and not just the rights of a single person.


But I do agree, the 2nd amendment does grant individuals the ability to purchase firearms.
Actually it protects a preexisting right. It does not grant anything.
 
Just a PSA reminder that the Supreme Court has, over the last 16 years, redefined the 2nd Amendment to conform with their right wing mythology.
Completely untrue. All they've done is start to uphold part of the Second Amendment.


There is no 2nd Amendment individual right to firearms ownership, or at least there wasn't until Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, and Alito deliberately ****ed things up,
That is incorrect. People have had the right to keep and bear arms for thousands of years now. And the Second Amendment protects that right.


I know few will agree - I don't care. You own a gun, any and all should be registered in a centralized database. I'd propose a modest fine for failure to obey to the letter of the law for regular guns, but for homemade guns, I'd propose criminal penalties, including incarceration. Making a gun should be treated the same as making a bomb.
That would be unconstitutional. People have the right to make guns.


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Once smart guns emerge, I think that should be the only gun available to sell.
Fine, so long as that is also the only gun available to the police and military as well.


These are amazing and will definitely save lives. You can lock it from your phone while you're away, so your kids can't shoot themselves. You can render it useless to a thief, and locate it.
I don't see why anyone would object to this technology once it's perfected.
The gun control crew has already started to oppose smart guns. I gave you a link to that the other day.


Indeed! They suck, so why would you make one unless you just wanted to go undetected?
Nonsense. They work perfectly fine if you build them well.


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We're talking about ghost guns / gun kits, not specifics such as "aftermarket barrels".
A ghost gun is not going to fire very many bullets you you don't buy a barrel for it.


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This is absolute bullsht!
"On Thursday, the Justice Department will submit a new 466-page regulation to the Federal Register outlining that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives will require anyone “engaged in the business” of selling guns at a profit to register as a federally licensed firearms dealer and run background criminal and mental health checks on buyers."
Clearly unconstitutional.


This is just another attempt by the Biden admin. to continue to restrict the 2nd. Amendment rights of the people.
Yep.
 
If you are legal to own a gun BUY ONE legitimately.
We're not serfs and you aren't our lord. We'll do as we please.


If you circumvent the law, there's a f-ing problem now, isn't there?
Building your own gun doesn't circumvent the law.


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It seems obvious that they only intended to enshrine in writing that the federal government would not disarm the states, not that they would guarantee guns to every individual.
Their wording is pretty clear about protecting the right to keep and bear arms.


Kits seem intended to circumvent the laws.
No they don't.


Set aside guns, let’s imagine someone sold the ingredients to really, really easily make meth. It seems obvious that it should not be legal. Whereas, if someone sold ingredients that could only with great difficulty make meth, it becomes much less clear.
Sudafed should be illegal?


Can we imagine anyone buying one of those kits for any purpose other than resell/building a gun? If not, I imagine it ought to be treated a lot like the final product.
Nothing wrong with treating it like the final product. But do note that said final product is perfectly legal.



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Why would anyone want to make their own gun?
Building your own stuff can be quite satisfying.


Just buy them premade
We're not serfs and you aren't our lord. We'll do as we please.


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The only reason for a "ghost gun" is for something illegal.
That is incorrect. Ghost guns are used for hunting, self defense, and competition sport shooting.


It's like guns made from materials other than metal. So it can be used illegally.
Guns with no metal parts can barely function as a gun. They are the stuff of fiction.


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The courts have ruled that the federal and state government can regulate the gun industry.
That doesn't make it okay for the government to violate people's rights.


Most people who participated in the poll, believe ghost guns should be banned period.
The Constitution overrules their views.


How about if we allow gun laws to followed, instead of creating ways for people to skirt the rules?
Complying with rules is not skirting rules.


They do indeed skirt the rules.
No they don't. They comply with the rules.
 
We're not serfs and you aren't our lord. We'll do as we please.



Building your own gun doesn't circumvent the law.


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Their wording is pretty clear about protecting the right to keep and bear arms.



No they don't.



Sudafed should be illegal?



Nothing wrong with treating it like the final product. But do note that said final product is perfectly legal.



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Building your own stuff can be quite satisfying.



We're not serfs and you aren't our lord. We'll do as we please.


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That is incorrect. Ghost guns are used for hunting, self defense, and competition sport shooting.



Guns with no metal parts can barely function as a gun. They are the stuff of fiction.


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That doesn't make it okay for the government to violate people's rights.



The Constitution overrules their views.



Complying with rules is not skirting rules.



No they don't. They comply with the rules.
:rolleyes: :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:🤭
 
We're not serfs and you aren't our lord. We'll do as we please.



Building your own gun doesn't circumvent the law.


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Their wording is pretty clear about protecting the right to keep and bear arms.



No they don't.



Sudafed should be illegal?



Nothing wrong with treating it like the final product. But do note that said final product is perfectly legal.



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Building your own stuff can be quite satisfying.



We're not serfs and you aren't our lord. We'll do as we please.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is incorrect. Ghost guns are used for hunting, self defense, and competition sport shooting.



Guns with no metal parts can barely function as a gun. They are the stuff of fiction.


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That doesn't make it okay for the government to violate people's rights.



The Constitution overrules their views.



Complying with rules is not skirting rules.



No they don't. They comply with the rules.
I stand by all I said. Hunters don't use "ghost guns", my guns I have for self defense are not "ghost guns" nor any of my friends and neighbors. Competition shooting? Now you're just making shit up.
 
I stand by all I said. Hunters don't use "ghost guns", my guns I have for self defense are not "ghost guns" nor any of my friends and neighbors. Competition shooting? Now you're just making shit up.
I have built both handguns and rifles. You could not distinguish them from a store bought handgun or rifle and they are indeed used for sport and self defense. No serial numbers needed. they arent being manufactured for resale. They are in every way a 'ghost gun'.
 
I stand by all I said.
That doesn't change the fact that what you said is incorrect.


Hunters don't use "ghost guns",
Yes they do.


my guns I have for self defense are not "ghost guns" nor any of my friends and neighbors.
That does not change the fact that some people do use ghost guns for self defense.


Competition shooting? Now you're just making shit up.
That is incorrect. Everything I say is true. That is why no one can point out any errors in my posts.
 
I stand by all I said. Hunters don't use "ghost guns"
You have no idea of this is true or not -- and even then, it doesn't matter.
, my guns I have for self defense are not "ghost guns" nor any of my friends and neighbors.
This doesn't matter in the slightest.
Competition shooting? Now you're just making shit up.
Your ignorance is not a counterargument.
 
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