Do the rich pay enough?[W: 837] (1 Viewer)

[UtahBill]

brain dead sophistry in that post. The shareholder owns the profits and the government taxes them twice

govt makes the rules, you don't like them, buy a few congressmen and get the rules changed...

 

[TurtleDude]

again, you are smarter than that.....it isn't the same entity being taxed....

its the same pot of money being taxed twice and there are not two exchanges for value

 

[UtahBill]

stop lying, the billionaire pays property taxes, sales taxes income taxes at the state level and most of all death taxes and he pays a higher rate on every tax that is progressive

the secretary is exempt from property tax? sales tax? etc.?

I am in favor of a lower corporate tax as it will probably stimulate the economy, but not a lower personal tax...it is already too low, bought and paid for by the idle rich.....(no, not all rich are idle)

 

[UtahBill]

sixty five percent over 150K

I wonder what your lifespan would be if you could actually impose that?

What you are saying is that you are a control freak who wants to run peoples' lives.

yeah, 65 is too much.....just go back to what we had before Bush Jr. applied his intellect to our economy....

 

[UtahBill]

yeah you want to use rules to take other peoples' gold

term limitations will help, it takes most congressman more than one term to figure out how to steal from the public purse...

 

[UtahBill]

your analogies are idiotic. the fact remains your consistency is only a one way street-you consistently support anything that makes the rich pay more taxes. and you ignore the fact that the tax code that you worship so much when it makes me pay 35 cents on every next dollar I make versus far less for you, is the same tax code you whine about when lots of my income is only taxed 15% (even though it has already been taxed 35% in many cases or subject to inflation and risk that the salary of someone paid with our tax dollars does not face)

but YOU didn't pay the 35%, the corporation did....

 

[TurtleDude]

the secretary is exempt from property tax? sales tax? etc.?

I am in favor of a lower corporate tax as it will probably stimulate the economy, but not a lower personal tax...it is already too low, bought and paid for by the idle rich.....(no, not all rich are idle)

the secretary gets the same value from government and pays one thousandth the amount of taxes

she gets the deal not him

idle rich-a term that the envious and the ne'er do wells tend to use

 

[UtahBill]

Its funny

if the rich hire overseas labor the liberals whine about outsourcing. If we keep the jobs here, the liberals whine that we are exploiting people who are old enough to enter into contracts as adults

when educated men conspire to enrich themelves by manipulating wages, they should stop claiming to be christians...
that goes for unions as well, just to be fair....
Liberals and conservatives have lost jobs due to investor demands for high short term gains.

 

[TurtleDude]

but YOU didn't pay the 35%, the corporation did....

and that means the owners did. That is the dishonesty I get from the tax hike crowd. they pretend that corporate profit taxes don't affect the owners. that is complete crap

and tell me what does the government do to earn two cuts at the same pile of money

its almost as bad as if your employer deposits money into a bank and the bank cuts you a check for your salary and the government decides to take a cut of that money from the bank and another cut of it when you get your check

 

[TurtleDude]

when educated men conspire to enrich themelves by manipulating wages, they should stop claiming to be christians...
that goes for unions as well, just to be fair....
Liberals and conservatives have lost jobs due to investor demands for high short term gains.

fortunately I don't labor under that delusional myth so you need to find a better argument. I also find populism one of the most putrid philosophies going. Its a savage combination of class envy and ignorance and paranoia rolled into one big whining ball

 

[haymarket]

your analogies are idiotic. the fact remains your consistency is only a one way street-you consistently support anything that makes the rich pay more taxes. and you ignore the fact that the tax code that you worship so much when it makes me pay 35 cents on every next dollar I make versus far less for you, is the same tax code you whine about when lots of my income is only taxed 15% (even though it has already been taxed 35% in many cases or subject to inflation and risk that the salary of someone paid with our tax dollars does not face)

Actually - the comparison WAS YOURS. You were the one who claimed that the three different sources of money were as different "as apples and oranges".

