Canada to recognize Palestinian State

[MAGAnificent]

You and the rest of MAGA are overlooking the fact that Carney repeatedly and forcefully emphasized that Hamas must immediately release the hostages, must disarm and cannot have any role ever in the governance of a Palestinian state.

Not the point. This is not just about Hamas. The Palestinians were given the concept of a two-state solution with the UN partition plan in 1947. Israel in 1948 begrudgingly accepted it. The Palestinians have never accepted Israel's right to exist. Until that occurs, any recognition of a Palestinian state, even with conditions, is simply rewarding decades of terrorism against the state of Israel.

 

[Gozaburo]

Not the point. This is not just about Hamas. The Palestinians were given the concept of a two-state solution with the UN partition plan in 1947. Israel in 1948 begrudgingly accepted it.

I'm going to kick your door down, claim 75% of your house is mine and then graciously offer that we split it 50/50, although I retain my right to ask for more later. Oh and if you don't agree I might get violent.

Deal?

 

[MAGAnificent]

It isn't false. The only way you get civilian casualties like this is if you've just got no regard for human life when you drop bombs, which is a choice, or if you're intentionally targeting civilian populations with precision bombs, which is also a choice. This doesn't even get into the subject of aid corridors being fully controlled by the Israelis and the consequent famine as a result.

Silly response. Perhaps if Hamas did not operate amongst civilians, build a network of tunnels under civilians, hide massive quantities of weapons, bombs, under hospitals, use civilians as human shields Israel could be much more precise. And the suggestion that Israel is intentionally targeting civilians is utter nonsense.

 

[MAGAnificent]

I'm going to kick your door down, claim 75% of your house is mine and then graciously offer that we split it 50/50, although I retain my right to ask for more later. Oh and if you don't agree I might get violent.

Deal?

Nonsensical response.

 

[Gozaburo]

Silly response. Perhaps if Hamas did not operate amongst civilians, build a network of tunnels under civilians, hide massive quantities of weapons, bombs, under hospitals, use civilians as human shields Israel could be much more precise. And the suggestion that Israel is intentionally targeting civilians is utter nonsense.

Mostly bullshit propaganda you use to justify an ethnic cleansing. I do take at least some level of comfort (where there is comfort to be found) that people are finally beginning to see just how evil and cruel the regime in Israel is.

Nonsensical response.

How so? When I create an analogue to your own life that makes you uncomfortable? It's super easy to advocate for a psychopathic foreign policy when its not your kids or grand kids getting their heads blown off for eating dirty rice off of the floor.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Mostly bullshit propaganda you use to justify an ethnic cleansing. I do take at least some level of comfort (where there is comfort to be found) that people are finally beginning to see just how evil and cruel the regime in Israel is.

Evil and cruel was the Hamas attack on Israel on 10/7/23 Roughly 1200 were killed, women raped, kidnapped, even babies were beheaded.

How so? When I create an analogue to your own life that makes you uncomfortable? It's super easy to advocate for a psychopathic foreign policy when its not your kids or grand kids getting their heads blown off for eating dirty rice off of the floor.

Perhaps in a future discussion, you try to make a case for your point of view intelligently rather than simply ranting utter nonsense.

 

[Perotista]

Except that’s blatantly untrue, as Israel’s continued attacks on Palestinian civilians in the West Bank shows.

Israel was killing Palestinian civilians well before October 7th.

True or not about the West Bank, there is a huge difference. The West Bank is not ruled by Hamas, the West Bank didn’t attack Israel with rockets and take hostages. The West Bank doesn’t correlate at all with Hamas ruled Gaza strip. There isn’t a connection at all. This is comparing apples to oranges. No connection. Are you saying it isn’t true that the Hamas Ruled government of the Gaza Strip didn’t attack Israel and take hostages? Is that the untrue part.

 

[Gozaburo]

Evil and cruel was the Hamas attack on Israel on 10/7/23 Roughly 1200 were killed, women raped, kidnapped, even babies were beheaded.

There's no concrete proof for the bolded, especially the latter. This is atrocity propaganda to justify the mass slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent civilians.

Perhaps in a future discussion, you try to make a case for your point of view intelligently rather than simply ranting utter nonsense.

I think it's interesting that you think a "case" needs to be made in favor of not mass slaughtering women and children. Obviously people with this viewpoint don't deserve a serious conversation or respect.

 

[MAGAnificent]

There's no concrete proof for the bolded, especially the latter.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!