So lets see you prove it. I can tell 100 times out of 100 times the difference between a pile of apples and a pile of oranges. can you tell five times out of five times the differences between the three piles of money from wages, investments and inheritance.

After all Turtle, in your own words they are as different as apples and oranges.

And I see you still have not taken out your old law books from that Yule law school to rediscover the wonders of the corporation as a person with distinct legal obligations.

Its almost as if you have a willful case of intentional blindness that prohibits you for accepting that legal reality.

 

[haymarket]

and that means the owners did. That is the dishonesty I get from the tax hike crowd. they pretend that corporate profit taxes don't affect the owners. that is complete crap

and tell me what does the government do to earn two cuts at the same pile of money

You must have not taken that particular class in law school when they explained the distinct legal obligations of corporations as persons.

Government gets hundreds of cuts at the same pile of money. Is this new to you? Every time it changes ownership, government has the opportunity to tax it again and again and again and again.

 

[UtahBill]

and that means the owners did. That is the dishonesty I get from the tax hike crowd. they pretend that corporate profit taxes don't affect the owners. that is complete crap

and tell me what does the government do to earn two cuts at the same pile of money

its almost as bad as if your employer deposits money into a bank and the bank cuts you a check for your salary and the government decides to take a cut of that money from the bank and another cut of it when you get your check

do the math....
$1000 profit, if no corporate tax, investors pay $150 total tax....they keep $850.
I pay about 25% after all adjustments to income so I would pay $250 on the same income which leaves me $750, less than you.
so we should eliminate the corporate tax.....and the low rates on investment income, and both pay the same.
I suggest 20%....for everyone.....
I would pay a little less, you would pay a little more.

It's only fair, you didn't have to leave your house to "earn" that income.

You don't even have to pay Payroll tax on that income.....

of course, minimum wage would have to go up so the lower income crowd won't have to live on food stamps.....
think of the savings if we didn't have to have all those programs to help the poor...

 

[TurtleDude]

Actually - the comparison WAS YOURS. You were the one who claimed that the three different sources of money were as different "as apples and oranges".

So lets see you prove it. I can tell 100 times out of 100 times the difference between a pile of apples and a pile of oranges. can you tell five times out of five times the differences between the three piles of money from wages, investments and inheritance.

After all Turtle, in your own words they are as different as apples and oranges.

And I see you still have not taken out your old law books from that Yule law school to rediscover the wonders of the corporation as a person with distinct legal obligations.

Its almost as if you have a willful case of intentional blindness that prohibits you for accepting that legal reality.

there are reasons why they are treated differently. You don't seem to understand those reasons. and if you want to rely on legal reality, the legal reality is that investment income is taxed at a less punitive rate for us who are the most productive tax payers

 

[UtahBill]

fortunately I don't labor under that delusional myth so you need to find a better argument. I also find populism one of the most putrid philosophies going. Its a savage combination of class envy and ignorance and paranoia rolled into one big whining ball

you are the whiner here....I have more than enough to meet all of my needs and wants...I don't measure success by what I have, but what I don't need. It is the insecure among us who have to keep all those yardsticks handy...

 

[TurtleDude]

You must have not taken that particular class in law school when they explained the distinct legal obligations of corporations as persons.

Government gets hundreds of cuts at the same pile of money. Is this new to you? Every time it changes ownership, government has the opportunity to tax it again and again and again and again.

You seem to confuse things-I know what the law says and i believe it is unjust-like many laws that were passed to appease the parasites in government and the envious they cater to

 

[UtahBill]

there are reasons why they are treated differently. You don't seem to understand those reasons. and if you want to rely on legal reality, the legal reality is that investment income is taxed at a less punitive rate for us who are the most productive tax payers

productive, again? Did you produce something?

 

[TurtleDude]

you are the whiner here....I have more than enough to meet all of my needs and wants...I don't measure success by what I have, but what I don't need. It is the insecure among us who have to keep all those yardsticks handy...