I think it's interesting that you think a "case" needs to be made in favor of not mass slaughtering women and children.

All of that blood is on the hands of Hamas, not Israel.

Obviously people with this viewpoint don't deserve a serious conversation or respect.

On the other hand, I do not take viewpoints tinged with antisemitism seriously or give them respect.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

What the Iranians experienced at the hands of the State on Israel's military earlier this year proves my point. The State of Israel is the supreme regional military power of the Middle East and Israel is in no existential danger from any other power in the Middle East.

That does not change the reality that Israel is being attacked and are defending themselves.

This is a war of expansion not a war of survival.

That is incorrect. Israel is waging a just war of self defense against the Palestinians' illegal war of aggression.

The State of Israel's behaviour is now far, far worse than Apartheid South Africa's ever was in the last century

Antisemitism.

Other states and individual people should refuse to do any business with the State of Israel and should impose crippling sanctions and boycotts upon it and on the US for supporting it militarily,

Go ahead and cut yourselves off from us. Don't expect us to come to your rescue if Russia invades Western Europe though. We'll be busy washing our hair that day.

until the Israeli people themselves throw out the Netanyahu-led Government and prosecute that government's political and military leaders for war crimes, crimes against humanity and now genocide too. Also Israeli influencers who have advocated for the forcible expulsion or mass killing of Palestinians should be prosecuted for supporting genocide.

This hate speech that you posted is really appalling. Falsely accusing Jews of committing imaginary atrocities is a staple of antisemitism, but falsely accusing them of genocide is beyond the pale of human decency.

Finally, the State of Israel's behaviour should be used as justification for the IAEA to start forcing the issue of inspecting and inventorying Israel's stock of nuclear weapons and longer-term sanctions should be imposed on this country until it becomes fully in compliance with IAEA demands for transparency.

That would be illegal. Any such use of force can be legally be defended against by the Israeli military with the support of the US.

The world needs to hobble the State of Israel's expansionist policies which are now utterly murderous and must punish the Government of the United States severely for its unquestioning support

Go ahead and cut yourselves off from us. Don't expect us to come to your rescue if Russia invades Western Europe though. We'll be busy washing our hair that day.

for a regime awash in war crimes, crimes against humanity and now genocide.

This hate speech that you posted is really appalling. Falsely accusing Jews of committing imaginary atrocities is a staple of antisemitism, but falsely accusing them of genocide is beyond the pale of human decency.

Their pocket books are the targets we should focus on and their economies should be made to suffer grievously.

Go ahead and cut yourselves off from us. Don't expect us to come to your rescue if Russia invades Western Europe though. We'll be busy washing our hair that day.

 

[Gozaburo]

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!

There isn't. The evidence people like Ben Shapiro posted during the initial days of the conflict was literally an AI generated photo of burnt brisket.

All of that blood is on the hands of Hamas, not Israel.

Just curious - were political partisans during WW2 responsible for Nazi atrocities committed against them? Do you understand that with this very same logic, you could argue that many of the Jews of WW2 "had it coming" because they resisted Nazi occupation as political partisans? As I've noted in a separate thread, this is actually a generous analogue because the political partisans of WW2 were far more violent than Hamas.

On the other hand, I do not take viewpoints tinged with antisemitism seriously or give them respect.

I'm not offended.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

They are in danger when it comes to Iran, but that is a danger entirely of Israel's own making.

Nonsense. Israel did not make Iran choose to be evil.

Most people believe that Israel kicked Iran's ass and taught them a lesson. They didn't.

Sure they did.

Yes, they bloodied Iran's nose and a goosed em good around the eye, but Iran stood up to Israel pretty well and landed some pretty solid punches of their own.

Punches maybe.

Solid... not really.

In fact it was Israel that was eager to end the war just as much Iran. Israel's air defenses were exposed for what they were. Sure, Israel can shoot down/intercept a lot of drones and some ballistic missiles, but not all of them when launched in waves. And Israel is so small both in terms of land and population (particularly when you factor that it must be an ethno-state for it to survive) that even a fraction of missiles getting through and hitting Israeli cities and military targets is going to hurt.

Sure Iran inflicted a little bit of pain. Nothing compared to the damage that Israel did however.

Israel has always been seeking a Greater Israel,

When you deny Israel's past peace offers, you justify Israel not bothering to make future peace offers.

In fact that's what they tried to do: decapitate Iran's leadership. It didn't work, though. Iran's leadership is still very much in control and Iran is more cohesive than they were before the strikes.

That is incorrect. They only tried to decapitate their military leadership.