You are the one thinking its right for the government to take more from others-not me. If you were secure you wouldn't be howling that others should pay more taxes or justifying why the government should take more from someone else. Its populist paranoia at its worst

 

[UtahBill]

You seem to confuse things-I know what the law says and i believe it is unjust-like many laws that were passed to appease the parasites in government and the envious they cater to

the parasites in govt are the politicians, and they cater to whoever pays the most....surely the poor can't afford to buy congressmen..

 

[TurtleDude]

productive, again? Did you produce something?

again please read-us in the top one percent pay 40% of the income taxes, we are the most productive tax payers

 

[TurtleDude]

the parasites in govt are the politicians, and they cater to whoever pays the most....surely the poor can't afford to buy congressmen..

the poor are pawns of the politicians and the interest groups that use them for their own power. However, the most important thing to politicians are the votes that get them power and office

 

[beerftw]

do the math....
$1000 profit, if no corporate tax, investors pay $150 total tax....they keep $850.
I pay about 25% after all adjustments to income so I would pay $250 on the same income which leaves me $750, less than you.
so we should eliminate the corporate tax.....and the low rates on investment income, and both pay the same.
I suggest 20%....for everyone.....
I would pay a little less, you would pay a little more.

It's only fair, you didn't have to leave your house to "earn" that income.

You don't even have to pay Payroll tax on that income.....

of course, minimum wage would have to go up so the lower income crowd won't have to live on food stamps.....
think of the savings if we didn't have to have all those programs to help the poor...

you need to realize that capitol gains is taxed less because of the high risk,there is always a high risk you could lose everything playing the market,but playing the market and investing in companies keeps companies going.

when you recieve a paycheck,you arent risking anything,you didnt have to spend 100k on the hopes of getting a 200k return.this is why capital gains is taxed less,because there is no certanty within playing the market,there is no guaranteed profit to be made,a guy who makes 1 mil one daymay be losing 600k the next day.how can you justify increasing taxes on a gamble that fuels the economy vs people who dont gamble anything?

 

[TurtleDude]

do the math....
$1000 profit, if no corporate tax, investors pay $150 total tax....they keep $850.
I pay about 25% after all adjustments to income so I would pay $250 on the same income which leaves me $750, less than you.
so we should eliminate the corporate tax.....and the low rates on investment income, and both pay the same.
I suggest 20%....for everyone.....
I would pay a little less, you would pay a little more.

It's only fair, you didn't have to leave your house to "earn" that income.

You don't even have to pay Payroll tax on that income.....

of course, minimum wage would have to go up so the lower income crowd won't have to live on food stamps.....
think of the savings if we didn't have to have all those programs to help the poor...

Its not the same type of income so your claim is specious.

 

[Gibberish]

A large part of current political discussion seems to revolve around the question of whether or not the rich are paying their "fair share" of taxes.

Regardless of political ideology or opinion, the facts seem to indicate that the wealthy (of which I am not a part) are paying far more than their fair share. The facts also seem to indicate that the richest of American's are not greedy at all.

I would be interested to know what factual information people use to argue that the rich don't pay enough. (Factual means based on accurate data, not feelings or opinions.)

What data is there to support the liberal mantra that the rich are not paying their fair share?

The only reason there is question is because the rich pay less on income tax. The rich do a horrible job explaining how the actually contribute more percent wise then the middle-class and poor. The rich paying 15-20% on income tax but an additional 20% on donations/contributions so their money can go to specific area's of support rather then crap like medicare and social security.

The rich, at least most, pay 35-45% of their income to taxes and contributions. The problem is everyone focuses on just the government forced taxes only.

My opinion is everyone should have the option to choose what organizations they want to participate in.

 

[Phoenix]

I don't like the assertion that capital gains money has already been taxed. Technically it hasn't. If you invested $100 and take out a $100 you aren't taxed. It only if you earn NEW money (hence capital GAIN) that you get taxed. That money hasn't been taxed yet. Not that it matters.
The inheritance tax is complete bull**** and should be eliminated. THAT is taxing money twice and amounts to give a person the big bahooka on the way out.