They were pretty successful too by all reports.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Just curious - were political partisans during WW2 responsible for Nazi atrocities committed against them? Do you understand that with this very same logic, you could argue that many of the Jews of WW2 "had it coming" because they resisted Nazi occupation as political partisans? As I've noted in a separate thread, this is actually a generous analogue because the political partisans of WW2 were far more violent than Hamas.

I find it odd that you made that comparison considering that the Nazis and Hamas share the same goal, the eradication of the Jewish race.

 

[bomberfox]

True or not about the West Bank, there is a huge difference. The West Bank is not ruled by Hamas, the West Bank didn’t attack Israel with rockets and take hostages. The West Bank doesn’t correlate at all with Hamas ruled Gaza strip. There isn’t a connection at all. This is comparing apples to oranges. No connection. Are you saying it isn’t true that the Hamas Ruled government of the Gaza Strip didn’t attack Israel and take hostages? Is that the untrue part.

It shows that Israel is not going to keep their end of the bargain to end this war. The more the IDF and America allows the likes of Moshe Sharvit (they also aid and abet this project) to terrorize west bank palestinians, the less believable their claims they will allow gazan civilians to return.

 

[MAGAnificent]

It shows that Israel is not going to keep their end of the bargain to end this war. The more the IDF and America allows the likes of Moshe Sharvit (they also aid and abet this project) to terrorize west bank palestinians, the less believable their claims they will allow gazan civilians to return.

The war can end tomorrow if Hamas releases all hostages, returns the bodies of all Israeli victims and demilitarizes.

 

[bomberfox]

There isn't. The evidence people like Ben Shapiro posted during the initial days of the conflict was literally an AI generated photo of burnt brisket.



Just curious - were political partisans during WW2 responsible for Nazi atrocities committed against them? Do you understand that with this very same logic, you could argue that many of the Jews of WW2 "had it coming" because they resisted Nazi occupation as political partisans? As I've noted in a separate thread, this is actually a generous analogue because the political partisans of WW2 were far more violent than Hamas.



I'm not offended.

Its got “look what you made me do!” Written all over it.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

It doesn't exist for you but in just over a month from now the state of Palestine will exist for 149 countries in the world.

LOL!

Does Narnia exist for them too?

That substantially changes the dynamic as it means that Israel is carrying out a genocide in a neighboring sovereign nation.

This hate speech that you posted is really appalling. Falsely accusing Jews of committing imaginary atrocities is a staple of antisemitism, but falsely accusing them of genocide is beyond the pale of human decency.

Israel’s territorial ambitions will be a concern to most of the world's governments. What they will do about it remains to be seen but it's very clear that Israel’s approach is increasingly facing repudiation.

What they will do about it is whine piteously.

Next month Canada will recognize Palestine as a sovereign state.

How soon until they extend official recognition to Narnia?

Read Carney's statement or if that's too much trouble at least watch the video of his press conference announcement. You and the rest of MAGA are overlooking the fact that Carney repeatedly and forcefully emphasized that Hamas must immediately release the hostages, must disarm and cannot have any role ever in the governance of a Palestinian state.

What he didn't mention, however, is how he planned to force Hamas to comply with that.

Does he plan to withhold recognition of this imaginary Palestinian state until Hamas complies?

Does he plan to join with Israel in launching military operations against Hamas?

Does he plan to recognize the imaginary Palestinian state regardless, and then just never enforce his demands against Hamas?

 

[Gozaburo]

I find it odd that you made that comparison considering that the Nazis and Hamas share the same goal, the eradication of the Jewish race.

I'm comparing Nazis to Israel in this case, actually, and Eastern European partisans to Hamas. I'm asking a broader question about how we can delineate between "partisan" and "terrorist", which in this case I know you won't be able to do.

But I'm not surprised that flew over your head.

 

[Allan]

The Palestinians have never accepted Israel's right to exist. Until that occurs, any recognition of a Palestinian state, even with conditions, is simply rewarding decades of terrorism against the state of Israel.

You, @Perotista and the rest of the MAGAverse are missing the gene for reading comprehension.

Carney's statement includes this condition:

"Any path to lasting peace for Israel also requires a viable and stable Palestinian state, and one that recognizes Israel’s inalienable right to security and peace."

 

[Tigerace117]

True or not about the West Bank, there is a huge difference. The West Bank is not ruled by Hamas, the West Bank didn’t attack Israel with rockets and take hostages. The West Bank doesn’t correlate at all with Hamas ruled Gaza strip. There isn’t a connection at all. This is comparing apples to oranges. No connection. Are you saying it isn’t true that the Hamas Ruled government of the Gaza Strip didn’t attack Israel and take hostages? Is that the untrue part.

And yet Israel continues launching attacks against Palestinian civilians on a constant basis regardless, as well as trying to colonize Palestinian land there. Israel’s actions there demonstrate Hamas is nothing more than a convenient excuse for Israel doing what it was going to do anyway.

Israel doesn’t give a shit about “the hostages” and never did.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Carney's statement includes this condition:
"Any path to lasting peace for Israel also requires a viable and stable Palestinian state, and one that recognizes Israel’s inalienable right to security and peace."

His statement is lacking in details on how he will get the Palestinians to recognize Israel’s inalienable right to security and peace.

 

[Allan]

His statement is lacking in details on how he will get the Palestinians to recognize Israel’s inalienable right to security and peace.

Another one with reading comprehension challenges.

 

[MAGAnificent]

You, @Perotista and the rest of the MAGAverse are missing the gene for reading comprehension.

Carney's statement includes this condition:

"Any path to lasting peace for Israel also requires a viable and stable Palestinian state, and one that recognizes Israel’s inalienable right to security and peace."

I read the statement. You are still not getting the point. Politically it is still a reward for Hamas. They now think they accomplished something with the 10/7/23 attack on Israel. They still control the Gaza population, and they have no intention of accepting Israel's right to exist. Let me know if this ever changes in their charter.

 

[bomberfox]

That does not change the reality that Israel is being attacked and are defending themselves.



That is incorrect. Israel is waging a just war of self defense against the Palestinians' illegal war of aggression.



Antisemitism.



Go ahead and cut yourselves off from us. Don't expect us to come to your rescue if Russia invades Western Europe though. We'll be busy washing our hair that day.



This hate speech that you posted is really appalling. Falsely accusing Jews of committing imaginary atrocities is a staple of antisemitism, but falsely accusing them of genocide is beyond the pale of human decency.



That would be illegal. Any such use of force can be legally be defended against by the Israeli military with the support of the US.



Go ahead and cut yourselves off from us. Don't expect us to come to your rescue if Russia invades Western Europe though. We'll be busy washing our hair that day.



This hate speech that you posted is really appalling. Falsely accusing Jews of committing imaginary atrocities is a staple of antisemitism, but falsely accusing them of genocide is beyond the pale of human decency.



Go ahead and cut yourselves off from us. Don't expect us to come to your rescue if Russia invades Western Europe though. We'll be busy washing our hair that day.

Nobody needs your personal rescue. People that get funded to the hilt think there are no consequences for their actions. Someday that will end. What we ask for is pretty simple really. Netanyahu and his accomplices will be arrested as soon as they come out of their hidey holes.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

It isn't false. The only way you get civilian casualties like this is if you've just got no regard for human life when you drop bombs, which is a choice, or if you're intentionally targeting civilian populations with precision bombs, which is also a choice.

Fake news. The civilian casualties in Gaza have been pretty low.

This doesn't even get into the subject of aid corridors being fully controlled by the Israelis and the consequent famine as a result.

If the Palestinians are hungry then they should release the hostages.

I'm going to kick your door down, claim 75% of your house is mine and then graciously offer that we split it 50/50, although I retain my right to ask for more later. Oh and if you don't agree I might get violent.
Deal?

Maybe the Palestinians shouldn't have invaded and settled in someone else's ancestral homeland.

There's no concrete proof for the bolded,

Yes there is. The rapes have been very well documented.

This is atrocity propaganda

Do you deny the Holocaust too?

to justify the mass slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent civilians.

Fake news. No such slaughter.

Just curious - were political partisans during WW2 responsible for Nazi atrocities committed against them? Do you understand that with this very same logic, you could argue that many of the Jews of WW2 "had it coming" because they resisted Nazi occupation as political partisans? As I've noted in a separate thread, this is actually a generous analogue because the political partisans of WW2 were far more violent than Hamas.

The Palestinians are not resisting anything. The Palestinians are the aggressors.

I'm comparing Nazis to Israel in this case, actually, and Eastern European partisans to Hamas.

Which makes your comparison totally bogus, as the Palestinians are the aggressors.

I'm asking a broader question about how we can delineate between "partisan" and "terrorist", which in this case I know you won't be able to do.

I am not the one you directed that question to, but I can answer it. Terrorists deliberately target civilians.